How does academic dishonesty impact admission?

<p>My DS was accused for violating academic honesty policy in his 10th grade.
The reason was that he recalled the answers from a test and passed them to another student in a later class. He signed a paper acknowledging he violated the policy. No written statement saying he was under probation. No suspension or other other penalties. He was told the record will be gone from his file a year later.</p>

<p>Anyway, he has done great work in his HS life other than that. By comparing the stats posted here, he seems have a big chance to be admitted in top schools if he didn't have that record. If he answers Yes for the question on common app form about if he ever did anything resulted in a disciplinary action, will that put him absolutely out of the top 10 (US News ranking) colleges, or just reduce his strength a little?</p>

<p>I have read many similar questions here, but never saw see any real case confirming the impact in admission. Should your kids were in similar situation, could you share your experience and application strategy with me?
You can PM me if you don't want to post your experience publicly.</p>

<p>Sounds like there was no disciplinary action, hence no need to check “yes” on Common App. </p>

<p>The best course of action is probably to talk to his guidance counselor and make sure that you are both checking the same box, preferably “no.” (The same question appears on the school report/counselor recommendation form too.) While you are at it, double-check that the record really is gone from his file.</p>

<p>We thought it was not at the disciplinary action level. Earlier this week, my S was confirming with GC if she would check it on the school report. She said the record was gone, but it “ever” happened. The form has a phrase of “not limited to” though the penalty he received was not “probation” or “suspension”. :-(</p>

<p>How can he convince the GC to change her mind?</p>

<p>It “ever” happened? What does that mean? Is she checking the box or not?</p>

<p>I know of a kid who received a suspension for cheating on a test (apparently giving answers to another kid.) I will assume he answered the question honestly on the common app. He wound up at one of the top LACs. </p>

<p>For what its worth.</p>

<p>We went through this type of scenario with our son. After applications had been submitted but before acceptances came out, son and a few friends decided one day to leave campus for lunch. The school had just stopped permitting seniors to leave campus for the first time in the school’s history. The boys were a little upset about this and broke the rule and got in-school suspension. The GC and the school were insistent that they had to notify the colleges, though they said they would make it a point to say he had never, in the 11 years he was at the school, had another disciplinary action against him. We will never know if this had an impact on his acceptances. He was WL or rejected at most of his reaches. There were at least one school that we were surprised he didn’t get into (WL) because it was within his reach. The GC claims it shouldn’t have made a difference.</p>

<p>His GC said that if they don’t report these things and the college find out, it will impact how the colleges view future applications from the HS. I guess they have a point and son did break the rules.</p>

<p>If the GC is checking the box, trying to get him/her to change their mind is likely to make matters worse. So you write the little extra essay about how much you regret doing what you did and what you learned from the experience.</p>

<p>To WandMParent:<br>
The question on the form says: “Have you EVER been found … These actions could include, but are NOT LIMITED TO: probation, suspension, …” </p>

<p>To math:
That is why we are planning to check Yes.</p>

<p>To Proud:
Good to know this encouraging story.</p>

<p>To Live:
That is the concern we I are having right now. It seems we need to adjust the targeting schools. This is a life time penalty for minors. I need to change my ID too. :-(</p>

<p>Thank you all for sharing your experiences and suggestions.</p>

<p>Request a meeting with the head of your school to make sure that everyone at the school it on the same page. Start with the position that you want to be totally honest and upfront about the incident, but would prefer to not handicap your son’s chances. If the head of the school suggest that the GC will mark the form negatively, start preparing a statement to attach to the applications. I would not recommend using one of the essays to explain the incident, as it will take the form of offering excuses. </p>

<p>I believe that you could be optimistic about your chances with the head of school. Fwiw, I would also make sure to alert the GC that you will seek to visit with the headmaster or principal, but that is to make sure everyone is one the same page.</p>

<p>PS You or your son do not want to go through the entire application process with a cloud of uncertainty hanging over your head.</p>

<p>FWIW, that cloud of uncertainty exists for everyone, regardless of any extra worries. This is a time of great angst about *everything<a href=“are%20my%20essays%20strong%20enough?%20%20Will%20the%20recommendations%20sound%20as%20good%20as%20I%20want%20them%20to?%20%20Did%20I%20pick%20the%20right%20combination%20of%20schools%20to%20apply%20to?%20%20Did%20my%20interview%20go%20well?”>/i</a> And so on. </p>

<p>Don’t beat yourself up over this. Whatever happened happened. Your son learned from it. Life isn’t fair. I’m sorry a perfectly solid candidate struggles at this stage, but he’ll find a great school and you can’t look back.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>There’s a more than 90% chance that you would have had to change your name anyways, hpysdad. That’s just the reality of applying to HYPS type schools.</p>

<p>I know this is not what you are asking, but:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I hope you understand that <em>no one</em> has a “big chance” to the top schools based on stats. Great stats are the minimum requirement and having them will keep him out of the ‘automatic reject’ pile, but will not give him any better chance of admission than the many, many others who also have great stats. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>HYPS (as per your user name) are not ‘target’ schools for anyone. They are super reaches for everyone except for the few with very large hooks. Regardless of this particular issue, he needs to be looking at many schools other than HYPS. Also, I hope you don’t consider attending any school other than HYPS as being ‘penalized’ for life. Unlike some other countries, not attending the top 1 or 2 or 3 colleges (as determined by a news magazine which doesn’t even publish itself anymore) will not keep a smart, motivated student from achieving whatever they want to do in the future. There are many colleges from which, with hard work and dedication, a student can do just as much with their life, and succeed equally, as they would if they attended HYPSMCCCPD.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s exactly the attitude we adopted and it all worked out in the end. Son is in a great program at a school he likes. FWIW, I think someone who is an especially strong candidate won’t be dinged by an incident like this. Schools understand that sometimes kids do stupid things.</p>

<p>It seems like the school is overreacting. If they have extinguished the record, and considering he was in 10th grade and the crime is not that egregious, it seems like the merciful thing to do would be not to check the box.</p>

<p>

I’ll have to disagree that the school is overreacting. I don’t know what you would consider egregious.</p>

<p>I think it is no big deal (MHO of course). Yes, it was a lapse in integrity but your son is a teenager! Teenagers are not perfect and learn from the bumps in the road.By admitting this and explaining the indiscretion (not justifying but explaining what has been learned) your son would be showing maturity. I am certain that there are many many cheaters that apply to top schools that have never been caught. I am also certain that the top schools are aware of this fact.</p>

<p>As for meeting with the principal… make sure you don’t send a message to the GC that you are snubbing her authority. Even if meant in the most professional of ways, it can come off as arrogant. Remember, she is the one that needs to write a letter of rec for S.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>He was only 16 years old. Kids make mistakes; should we not allow them an opportunity for redemption. Many of the adults who would judge this kid so harshly have probably engaged in much worse stuff than him.</p>

<p>parent57, I pretty much agree with you. The kid GAVE information to another student, he didn’t seek to benefit himself. To me, that makes a big difference. I do not equate this with a kid who tries to better his own score. </p>

<p>I can’t understand why the school is bothering to pretend that it is expunged from his record if they plan to cite it on his college applications. That’s not what I’d call expunged!</p>

<p>The school/Guidance counselor is required to answer the question truthfully. It is what it is. I believe that if the explanation is acceptable to the school, it won’t hinder your son’s chances. I’ve seen something similar happen twice at my son’s school. Once for plagiarism, and once for an alcohol violation. BOTH times were in the students’ senior years AFTER they’d been accepted to their colleges. Both incidents were reported to the colleges by the high school, and neither acceptances were rescinded.</p>

<p>I have some experience with answering this question on applications.</p>

<p>In this case, I think it is extremely significant that the OP’s son did not cheat to benefit himself. Academic dishonesty to improve one’s own scores or grades is a real negative in college admissions. This incident can be explained in the supplemental essay. The response should not be lengthy. Explain the incident, explain that it was a lapse in judgment and that the student disappointed his teachers, his parents, and, most of all, himself. The a short statement of what was learned. I do not think it will impact admissions. I heard from a number of admissions folks at highly selective schools that no one expects teens to be perfect and there is room for mistakes. Drugs, violence and academic dishonesty to improve grades are the real no-nos.</p>