I was curious what people thought about how the high school attended impacts college admission. For example, does going to a highly competitive/rigorous public school (ranked in the top 100 based on US News) increase admission chances?
No simple answer here. There are loads of high schools which are known as “feeders”. These are typically boarding schools, private schools in wealthy suburbs, and magnet schools.
Being at the top of the class at one of these schools can definitely help. But being unhooked and from the middle or bottom of the class at one of the feeders is probably a detriment.
There are other holistic factors which impact admissions as well: URM status, financial aid, major, geography, etc.
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I think it does. I can’t prove it, but I think my child attending a selective NYC public was helpful to her application.
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I have rather limited experience relevant to this question, but what I have seen suggest that it really doesn’t matter. Finding a high school that is a good fit for you seems to matter quite a bit more.
Long ago when I was an undergraduate student at MIT, I was surprised to find one student who had only graduated #7 in his high school class. However, he had done high school at the Bronx High School of Science. Being #7 in an average high school probably would not have gotten him into MIT. However, if he had attended an average high school, he would almost certainly have finished higher in the class.
Meanwhile I had attended a mediocre high school and my freshman year roommate had attended an even worse high school. If we had been only #7 in our high schools there would have been no way that we would have gotten into MIT. However, since we had attended less competitive high schools, we had finished much higher in the class.
My kids and their friends had similar experiences.
University admissions seem to be very good at compensating for the strength of the high school that you attend. In all of the complaints that people have about university admissions at top schools in the US, I do not think that this is or at least should be one of them. Most likely one reason for this is that universities have been doing this for a while, and have already accepted quite a few students from a wide range of high schools and have seen how students from different high schools actually do at their university.
To me the summary of this is that you should attend a high school that is a good fit for you.
I also would not want to use up too much of your college fund at a private high school unless there is a very good reason. IMHO for most of us in the US saving money and attending a local public high school is probably the best approach, even if we want to end up at Harvard or MIT or Stanford (all of which have become high reaches for nearly every student).
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There’s no simple answer.
If you are a top student at Exeter or Stuyvesant, nobody will doubt your qualifications, so it’s a stamp of approval. Bottom half of the class at one of these – you’re probably exceptionally well prepared and able, but if the tippy top of your class has their sights on your top choices, you might have been better off elsewhere in terms of admissions if you are unhooked.
If you are in an auto-admit pool (i.e. Texas), your odds may improve at a less great school. But you may not be as well prepared.
It can help if your CC knows how to write a good rec and advise you well. Many “top” high schools have ways for students to do more advanced work and differential themselves.
But a high flyer from a less known school can leap out too because they aren’t like all the kids from feeder schools.
If you have choice, pick the school where the student can thrive and be their best self. No reason to go to the prestigious magnet if it’s not a good academic and social fit.
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The best feeders to top schools are in college towns. These HS tend to have a lot of parents that focus on academics, top math/science classes, and plenty of ECs like research and internships connected to the college.
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In my limited experience (one kid through process, more to go) - the strength of the school shows in where the middle of the pack go.
There seemed to be plenty of offers to T20 schools for middle of the pack kids at my kid’s HS, for non-demographically hooked candidates.
My kid received an offer to Michigan, even though OOS and not particularly intense ECs.
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Do you mean like Gunn (in Palo Alto) or Palo Alto High for Stanford? At such high schools, you need to also consider that an abnormally large portion of students apply to selective colleges, particularly to the one(s) nearby. For the nearby college(s), they also have a noteworthy number of parents are connected to the college such as legacies or children of faculty/staff. College towns with best “feeders” usually also have a high concentration of wealthy families. When you control for additional factors like these, the high schools may no longer appear to be the best “feeders.”
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Agree with others: it is complicated. I got my hands on some data a few years ago when we were considering a public test-in magnet. That school has at least 75% of students who have above-95%ile scores based on the admission testing, and the SAT averages reflect the same. However, the kids who finish in the bottom half almost never get in to the top two public flagships, and the top-10 acceptances are about 8-10% of the class. Contrast that with some local privates where “only” the top 1/4 with >95th %ile SATs, yet the flagship and top-10 chances(based on data provided by schools ) are only slightly lower. A student who chose the public yet was not a 99th%ile superstar AND willing to work very hard to get near the top of the class (and not let themselves be intimidated) might be better off at a school with less competition to get near the top.
It really all depends on the schools in question and the student as well: where can they get that right balance of academic challenge but also be able to stand out?
A friend of mine has 3 kids and made three different choices for HS based on the data from each school and the individual kid: and it worked very well—all three were able to bloom where planted and shine, and each got into one of their top choices.
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There are lots of variables here, but colleges also want to create more diverse campuses so they are looking beyond the “top” schools. Some magnet programs do not reflect the rest of their district socio-economically and they are looking further.
Colleges do look at a school’s average scores and GPAs compared to the applicants. They look at the rigor of courses available and what you took.
They also notice if you hop from one school to another and your rank is all of the sudden at the top of the “new” school. So think before you make any moves.
A public high school’s ranking in USNWR drives some of where AOs out recruiting may visit, but if your school is near some highly ranked schools they may swing by. The high school counselor or principal needs to respond to their requests though.
Letters of recommendation and essays matter more to some colleges. This process is cultivated at some high schools and haphazardly attempted at others.
There are kids who do not end up standing out in highly competitive magnets, governors’ schools, or private schools that may have been able to have more opportunities to shine at their home zoned school or local charter school.
Many of the top merit scholarships are going to students who have gone beyond the walls of school to volunteer, do research, or help out in some way. You can do that from anywhere.
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Private and public schools with robust guidance counseling services develop relationship with specific schools. It mutually benefits both the students and the school. It is however not a guarantee of admission to a top school. It’s harder to stand out in a sea of students who have their college educated and ambitious parents helping steer all their high school choices. It also brings a lot more pressure to the experience. So the answer is it depends… it does help but can also work against your child when applying to selective colleges.
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Rigor matters. It’s easy to demonstrate rigor at a top school. You may have to work at it if you’re at a lesser school, but if you can demonstrate rigor then that will be viewed favorably regardless of the school.
Back when Al Gore and Tommy Lee Jones were roommates at Harvard, anyone from Milton Academy and some other known feeders who wanted to go to Harvard was able to do so. Over the years, that has become less and less the case to the point where it hardly matters. Today, rigor matters.
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I will simply say yes. It helps. My son went to one and like every college knew his school and its rigor. Saying that, it doesn’t really matter if you didn’t. Colleges are building a class. Have a complete application and high school experiences with good rigor and you will be fine.
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It’s definitely not every college town, but I do think college towns often have strong high schools, access to excellent ECs, and a more “worldly” student body, and that helps an unhooked student stand out.
I agree about schools appearing to be feeders are often full of students with strong hooks. We toured a small boarding school that had a long history of being a top feeder to Yale, and often sent 20-25% of their graduates to Yale. The college guidance counselor was quick to tell us those admits were almost all the children of Yale professors.
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Hopkins?
It’s certainly very competitive to be at the top of the class in those high schools. But in some cases (not particularly Stanford but more the Ivies) they definitely seem to gain an admissions advantage over less well known nearby high schools.
There’s a limited number of spots at most top east coast schools for ORMs from CA. And my take is that those private schools prefer to fill their spots from schools they know so then the less well known schools get squeezed out.
I was thinking Hotchkiss. My sister went to Yale back in the 80’s and her Freshman year roommate went to Hotchkiss.
Ah tiger mom (The tiger mom)'s kids were Hopkins to Harvard.
Might be Choate. While Hotchkiss was a feeder to Yale back in the day, Lakeville is a little far from New Haven and Hotchkiss has very few day students. Choate is closer and the kids of Yale faculty could more easily attend Choate as day students.
It’s difficult to separate out effects from the influence of children of faculty/staff, legacies, wealthy area, a large portion of students apply to the nearby school; which often makes it difficult to draw conclusions. Using some real numbers, the following HSs had the largest number of matriculations to Princeton in 2015-20. I listed average number of matriculations and % of class.
High Schools with Most Matriculations to Princeton
1 . Princeton High (<1 miles from Princeton) – 16 students, 4% of class
2. Lawrenceville (5 miles from Princeton) – 14 students, 6% of class
3. Bergen County (50 miles from Princeton – 9 students, 3% of class
4. Thomas Jefferson (200 miles from Princeton) – 8.5 students, 2% of class
5. Stuyvesant (50 miles from Princeton) – 8 students, ,1% of class
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8. West Windsor:P South High (3 miles from Princeton) – 5.5 students, 1% of class
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14. West Windsor:P North High (4 miles from Princeton) – 4 students, 1% of class
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23. The Hun School of Princeton (2 miles from Princeton) – 3 students, 2% of class
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26. Stuart County Day School (3 miles from Princeton) – 3 students, 9% of class
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26. Princeton Day School (2 miles from Princeton) – 3 students, 3% of class
The high schools in the local Princeton area a few miles from the college all do have a significant number of matriculations. However, at most of these the average is low enough that the matriculants could all be hooked students. For example the West Windosor-Plainsboro publics averaged 4-5 students per year, which was 1% of the class. Given that the HSs are located 4-5 miles from Princeton, it’s likely that they have a good number of children of faculty/staff and legacies attending the high school. It’s possible that all the 4-5 who were admitted had this type of hook. I don’t see reliable evidence that the high school attended had any positive influence at all for unhooked kids.
There were 2 local high schools that far more matriculations than the others – Princeton High School and the Lawrenceville School, both averaging ~15 students per year, which was more than any all high schools in the United States. Lawrenceville is a highly selective high school whose admission is based on transcript, scores, LORs, and other factors. Kids who are admitted to Lawrenceville are pre-selected as the type of kids who are also likely to be competitive for admission to Princeton. There is also a self-selection effect. The type of kids/parents who apply to a highly selective private HS like Lawrenceville are also the type of kids/parents who are likely to apply to a highly selective private college like Princeton. When you combine this with a high rate of children of faculty/staff, legacy, and other hooks; I also don’t find the large matriculations as convincing evidence of Princeton favoring unhooked kids from Lawrenceville over other high schools.
This leaves Princeton High. Princeton high is a non-selective public, yet still averaged 16 matriculations per year, which was more than any other high school in the United States. Looking at the high school profile, it lists an average SAT score of 1293 (85th percentile). This is extraordinarily high for an open enrollment public, likely among the highest of all open enrollment, non-selective publics in the United States. The extremely high SAT for a non-selective public likely reflects a wealthy and well resourced community. A high concentration of children of high achieving parents connected to Princeton also contributes. The higher concentration of top students likely contributes to the matriculations, but by no means fully explains it. The school profile lists the following matriculations. It’s clearly not all Ivy+ type colleges that have a large number of matriculations. Princeton is an outlier with far more matriculations than other HYPSM… type colleges.
Princeton High School College Matriculations
Rutgers – 31 per year
Princeton – 19.5 per year (different sample years than earlier sample above)
NYU – 9.5 per year
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Yale, MIT – “Sampling of Fewer” = >0 to <4 per year
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Harvard, Stanford – Not Listed = No matriculations over 4 year period?
Princeton High school no doubt has a lot of kids applying to the nearby Princeton college, a lot of hooked kids with special connections to Princeton, and a high concentration of well academically qualified kids; which contributes to the matriculations However, it is also possible that Princeton High has a special relationship with Princeton University that could give certain students an advantage. The high school seems to want to emphasize their connection to Princeton University… For example, the about section of the high school’s website talks about Princeton University before it talks about the high school. I don’t know enough about the local area to accurately speculate. It certainly wouldn’t be the first college to have a special relationship with a local high school, but it’s difficult to draw such conclusions due to the many other contributing factors. It’s even more difficult to generalize that high schools in college towns are “the best feeders.”
Perhaps also noteworthy is Thomas Jefferson School of Science and Technology. It was the only school listed above as having the most matriculations to Princeton that was not <= 50 miles from Princeton. A more detailed breakdown for Thomas Jefferson is below. While TJ did have a lot of matriculations to Princeton, they only had a 8% admit rate. 8% was lower than average admit rate across the full applicant pool for students with typical TJ stats during the sample years (pre-COVID), so it could be argued that TJ is hurting chances for Princeton on average. This highlights how having a large portion of the class apply to Princeton (25% of TJ students applied to Princeton) can be influential on number of matriculations. Again, it is not good evidence of attending TJ typically helping students be admitted to Princeton. It likely depends on the particular student and what happens when placed in the highly competitive class full of amazing TJ kids + many opportunities and resources.
Thomas Jefferson Feeder to Princeton – 25% applied, 8% admit rate, 67% yield, 2% attended