Commuting can be a way to save money. No one ever said that it was pleasant, romani. My older sister commuted to cc and then to our state flagship - 45 minute trip to the state U. She didn’t take the 15-16 unit loads, usually 12-13, so it took her longer to graduate, but she did do so without debt and with a very high GPA (4.12 I think) in EE. My parents did help her with tuition costs that weren’t covered by the scholarship (she had a partial-tuition scholarship) and books. But they couldn’t afford for her to live on campus (and she had no desire to.)
It wasn’t fun. She never went to parties and hardly ever to social or club events on the campus (though that was mainly because she isn’t a social person.) She was dragging herself to school 2 days a week if she was lucky, 4-5 if the classes fell on alternating days. She was dead tired. But she did it. She got her degree. Her job right now doesn’t make a lot of money, but it’s something she can hopefully work at while she goes for her master’s. She has some money saved from internships (those were in town as well), not a fortune, but she at least doesn’t owe anybody anything.
Does Michigan charge more for upperclassmen who major in engineering?? I think we paid a little over $15,000 for upperclassmen tuition for LSA last year. I’m a little stunned at that number for instate tuition.
Yes @mom2collegekids unfortunately we are aware of the upperclassmen tuition trick as most of us begin paying it during our kids sophomore year due to any AP credits they bring with them. Michigan State “participates” as well and their tuition is only a few hundred less than Michigan’s. I’m wondering if most public universities charge more once a student has enough credits for junior standing. This also may be a way to make it look like to the State of Michigan that the schools stayed within the appropriate increases in tuition rates to maintain their state funding.
At these prices one can see why some families are taking on so much debt when they decide to go the instate public university route.
look at Wyoming. — it has only ONE 4-YR COLLEGE in the entire state. there are many areas in the rural plains states or mountain states where getting to any college is not easy.
There is only one public 4 year university (there is a 4 year Catholic private college) but there are branches in several of the ‘major’ cities (yep, we think of them as cities!) like Casper and Gillette where courses are offered in classrooms, and there are many online courses offered to students enrolled but not on campus in Laramie, and of course there are some CC around the state. It’s not uncommon to take a semester as an ‘online’ student and then go back to Laramie. It is much faster to get to Laramie from Denver than from most of Wyoming, so ironically, the Wyoming resident students tend to go home much less frequently than the kids from northern Colorado.
For Wyoming residents who want to go to Laramie, it can be close to free. Tuition is only about $4500 per year anyway, but there are so many scholarships available that often there is no tuition. R&B is about $8000 in a dorm, but lots of ways to get that down too. I chatted with a guy at orientation (trying to get my princess to join ROTC, silly boy). He was one of 7 kids, and told me his parents agreed to pay for tuition for one year and then they were on their own. He and his siblings all did it, becoming RAs, joining ROTC, getting other scholarships (engineering, talent, department, plus there are quite a few alumni scholarships available), jobs. It’s really not hard.
It is U of North Florida that requires freshmen to live on campus. No exceptions. My friend has 5 sons all in college at once so of course was trying to save every dime she could, and she tried everything to get them to not require her twins to live in a dorm as her house was within 5 miles of campus. She’s a lawyer, a widow, has an adorable French accent, so you’d think they’d relent. Nope. She was so mad she sent them to West Florida and FSU, neither of which required the dorm even though they were 3 and 6 hours away! Daughter’s friend went to UNF and was required to live in the dorms, but she went home every single weekend and often during the week since it was only 30 minutes away. I think she lives at home now that she’s a junior. The president of UNF is trying very hard to make it a non-commuter campus in the middle of a city.
I think we need to accept that different individuals have different levels of aversion when it comes to taking on debt. And I think perhaps we should understand that one person’s priority of 0 debt may not be another person’s priority.
Would we all rather not have any debt - of course.
However, some of us prioritized certain choices over the question of 0 debt.
I have my debt. I am THRILLED with the education it was able to finance for me. I will pay my monthly balance each month and not complain.
I have talked very frankly with my own children and, thanks to CC, I am able to help my daughter put together a college list that hopefully can balance out what she wants in a college with minimal debt. I do not prioritize 0 debt because that may not be the reality for her. But I want her to make the decision knowingly and with all the information she needs.
To each their own. I don’t think that telling people who can’t afford $30,000 out of pocket to do whatever it takes to avoid debt is helpful. For some people taking out those loans is the only way for them to live their dream. If they understand the consequences of the debt, I don’t see the problem.
At UMich, CoE is most expensive, Ross is the next (the order reverse for OOS). LSA’s tuition is cheaper to begin with, and the upperclassmen only pay ~$900 more per semester (for in state). For CoE, upperclassmen pay over $2100 more per semester on top of the already higher tuition rate. For OOS students, the tuition difference between LSA and CoE is smaller. Go figure.
$19K in-state tuition and fees (for COE upperclassmen) is high, but still within the range that in-staters pay. Total in-state tuition and fees for engineering, business, and many science majors entering UIUC now is $20.5K. Granted, they promise that that number won’t increase for you over 4 years.
PSU’s estimated in-state tuition and fees for their COA is $17.5K, but for an upperclassmen in engineering, it’s $20.5K.
Pitt isn’t cheaper. Pharmacy is a bit special and costs $29.6K for in-state. For in-state, Nursing and Health are $21.8K. Business is $19.3K. Engineering is a little less.
For UVM and UNH, in-state tuition is now almost $17K.
The in-state tuition for Cornell’s contract colleges is now $33K (about the same or more than the OOS price tag at many flagships).
The International rate at many Canadian colleges are actually comparable to in-state tuition rates at many American publics now.
There are 23 CSUs, so most (but not all) of California is within commuting range of one of them. They also have a local area preference to make it easier to get admitted to one in commuting range. However, there are some rural areas that are not within commuting range of any (probably why Humboldt and Chico are among the more residential campuses – too few students within commuting range), and some areas may only be in commuting range of campuses too selective (even with local area preference) for most college-ready students (e.g. students living in San Luis Obispo but are not able to get admitted to Cal Poly won’t have a commutable CSU option).
There are only 9 UCs, so many more parts of California are not within commuting range of one of them, and relatively high selectivity with holistic admission reading means that even those who do live near one of them usually cannot count on being admitted to that one.
“To each their own. I don’t think that telling people who can’t afford $30,000 out of pocket to do whatever it takes to avoid debt is helpful. For some people taking out those loans is the only way for them to live their dream. If they understand the consequences of the debt, I don’t see the problem.”
That’s just it! The point of the article was that these people are surprised a owing so much, or when they realize that a teacher’s salary in most cases won’t cover the interest on a $50k loan, never mind a $115k. I value education, but not at any cost. Dreams, wants, needs are all different things. The Elizabeth Warrens of the world are saying that people shouldn’t be burdened by these debts, because after the dreams of college come the dreams of wanting to get married, have children, go on a vacation to Disney, retire some day. Okay, don’t make the loans available. That will deny those who really don’t mind taking out the loans and living a poverty level for 20 years to pay the back the right to do so, but why should we set up a program and allow people to take loans and then claim those same people need to be saved?
Student loans aren’t like other loans. No qualifications, no collateral, all kinds of deferment programs. The only thing the guarantor (government/taxpayers) has going for it is that the loans can’t be avoided without a really good reason - like death! I really think there has to be limits on total guaranteed loans, including private. I don’t think there are a lot of people who borrowed the Stafford loans only unable to repay them barring special circumstances like a health crisis or natural disaster. Not fun, but do-able. Yup, some dreams will be crushed, or at least made harder for the dreamer to achieve. My kids have known many of life’s disappointments when they really wanted to participate in things, educational things, but they couldn’t. They wanted to stay at private school, but I couldn’t afford it so public school it was. Very sad. The government doesn’t fund other dreams, like the girl who wants to make it on Broadway or the new couple who wants to have 10 kids and stay home with them.
And without the loans what happens…the private schools, the expensive schools, and the some of the best schools in the nation become bastions of wealth and power (more then they are already.) The poorer kids might get good need based aid from the schools. But the middle class kids? The ones where the EFC says the family can pay $20,000 per year but the family knows it can’t? Why is it so difficult to accept that for some people taking on that debt is worth it for them?
I accept that, but you can’t have unlimited borrowing (the ability of any person to borrow $50k, $75k, $150k) guaranteed by the government, and then have government programs designed to cancel the debt because it is an ‘undue’ burden. Limit the borrowing.
Most elite schools are already out of reach for the middle class, because as you say the student/family needs to borrow $20k PER YEAR. It’s not the $20k that’s the problem, it’s the $80k.
How is the debt being cancelled? Aside from a few public service initiatives that allow you to cancel a bit of the debt I haven’t heard of any such program. It is virtually impossible for student debt to be avoided through bankruptcy. So how are people avoiding the debt (other than the few that default on the loans?)
I would argue that many families in many areas of the country who are earning $150,000 per year may not have the $20,000 to pay. Would it be so wrong for the student to borrow the money?
One example of how debt is being delayed until cancelled. Also an article last week on bankruptcy courts being more lenient on making the stay permanent on student loans.