How hard is brown?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
161

<p>And besides, do you know how many students per year get an ScB in physics here? 3-5. So ya, it's great that people want courses in everything, but they shouldn't, or shouldn't be allowed to, if they lack any common sense by themselves, to spoil it for those really interested. And as I represent about 20-30% of future physics majors of 2011 at Brown, my opinion should matter at least a little bit.</p>

<p>Like you know what I should do? Register with some friends in some random class that everybody enjoys, and continuously be like "pfft, what is this, I don't get any of this, explain again plx" and take turns in asking dumb questions, wasting everyone's time, flunking the midterm, then asking for the course to be dumbed down. Then drop the course anyway in 2 months. How fun would that be? </p>

<p>Oh, wait, I'm not an ahole.</p>

162

<p>I might disagree with that last statement... :)</p>

<p>Actually, my point was that there are many people smart enough to get into Brown that don't, but that all of the people here are still brilliant, still "smart enough to be at Brown." What differentiated them (partially) was how passionate and interesting they were. My point was not that Brown dumbs down its student body by selecting people with extra curriculars, but that's often how they choose between two people of similar academic accomplishments. </p>

<p>Not to discredit or invalidate your experiences in thermo, here, but I really feel like this is an anomoly at Brown on the whole. I don't think it's representative of Brown as a whole, or maybe a terrible new trend. But I haven't experienced anything like that before in my time here. I'm a transfer from another top school (though not as "top" as Brown), and it's much more challenging here, and there is a much larger percentage of smart and dedicated students here. </p>

<p>Here's a suggestion for you. You keep telling people with stupid questions to ask them during office hours. Well you can take advantage of office hours too. Find some questions that trick you up, and go in for some answers. I'm sure your teacher would probably be glad to help out an advanced student who disagrees with the dumbing down of his class and wants some challenges.</p>

163

<p>Actually the more I talk about it the more I'm convinced it is a new trend. Both math 20 and physics 47 are apparently taught at a much lower level than last year. And I guess you all read the article in the brown daily, with the students complaining about how hard the intro courses are?
And I know this by talking to people who actually took them. One failed math 20 last year, and now says it's truly a lamezor course</p>

164

<p>I haven't heard complaints that intro courses are hard so much as they're generally poorly taught, especially compared to some upper level courses.</p>

<p>Thing is, I think that affects a few departments (chem and math) way more than most.</p>

165

<p>You know, part of me was shocked by all the "diversity". Sometimes, it's hard to be at Brown, where people can load up on mandatory pass/fail writing workshops, while you have to struggle through difficult classes. But I think you need to evaluate why you are here. You are not here to participate in some sort of rat-race to some determined end.</p>

<p>You are here to learn. And you will find other like-minded people who will collaborate and help you on your way. There are smart, "real" people here. You may be one of them. And guess what: there are more, and you can find them.</p>

<p>So pardon the sailors of their lack of finesse in thermodynamics, and open your mind to the wealth of experiences that they have reached--but you have not. You just might learn something about life beyond the classroom.</p>

166

<p>I am not complaining just that students do not meet my high pretentious expectations. I am complaining because they are dragging down the level of the class. I am also paying and required to take the respective class, so I feel that my complaint is fairly justified.</p>

<p>If Brown will give me a refund for these classes, then allow me get a degree by just studying by myself, without paying tuition, I will be happy. Unless that happens, again, my complaints and expectations are justified.</p>

167

<p>GoingtoSpace has a really good point though. There's a lot to learn beyond physics, and outside the classroom. Look into it.</p>

168

<p>p.s. how exactly is the class changed now?</p>

169

<p>I will see tomorrow</p>

<p>
[quote]
There's a lot to learn beyond physics, and outside the classroom. Look into it.

[/quote]

I'm sure there is. I find plenty of that. But what part of "I am also paying and required to take the respective class" is not making sense? It's like going to a restaurant, and when you complain about the bad food, you're told, but look at the nice customers we have, and pretty pictures. While you obviously get kicked out if you don't buy and eat their food.</p>

<p>And oh yes I'm bursting with knowledge and fun from the typical "hey, how are you? I'm good, how are you? Oh, I'm good, bye! Good, bye!" conversations around the campus. Also people breaking bicycles for fun is really entertaining and says a lot about the people here. Hey, me and my friends get smashed drunk too starting each wednesday, but we don't go around smashing people's bikes. Yes, intellectual atmosphere and interesting students at their highest. All I see are superficial and very ignorant people. There are probably exceptions, or maybe we just have different tastes and standards.</p>

<p>And again, that is beyond the point. Lets stick to classes. Read my restaurant example and see how talking about how many other options exist is completely irrelevant. Sure, the atmosphere of a restaurant is important too, but you go there to eat, and are expected to eat, AND pay.</p>

170

<p>"Also people breaking bicycles for fun is really entertaining and says a lot about the people here. Hey, me and my friends get smashed drunk too starting each wednesday, but we don't go around smashing people's bikes. Yes, intellectual atmosphere and interesting students at their highest. All I see are superficial and very ignorant people. There are probably exceptions, or maybe we just have different tastes and standards."</p>

<p>This made me laugh out loud. Do you realize that bicycle theft is like the number one crime on campuses accross the entire country? That it is of no reflection of the caliber or character of students here? Do you realize that drinking occurs basically everywhere but Bob Jones University? And that at Brown, it is incredibly tame? </p>

<p>There's a lot more than "hey how are you" to be had. But I probably wouldn't want to open up and talk to you if you just thought I was a superficial and ignorant person... </p>

<p>You're being a snob, and letting your experience in one class color your entire opinion of this university and its student body.</p>

171

<p>As a drinker myself, I can question the mental level of people who smash bicycles when drunk. I said smash. for the simple pleasure of it. Not steal to make money. That is ok :)</p>

<p>And I'm just telling you the statistical facts I have so far discovered. Not making assumptions. Before coming here, everybody told me, oh the students will be so and so horrible and lame etc. I didn't believe them, I thought they were just generalizing, and I knew that here people have a different lifestyle and we shouldn't expect them to be the same.
But come on. Smashing bikes? Do we have a government in Romania? Or does mango grow there? Every single time I meet a new student, start a conversation about this and that blabla. Then the unavoidable question pops up : "Do you have like, pizza in romania?"
You should realize all is not so pink instead of calling me a snob.</p>

172

<p>I hope I didn't give the impression some of these students are giving when we met, Negru.</p>

<p>It's kind of astonishing reading this conversation compared to those I've been having with faculty and staff recently expressing their continued amazement with Brown students and what they're capable of.</p>

173

<p>I have to say, I've spoken with a few Brown students during my college search and haven't heard anything of what you are ranting about, negru.</p>

174

<p>Negru, </p>

<p>The Ivy League is not some machine that is meant to output the next, snobbishly intellectualized and rich ruling class. It is, in part, about empowering a diverse group of individuals with knowledge, so that they may return to their origins with the means of making a better world.</p>

<p>Now, if that means you have to deal with a couple of un-pointed questions in your thermodynamics class, then I would have to say the benefits vastly outweigh the costs. </p>

<p>To get back to your restaurant analogy: You forget that the customer has a choice. The customer can choose to leave. Likewise, if Brown is not a good fit for you to the point where it is unbearable, then you should leave. Even if you have paid 50k here, treat it (from an economic perspective) as a sunk cost. If you can't stand the atmosphere, it's probably in your best interest to pack up and leave. After all, you have three and half years ahead of you.</p>

<p>Now, don't get me wrong here, if there is a logistical problem, it should be fixed. But if you are angry at how "incompetent" others are, then perhaps you should find others who you are able to associate with, or learn that there's more to college than just rubbing shoulders with math champions that made you feel, in comparison, dumb. </p>

<p>To be clear, I don't want you to go. From your posts, you sound like a math whiz who can stare down a thermo problem like none other. You were accepted to Brown, and hopefully, you belong here. You've paid 50k, and yes, you are (to a degree) entitled to a time well-spent here at Brown.</p>

<p>So, instead of languishing with a class that seems to be too slow for you, why don't you challenge yourself with some private study? File an application for a research position at a nearby lab. Go out for a swim. Pick up an instrument. Expand your skills.</p>

<p>Just remember that you are at one of the most privileged places in the U.S. - a university brimming with people who are (if you really look) qualified to be here. </p>

<p>Goodluck.</p>

175

<p>Negru, really, I mean I have not encountered anything like you have and I find your claims hard to believe. Smashing bikes? Come on now.</p>

176

<p>^ just inspect the bikes left at the ratty. I'd be surprised if you find less than 3 with their back wheel broken.</p>

177

<p>"I hope I didn't give the impression some of these students are giving when we met, Negru."
Actually, I was pleasantly surprised when you started saying things that I'm saying now here. Like how here it's considered ok to not try and reach a higher level. How is that different from me calling people ignorant? I was impressed to see someone from here aware of the situation, and not have problems saying it.
It's a miracle now I see that people don't raid your house and throw cocktail molotov.
Some of you are getting too defensive when I say bad things about brown. Brown <> you. When you will learn to dissociate from groups you belong to, when no common interest is shared, you will also no longer need this PC police state to keep racism and sexism and crap out. If you speak for a group when it doesn't concern you directly, you're only propagating these evil nasty things. Think about that</p>

178

<p>Thought about it. No, I'm not, but thanks for the suggestion.</p>

179

<p>I've never got the impression that people don't reach for a higher level, at all. </p>

<p>And lol about the bicycle thing. One of those bicycles is actually mine. I left it in front of the ratty for about 8 months and the back wheel BENT in half. The people beat the crud out of it. Generally speaking, I don't think people go around trashing healthy bikes, just broken and abandoned ones. Not that that's great either, but much less severe. So seriously, don't take the Ratty bikes as any kind of indicator. I'm laughing right now.</p>