How Hard is it to Get a 4.0 @ Harvard?

<p>Is a 4.0 at Harvard possible? For those who had 4.0's in high school is it depressing to get lower grades?</p>

<p>A 4.0 is probably not a realistic or a healthy goal to have. Most people get to Harvard and realize that GPA is just one component of the undergraduate experience and don’t overly stress about grades. If your eye is on grad school, a GPA of 3.5+ from Harvard makes you very competitive.</p>

<p>In the long run, no one will remember your GPA. It’s about what you learn and how you change the way you think.</p>

<p>

But in the short run, graduate schools will remember your GPA quite well. And everyone remembers your graduate school.</p>

<p>It’s pretty rare to graduate from Harvard College with a 4.0.</p>

<p>Anyone who truly gets depressed with lower grades at Harvard than they got in high school, should seek counseling.</p>

<p>Lots of kids are initially disappointed when they don’t get the grades at Harvard that they were used to in high school. Generally, that disappointment quickly passes.</p>

<p>I heard only 6 ppl have ever gradudated with a 4.0 ever.</p>

<p>There was one person with a 4.0 in the class of 2009.</p>

<p>Some advice I got from a senior when I was a freshman at Harvard was to get a GPA in the 3.6-3.8 range. If you’re below a 3.6, there are some opportunities (i.e. jobs, grad schools) that you won’t really be able to get. And if you’re above a 3.8, you should spend more time on ECs/having fun, and less time worrying about getting As vs. A-s.</p>

<p>

To be honest, I’ve found that the opposite is true. Students used to getting A’s and A+'s at easy grad-inflating public high schools accept that it’s okay to get a lot worse grades because “it’s college and a lot harder” or “it’s Harvard” or whatever. So many kids are perfectly fine with getting B’s and the occasional B-.</p>

<p>A 4.0, I could imagine, would take a combination of a more lenient concentration (i.e. psychology, sociology) and a more strategic course selection. Moreover, utilizing the P/F option and only enrolling in one or two rigorous courses each semester would definitely help. I would argue that these tactics devalue a true college education but they are often necessary for the sake of future circumstances.</p>

<p>Short answer: it is possible if you are an absolute freak in terms of raw intelligence and never do much of anything besides study. You would have to be freakishly intelligent even amongst “nerds” who study all day, or very skilled at choosing easy classes and working the system. Don’t be any of these people.</p>

<p>According to this story, when Kevin Schwartz graduated with a perfect GPA in 2001, he was one of only four in Harvard’s 350-year history to do so.</p>

<p>[Schwartz</a> Makes Harvard History](<a href=“http://www.antonnews.com/roslynnews/2001/06/22/opinion/]Schwartz”>http://www.antonnews.com/roslynnews/2001/06/22/opinion/)</p>

<p>But then his sister accomplished the same feat two years later:</p>

<p>[Senior</a> Earns Perfect Grades | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/6/5/senior-earns-perfect-grades-lisa-b/]Senior”>Senior Earns Perfect Grades | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>

<p>So far as I’m aware, that’s the last time it’s been done. My son graduated in 2009 and I did not hear anything about anyone in that class achieving a perfect GPA, though jfm, who was also in that class, may have info I don’t have.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure someone in the class of 2009 had a 4.0 - it was mentioned by Dean Hammonds in her Commencement address, as well as in the Adams House festivities (the student, a math concentrator, was in Adams House). I could have misheard things though…</p>

<p>OMG cosar those people are crazy!!! 4.0 at harvard!! but they did major in government, not sure how difficult it is, but definitely easier than math or pre-med</p>

<p>“if you’re above a 3.8, you should spend more time on ECs/having fun”</p>

<p>You can do both. For me, writing a thesis would have taken far more time away from ECs/fun than breaking 3.8.</p>

<p>Not many students get perfect 4.0; however, some do and many, many more get nearly perfect GPAs. And it does matter but most are unaware of the benefits of a perfect/near perfect GPA or because they are no longer competitive, due to lower grades, they assume it is not necessary nor healthy.</p>

<p>As a former consultant at a top tier firm and having lead recruiting for the Firm and other companies, at the Ivy league, I can share some of the following that may help you reconsider your bias that high GPAs at Harvard (for that matter at any school) is not important:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>For companies, and ours in particular, GPAs are the first screening tool as there are more qualified candidates than we would really like to interview. Perfect or near perfect GPA (all things being equal) assures an interview. Low GPA simply no interview.</p></li>
<li><p>Even if you’re a Grad student at Harvard (or insert any grad institution) we are going to look at your GPA with the same results as #1. </p></li>
<li><p>As recruiting becomes more competitive, between companies for the best talent (yes, those with perfect or near perfect GPAs), firms/companies have tried to hire interns in the Junior year so offers can be extended for a job before the best students start their senior years. Even grad schools, HBS as an examples, have come up with the 2+2 program for this very purpose.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>If you want a job at the best companies around the world GPAs will matter at some point (if you are connected, and you think you are immune, thats great for you). Most do not know this but the very best students will make easily $80,000 to $90,000 to start but some 22 and 23 year olds will make nearly $200,000 their first year out of school. And invariably to compete for these jobs you have to have a high GPA to reasonably get an interview (of course you are going to be well rounded with much more than just good grades or you’ll never see an offer!).</p>

<p>Of course the above won’t matter if you just want to attend grad school and you plan to enter a profession where metrics are not applied or if you are happy with a mediocre role where you have to work probably just as hard at the student who got perfect/near perfect GPA but later in your career - that is the choice you have to make.</p>

<p>If I have offended anyone with my thoughts I extend my apologies now.</p>

<p>When I went to Harvard, I don’t remember anyone talking about their gpa. Harvard students were far more likely to talk about the content of their courses or the interesting ECs or research they were doing than to spend their time comparing grades.</p>

<p>Someone who’s so concerned about maintaining a 4.0 average probably should go to a college where they know that they’ll easily attain the average they seek.</p>

<p>Every Harvard student I knew except for one got into the kind of graduate or professional program that they wanted to attend. That one student was a rare student who, I heard, had a truly bad gpa related to her joining an off campus sorority and spending a lot of time partying. She wasn’t able to get into med school right after college.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, another friend who apparently must have gotten really horrible grades in Harvard because she spent her time there getting drunk after her father committed suicide, decided to become a doctor several years after graduating from Harvard. She took premed courses at a local public university, went to a public med school, graduated at the top of her class, and now is a very well regarded surgeon who is an adjunct faculty member at an Ivy med school.</p>

<p>@exsrch - I agree that GPA matters for interviews, but don’t you concede that there’s a point where differences are negligible? Do you really interview more 3.95 candidates than 3.85 candidates? I always thought that GPA’s above a certain point put interviewers on a bit of a “nerd alert” - especially for jobs like management consulting where client skills are just as essential as analytic skills.</p>

<p>@northstarmom - I think your post still rings true on campus. It’s a bit weird when things like the Phi Beta Kappa inductees are listed in The Crimson… there are a lot of dining hall conversations like “Wow, I had no idea he was so smart.” or “I never thought she studied…”</p>

<p>@just<em>forget</em>me - I would say a perfect and near perfect GPA, defined as anything higher than 3.8, will probably get you an interview especially out of Harvard but maybe not from Cornell or Dartmouth - this is often due to supply (graduates) and demand (positions) which changes from year to year. Some schools we won’t even interview at because the yield will be too low (we don’t find enough of the right people. Fixed cost to recruit at those schools are too high so we don’t invest in a multi year relationship although we’ll take resumes submissions or resume books). Hopefully, this make you feel better. However, firms/companies will sometimes interview you but you may have no hope of getting a job as the objective is to build the firms reputation on campus - you might go to the career office and just sign up but only the select few will have a chance and GPA will be highly correlated to their probability. </p>

<p>Also, your concern about too high of a GPA registering on the nerd radar is unfounded because simply there are plenty of kids graduating from Harvard and elsewhere with high perfect/near perfect GPAs that are far from nerds. There are no correlation between high GPAs and nerdiness (is this a new word?) for those who are lucky to get prime jobs or at least I have not seen it at my firm or similar companies. Essentially, those with weak interpersonal skills are weeded out quickly as are those with great interpersonal skills without some sort of differentiators (which firstly starts with high GPA).</p>

<p>@northstarmom - Indeed it is easier to attend another school and get a higher GPA the problem with that strategy is that you will find interviewing with premier companies, opportunities with high salaries, guaranteed grad school tuition payment/reimbursement, global perspective etc. is difficult as the probability they’ll recruit where it is easier to get high grades are low or none. Additionally, I personally did a study a year ago comparing our tier 1 vs. tier 2 schools that shows larger percentage of graduates at top university get higher GPAs than at easier schools (This was based on 5 years worth of applicants roughly 200k applications). Also, I think you’ll find that students of today are very different from the students we were plus what society demands from them today make our day on campus seem pretty easy - we had it a lot easier :)</p>

<p>@LuciaB - the other posters have confirmed that a 4.0 is possible but let me confirm that getting something close to 4.0 is done regularly at Harvard and at many many schools that are equally challenging. I know because I’ve seen their applications and their transcripts. That group of high performing kids might be a small percentage but the aggregate number is not small compared to available opportunities.</p>

<p>For some Matrix is correct as they have gamed the process to get good grades. I’ve seen Econ concentrators take Math 1 when they have gotten a 5 on the AP BC calc exam. But keep in mind gaming the process and taking the hardest classes need to be balanced and there isn’t anything wrong with taking the right strategy for yourself during the undergrad - although the example i used is questionable judgement (he did get a job with our firm and did well).</p>