How "impacted" are CS classes at UCLA (and other UCs)?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Los Angeles
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DS wants to study CS/Data Science.
We are trying to finalize a list of West Coast schools we should start looking deeper at, and keep hearing about class size issues and about difficulties getting into class at UCs.
How much of a problem is? Should we focus on USC/HMC over say UCSB/UCLA/UCSD?
(We are OOS for CA, and cost is not an issue)

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CS is an impacted/selective major at all the UC’s. If you are admitted, then getting the classes especially the upper division courses are not an issue. The large class sizes are usually found in the lower division, pre-req (foundation) courses needed to continue within the major where not only CS majors but other STEM related majors need to take these courses.

You can look up the course catalogs and classes at each UC campus to determine the average class size.

Link to classes: https://sa.ucla.edu/ro/public/soc/Results?SubjectAreaName=Computer+Science+(COM+SCI)&t=21S&sBy=subject&subj=COM+SCI&catlg=&cls_no=&undefined=Go&btnIsInIndex=btn_inIndex

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I’m not in anyway an expert in getting CS classes at UCLA or other UCs, but I believe @10s4life and other engineering type majors at UCLA would say that it’s not hard to get classes.

However, CS classes are larger, but the major is popular all across the country. That’s why according to a story in the StanfordU paper a couple years ago, it stated that the average class size there was ~ 120. They’ll be big all across the UCs also. But HMC is a small college, and I’m sure its classes are doubtlessly smaller, as also at Caltech.

Also, you mentioned “CS/Data Science.” At UCLA they call it Data Theory (“DT”), which adds some theory into DS, because the University is theory-based and wants to incorporate it into essentially all majors.

At UCLA, DT and CS are two different majors and are in two different colleges with different requirements to graduate: DT in Letters and Science, and CS in the Samueli School of Engineering. L&S has about a 12-14% acceptance rate, and E has an acceptance rate of ~ 8% and specifically ~ 6% for the computer-related majors, CS, CS & E, and Computer E.

The DT majors will mostly be taking classes through the Math/Statistics Department, along with some from the Programming In Computing classes which are also attached to the math. There’s a Specialization in Computing, in which just about any major can attach, and there are CS type majors in the Bio Department called Computational and Systems Bio and one in math called Computation of Mathematics.

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Let me add that admission to UCLA in L&S doesn’t necessarily mean admission to its majors. Data Theory will take a 3.3 gpa in the pre-major courses to be admitted to the major itself. There’s a pathway for admittance to engineering majors including the CS ones, but it’s extremely tough.

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As @firmament2x mentioned, it’s not hard to get classes as a CS major. The only majors where getting classes are tough at UCLA are the life science ones due to the over abundance of pre meds.

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I don’t have any UC specific CS information, but I concur that the popularity of CS as a major has grown exponentially. A couple of anecdotes. When my daughter attended her first Intro CS class at Stanford in 2016, the auditorium was full and she ended up in the overflow room where the lecture was televised. Within ten minutes, the overflow room was full and latecomers were directed to a second overflow room.

My son is pretty set on CS, so are 40% of his classmates in his senior class of 530 kids in our STEM emphasis local high school. The general consensus is that if you have to apply direct to a CS major or a CS/Engineering department, it is realistic to aim for the next set of lower-tier schools than what your stats and EC’s could match with as target schools otherwise. For him, every school he applied to where CS is direct-admit, he looks at all of them as reaches and takes nothing for granted. He is over the moon about his acceptance to UIUC but I secretly hope he will get accepted by one of the UC’s and stays in Cali.

Another anecdote–yesterday at UIUC’s admitted parents’ Q&A session, it was remarkable that out of the 100+ submitted questions on Chat, at least 10 of them specifically asked about how can my son/daughter transfer to a CS major or what is the process for my child admitted to undeclared to declare CS or is there a CS waitlist? Finally the admissions lady gave the frank reply that if your child’s heart is set on CS, the path to CS at UIUC is not impossible but highly improbable since the program is bursting at the seams (my paraphrasing
not her actual words). Her advice is to take offers from other schools where their child would have a more straightforward path to CS.

Many schools host virtual sessions that are major or department specific when you sign up on their website, especially the private schools, and we found them helpful as they would share slides about admissions stats from past years and some of them would bring on students to answer questions. Sorry I don’t have UC specific info
 just thought I’d share what I observed with my two kids’ college journey as they relate to CS. Good luck!

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Being able to getting into desired CS classes is a very important issue many CS applicants don’t pay enough attention to. When I visited colleges with my S a few years ago, that’s one of the main issues we raised with every school (we visited about 30 of them). We never visited any UCs, but we did visit HMC on your list. My recollection is that it did have some issues. It had to prioritize its classes by major, seniority, one’s home campus (for students from other 5C campuses), etc. The issue isn’t the college size (many colleges, both large and small, have similar issues), but another small college 30 min away, Caltech, doesn’t have any of those issues even though nearly 40% of its students major in CS these days. Class sizes for similar CS courses are generally smaller at smaller colleges.

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I agree that this is a good question to be asking anywhere. Also agree that if your student is set on CS to cast a wider net.

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That’s very good info 
 pretty much takes UCLA out of the list.
What about UCSD and UCSB?
How mobbed is CS @ USC?

@firmament2x
Part of the reason is why UIUC is not longer on the list - OOS Acceptance rates into CS.
At least Purdue seems to welcome OOS applicants, as does Michigan.

I don’t really want my son to go to the West Coast (for the same reason you want urs to stay in UCs), but I kept reading about how UCs actually wanted the OOS applicants (we are full-pay anywhere), so I hoped it would provide a leg up 
 but seems to be a tough road ahead.

Yeah, we’ve been more and more thinking of most schools (direct admits) on our list as reaches. I guess it’s time to search for “hooks” 


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Oy :slight_smile: HMC is a massive reach for anyone 
 and Caltech is in a different stratosphere

Makes sense that classes would be prioritized by major 
 I guess with HMC it means
that they let fewer students out of other 4Cs into HMC’s classes, as CS coursework has
to be fully ingrained into the engineering core curriculum. Maybe time to give Stevens a
harder look 
 even though it may be just too close to home :slight_smile:

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It seems to be more than that. It appears to operate with waitlists for at least some of the courses even for students from the home campus.

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Well that just sucks 
 even if the most expensive small private colleges that focus on undergrad
education have waitlists into essential courses 
 ■■■???

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I think the reasons behind all these restrictions at any college seem to be resources, both the size of related faculty relative to the number of students in CS (and beyond) and the availability of large classrooms. The issue with HMC, I suspect, may be more of the latter.

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Yes, for CS major applicants, a “hook” is important as the standard resume for many CS kids these days already include knowing multiple programming languages, achieving USACO milestones, competing in hackathons, creating apps/ games or working summer internships at hi-tech companies. Definitely use the essays to stand out and show your non-CS side as well. In the UC Admissions virtual sessions we attended, AO’s emphasized how they really want to know the applicant through the PIQs. I remember the Cal AO saying just get straight to the point, don’t use flowery language or be cute with a poem, etc. since it’s just 350 words.

Don’t cross off UIUC from your list. They do not give preference to in-state students for any major including CS–quoted from their Freshman Applicant FAQ:

What percentage of undergraduates are from out of state?

Approximately 26% of our incoming freshmen are nonresidents. Out-of-state students are evaluated against the same criteria used for in-state students.

Their CS admit rate in 2019 was 23%–1369 admitted out 5861 applied. This includes pure CS and their 13 CS + X programs with pure CS admit rate likely lower than CS + X admit rate. WIth the explosion of applications this year, the rate is probably lower but I would think it is still higher than Cal or UCLA.

UIUC is considered expensive even for in-state students due to high price tag and lack of merit aid and many prefer Purdue or flagships at Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin. Local media have talked about serious brain drain with so many bright students going OOS, so if you can afford full pay, you stand as good a chance as anyone at UIUC. I am also blown away to learn that some of their dorms have air-conditioning and in-room housekeeping including changing sheets!

For Purdue CS, definitely apply Early Action as I heard they lean towards a rolling admissions model–once all the spots are gone, Regular Decision applicants who are high stats are just put on Waitlist or rejected.

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Let me add one more thing, and thereby interrupt your excellent conversation.

The current academic year at UCLA and the rest of the UCs has been zoomed, as the virus has hit California especially hard all throughout from when it appeared in the nation and state, so this is undoubtedly why these classes are larger than normal. The departments would normally split off lectures into sections, but since it’s a situation mostly of classrooms without walls, there’s no real need to do so. That’s what it appears to me. But the UC is planning to fully go to in-person learning for 2021-2022.

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My daughter attended UC Davis and her roommate was A CS major.
My son attended Caltech and also as a CS major.

My daughter’s roommate,”Sarah” had prerequisite math classes in the 500 to 1k range, with pictures of students leaning against walls, but, she said that those were the classes that were held at the “popular” times-10 am, 11 am; plus, these were numbers at the beginning of the quarter, when non-CS majors were trying to get into CS.

Towards mid quarter, the numbers dwindled. The 3 and 4 pm classes weren’t so full.

Sarah mentioned that a number of hopeful CS students just weren’t as strong or had difficulties with math concepts and/or with the pace of a quarter system. (She was a math and CS tutor in her Jr and Sr years.).

If your child gets into a UC, with a CS major designation, then he will be able to take the required courses for the major. Those courses are prioritized for Designated CS majors.

Yes, the major is impacted at the UC‘s, but if he gets in, as a designated CS major, he’ll be able to schedule those prerequisite courses during his Pass sessions with his counseling team. Non CS majors have to hope to be admitted into the program with high GPAs in the right prerequisite courses-IF- there is space in those prerequisite courses.

Most UCs are on the quarter system. The amount of work covered in 10 weeks across all coursework is very difficult for new freshmen.

Caltech has the professors teach the courses, then they run out of the class and do research, while the Graduate assistants schedule the tests, run the labs and grade the exams.
BTW: My eldest daughter attended SUNY Buffalo, intending to do a special program in premed. Discovered she didn’t want to be in school for 15-20 yrs before making decent money. She eventually opted out of that.

She changed majors to CS and Electrical Engineering, graduated, got a job back home in California. She is now a CS manager with very strong teaching and communication skills. She is very popular with Senior staff since she runs the social program for engineering and software. She got her start at a SUNY.

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Sorry, but some of these thoughts come to me in piecemeal. The UCs have very good math departments and this is especially true of UCB, UCLA, and UCSD.

Since this is the UCLA board and I’m definitely a homer towards the U, I’ll say that there’ve been numerous students who don’t want to chance being rejected by applying to engineering for CS and its other majors within the HSSEAS.

So they often will choose Applied Math or one of the approximately seven other math majors, and then apply to graduate school in a specific E field, CS, Electrical Engineering, Aerospace, etc. I’ve seen those and heard of those who’ve majored in Applied Math, attached a minor or another major in Statistics, and add the Specialization in Computing, or go Stats and Specialization, or more of the business/econ side and Specialization.

And there have been cross overs in E and L&S by a few who’ve combined a major in Neuroscience and CS for example.

If not for your benefit, and your son(?), I just wanted to show that UCLA and the UCs offer other pathways to becoming a CS specialist. All the best.

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UC Davis just opened California Hall in 2019 with room for 579 students (pre-pandemic). It is the largest lecture hall on campus so I don’t know how any class could have 600-1000 students. Davis will not over enroll classes. My guess is that early in the quarter students were trying to get in off of the waitlist and had to attend just in case.

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Great anecdotes, but the $million question is, what are the sizes of CS classes at Caltech, a college with < 1,000 students?

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Btw, sorry, I didn’t know what “DS” meant. It means son, so sorry about my prior reference. But UCB does have an L&S Computer Science degree that takes them into the major if a student maintains a 3.3 in its pre-courses. You can confirm that with @ucbalumnus , and I don’t know how UCSD admits to the major – apparently it might be by lottery, or at least some spots may be.

@edragonfly, per your quote:

Their CS admit rate in 2019 was 23%–1369 admitted out 5861 applied. This includes pure CS and their 13 CS + X programs with pure CS admit rate likely lower than CS + X admit rate. WIth the explosion of applications this year, the rate is probably lower but I would think it is still higher than Cal or [UCLA]

I would imagine that UIUC would have a lot of self-selecting types because of its rep, but I was wondering, too, whether it might place weeders at the beginning of the major, which would seem natural within its study.