<p>This question is for high school students and high school parents.</p>
<p>I have an 8th grade daughter who is a strong student. Recently a couple of other parents have encouraged me to go through the process to get her classified as gifted. I have never thought this classification was necessary, but would consider having her go through the process if it would help my daughter in high school. BTW she just transferred from a private school to a public school, so the gifted classification wasn't even a possibility in past years.</p>
<p>Other parents tell me that the gifted classification will help my daughter get into the classes that she may want to take in high school such as AP and IB classes. I feel like her test scores and her grades stand for themselves and the gifted classification should not be required to get into the classes. She is in the 95th to 99th percentile in 3 subject areas on the SAT-10 and based on the criteria\point system I think it is fairly likely that she would be classified as gifted.</p>
<p>The other parents tell me that the fact that the child has an IEP can tip the balance in trying to get the child in a higher level class. On the other hand, I have been told by counselors (a couple of years ago) that the classification does not matter after 8th grade since there is no longer a "gifted program" or any pull out classes. I am concerned that the guidance counselor may not even want to go through this process for an 8th grader.</p>
<p>What has your experience been? Thanks so much for any advice that you can give me on this matter.</p>
<p>Essentially it is important in elementary and middle public schools so that they are allowed to take advanced level classes in middle school by default unless they don’t do well in them. Once you get to high school, your middle school record determines what track you are allowed to follow in high school if they have more than one level of class for a subject. For example, our high school has advanced, honors and Pre AP as three levels. If someone did not do one or two PreAP classes in middle school, they may not be allowed into PreAP but at the same time, one can go work with counselor to take the PreAP.</p>
<p>^^^same thing with our high school. My son transferred into a neighboring high school district after 8th grade. Kids who came from that same district were automatically placed in the honors program if they had previously been in the gifted program. My son had to take placement tests and have a letter of recommendation from his previous counselor, even though he had been in an honors program also. </p>
<p>I would call the high school to see what their policy for placement is. Talk to a counselor , and if they assign counselors by last name or some other predictable way, talk to the specific counselor your daughter will have. I wouldn’t bother with gifted testing if it doesn’t affect her high school placement.</p>
<p>I sent you a private message. Know you can’t respond, but also as a general response to what is above, call the high school guidance counselor. Ask what process they use to decide whether students can enroll in AP or IB classes. The other parent may be right or wrong – get the info from the school.</p>
<p>Wow! Thanks so much for the responses. I occasionally read posts on this board, but had never posted. All of your responses have been very helpful. I would really rather not have to go through the gifted classification process this year and your responses will help me make the decision about what approach to take.</p>
<p>texaspg
I believe that the pre-AP classes are a new concept in our school district and my daughter was placed in a pre-AP language arts class this year. She is also taking Algebra I and Spanish I and is doing well in all of the courses. </p>
<p>takeitallin
We transferred from private back to public in 8th grade for the reasons that you mention. I wanted the high school to be able to compare “apples to apples” when she started high school and I wanted her to have the Alg I and Spanish I credits from eighth grade. </p>
<p>My challenge is that both parents tell me that the guidance counselors will tell me that the gifted classification is not important, but the parents say that it is important on “borderline issues”</p>
<p>beerme
We have of those math options plus an Advanced Algebra and Trigonometry class that goes between Algebra II and PreCalc. We also have the option of AP Statistics, AP Calculus AB, AP Calculus BC, and IB Math. </p>
<p>Our science curriculum looks very similar, but it seems that they want to place the kids in a course called “Physical World Concepts” in 9th grade. A lot of people say that it not a very useful class, but that you have to fight tooth and nail to get a kid into Biology instead and that sometimes having the gifted classification can help on issues like this. I feel that spending a year on “Physical World Concepts” would mean less time for advanced Biology and Chemistry classes in the junior and senior years. Do any of you have a similar situation or have you ever heard of a course called “Physical World Concepts”?</p>
<p>It really depends on how your high school works. I know that at my son’s high school, sometimes those “borderline cases” can be an issue if the numbers don’t work out for honors classes. For example, they have room for 60 students in honors science but have 62 that are automatically qualified. They may go ahead and take the 62, but an additional 5 that are borderline will be relegated to the basic science so that another honors section does not have to be staffed. I know that this does happen at our school, and may be what the parents you know are talking about. </p>
<p>We don’t have a Physical World Concepts, but do have a general science class for non-honors that sounds similar. I think that class would be a waste of time for anyone who is planning to apply to competitive colleges, as the remaining sequence at our school would then be Bio CP, Chem CP and Physics CP. The honors track at our school consists of Chem H, Bio H, Physics AP, and either Chem AP/IB or Bio AP/IB. My son was able to fit both of the last 2 in by taking a “0” period class. Depending on your D’s area of interest for college, the CP track could really limit her choices in college. </p>
<p>It sounds like parents in your District might know something that the school is not admitting to. If you have any doubts, than you might seriously consider having your D evaluated for the gifted program. I would agree that normally I would not consider the designation important, but if there is some doubt about her being able to get into the honors track in high school without it, it might make sense. Good luck!</p>
<p>texaspg
We have three high schools in our county. I’ll be sending my daughter to the largest school by far (about 2,300) and the one with the most opportunities by far. The other schools have about 300 and 700 students.</p>
<p>takeitallin</p>
<p>You hit the nail on the head. It’s the borderline situations that I am worried about. I just wonder if the gifted classification will make a difference in those boderline situations. I also think that the “transition year” (first year of middle school, first year of high school) may be the most challenging as far as getting proper placement since the counselors don’t know the kids well. Food for thought. I really don’t want to go through the process, but may do it just in case those situations come up. The reality is that we are living in a time of limited resources.</p>
<p>In our high school (similar size at 2500) the gifted designation does make a difference as those kids are automatically placed in the high school honors program as long as they have earned a minimum of a B grade in their middle school classes. The borderline cases would be those who were not identified as gifted, but who had outstanding performance in middle school. Those are the kids who may be left out of the high school honors program even if they clearly belong there. Definitely the squeaky parents get the results as long as the numbers work out. Those kids who do not make the honors program would have to take the CP route and work hard to earn top grades, and then petition again at a later date to be moved up to honors. By then, they have already lost out on some of the honors offerings and it may limit how far they can go in high school.</p>
<p>Again, it really depends on your District and your high school. I would think that since she is already taking Alg. 1 and Spanish 1 in middle school that she would be placed in honors in high school, but policies vary from place to place.</p>
<p>Now for the previously unspoken part. I live in a community where it frequently matters more who you know than what you know. I have been living here for 10 years, but am not from here. After watching things for a number of years and seeing what happened with a lot of kids, I realized that I definitely was not living in a meritocracy… Class placements depend on factors other than grades and scores, particularly at the middle school level. </p>
<p>So, the reason that I am concerned with the gifted classification even though my daughter has very strong grades and test scores is to try to make sure that she gets placed based on her performance and not on other factors… I’ve made a couple of calls to parents that have dealt with the same issues as I have at the middle school level and they assure me that the placements in high school are based on performance- the ACT Explore, standardized test scores, and past grades. If that is true, then we could skip this process.</p>
<p>I don’t have anything constructive to say, but I’m just glad I went to a high school where anyone could get into an AP course as long as they had a B in the prerequisite class…upward mobility was fairly easy if you worked hard, and people’s fates weren’t determined by what they did in middle school.</p>
<p>I have not seen the placement based on standardized test scores in high school since many don’t offer them at all in middle school. </p>
<p>My first kid is in college but I remember receiving a letter 5 years ago after the first 6 week grading period from the PreAP Biology teacher that it is highly recommended that anyone scoring a 69 or below (D) move to a lower level Biology in order to do better. It sounded like there were many in that class who just could not handle it.</p>
<p>In public schools, “who you know” is more about being a vocal (and, at times, if required, demanding) parent. Not to put too fine a point on it, but your child is “worth” $5-8k to that school. They will, in all likelihood, give you what you want without the gifted designation, which is meaningless as a practical matter.</p>
<p>Just be a strong advocate for your child. (Many parents wrongly advocate for advanced classes, which is why some kids are in there and unprepared.)</p>
<p>I absolutely agree that many parents wrongly advocate for advanced classes when their child doesn’t have the track record to do well in the class. </p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for their input. This has really helped me mesh it out.</p>