<p>Given the state of the economy, and the affects of the sequester on defense contractors, the job market is tight; even for engineers. If you don't get a good job at a prominent firm lined up, should you consider grad school as an alternative, hoping that the additional specialization will make you more attractive to employers, and that the economy may be in better shape in a couple of years? How does one get information on the job market in a given are of engineering. Specifically interested in Aerospace here, but generally across the entire engineering spectrum is fine too.</p>
<p>After you get that first job, and start gaining experience, where you got your degree makes less and less of a difference, so, it seems to me that the first job out of school is critical to leveraging your degree optimally. Getting a foot in the door at a prominent firm, and gaining experience from the leading engineers in the industry is preferable assuming that you are otherwise a team player, realize that while you hopefully can contribute something, your contributions are likely to be of limited value initially, and that you are a hard worker in general.</p>
<p>I think your first job is very important. I think that you should look very hard for a suitable position. Don’t be passive. </p>
<p>Also, don’t apply to ads from recruiting firms. Copy the job ad into Google and find the company directly. Those recruiting firms often prevent you from getting a job because the company has to pay a commission if they hire you. In a down economy, applying to those places is a kiss of death because they will flood the companies with your resume and make you virtually unemployable. I’d also be careful about putting your resume on LinkedIn for the same reason. </p>
<p>However, if all else fails, I think that graduate school is preferable to working as a barrister at Starbucks. PhD students often earn a living wage.</p>
<p>I would caution you on starting a Ph.D. program if you are not fully committed to research. You get a much bigger bump in potential earnings with a Masters degree and it takes less time. If you are unsure about a Ph.D. a Masters can also help you figure out if it is the right road for you.</p>
<p>If you prefer getting a job after your B.S. then that should be the focus of your efforts. Take advantage of your university’s career center and go to the job fairs. At my school, Illinois Tech, we are seeing record numbers of employers coming to interview students. Also, if you know students who have gone on to get jobs in industry, they may be willing to help you get an interview.</p>
<p>I passed on Northrop Gruman mainly because i think i would have a better opportunity to grow in the “private” sector. </p>
<p>There are companies out there for engineers besides defense contractors like Eaton,Square D, Siemens,GE, and Schneider electric. </p>
<p>I love the the company I’m at ,Eaton, and the position. The only thing this position did not meet on my checklist was location. I picked the company on the assumption that i could move up and to a better location down the road. </p>
<p>I’m not an expert on Defense Contractor jobs. I heard mixed reviews. My personal view is that i cannot say with confidence that either is better.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad, My son graduated last week. At the direction of his school’s career center, he made a LinkedIn account. A recruiter contacted him and gave him some tips for customizing his resume for a company that is highly regarded in our town. He was grateful for their help and verbally authorized them to send… ‘something’ associating him with the recruiter (I don’t know what). </p>
<p>If he now has the ‘kiss of death’ due to naivet</p>
<p>I think he can and should always apply to the openings on his own. </p>
<p>It may be that the company would owe a 20-30% commission on his first year’s salary to the headhunter if the headhunter submitted your son’s resume with his permission and your son is hired. Perhaps the company would be willing to pay that. </p>
<p>
[quote]
If he now has the ‘kiss of death’ due to naivet</p>
<p>CRD:
"Applying to those places is a kiss of death because they will flood the companies with your resume and make you virtually unemployable. "</p>
<p>It’s not just kind of upsetting, it’s shocking. You implied in the above statement that he’s permanently screwed. I don’t follow my own advice and I’mPanicked.</p>
<p>…He said he updated the resume per the recruiter’s advice and sent it to them. For once he has done something in a timely manner <frowny face="">.</frowny></p>
<p>Well at least this particular recruiter consulted him. I think he should politely let the recruiter know that he only authorized his resume to be used for that one company. </p>
<p>I think he should place a copyright on his LinkedIn Resume. I’m not sure how to handle this, but google it. I’m sure it’s been discussed somewhere. </p>
<p>Is your son in a field with relatively low demand? If the field is in high demand, companies are willing to pay the commission so he might be ok. It’s only when there are many more applicants than jobs is the headhunter approach a real disadvantage.</p>
<p>This book is a bit dated, but it’s paid for itself thousands of times over for me. There are newer editions, but this author is very good. </p>
<p>I also remember working at a small company and we couldn’t interview headhunter resumes because we didn’t want to pay the commission. That has also stuck with me. </p>
<p>Good luck to your son, and DontPanic don’t panic.</p>
<p>His major is computer engineering and the place he worked last summer has taken him back on, with the understanding that he will leave when he gets something ‘better’ now that he’s graduated. But his resume is only so-so (GPA 3.2). </p>
<p>To think he is screwed, even with just this company, is incredible. We have a friend who works there, and when we saw her at a party this weekend, we mentioned he was applying there and she said he should use her as a reference. I’m going to tell him to apply separately to the posted opening and let the chips fall where they may. And to remove his resume from Linked in. I knew he made a LinkedIn profile, but i didn’t know he put his resume on it. And if I had known that, I wouldn’t have realized the implications. </p>
<p>His sister’s school (same major) gave regional employers access to students’ resumes, but didn’t put them out there for the world to see.</p>
<p>The problem is that the recruiter did in fact do his job, and submit your son’s resume with his permission. You really want to be careful not to make it look like he’s trying to deprive the recruiter of the commission that he’s earned. That might make him look unethical. </p>
<p>I guess for the future, it’s important for him to get his resume to companies that he’s interested in first, and keep a tally. This way if recruiters approach him and let him know the company, he can say that he’s already submitted a resume there. </p>
<p>Perhaps it’s not as common anymore for recruiters to submit resumes without the candidates permission. </p>
<p>Computer engineering is still pretty hot, so I think your son will be ok.</p>
<p>I disagree with Classicrockdad. I have been in the recruiting industry for almost 20 years. The question a candidate needs to ask a recruiter is “are you retained by this company”. If they are retained, going around them will put the candidate very quickly in the “no” pile. I have had candidates try to do that and the company has immediately rejected them for being unethical. If a recruiter is retained (which good recruiters are) than the company looks at them as a business partner. I get paid some money up front to do searches and get the second half of my fee when I place someone.
As far as LinkedIn goes - that is how people are finding jobs right now! It is crazy to not have a LinkedIn profile if you are looking for work. Companies should not accepted LinkedIn profiles from recruiters.</p>
<p>I can certainly see how some companies would avoid hiring from headhunters, but ultimately, these headhunters would be out of a job if there was no market for that kind of service, so someone must be hiring from these guys.</p>
<p>It’s contingency recruiters that I would avoid. </p>
<p>ahsmuoh, you do seem to be a retained recruiter. You are absolutely right that retained recruiters are helpful. </p>
<p>You must know the difference between a contingency recruiter and a retained recruiter.</p>
<p>In the particular case described above, even if it’s a contingency recruiter, the individual has submitted the resume with permission. He or she has earned the commission if there is to be one.</p>
<p>In most cases of contingency recruiters, the job can often be found without the recruiter. Certain jobs, especially in startups, are often only available through retained recruiters. Those are ok to work with. As you say, the candidate needs to understand who he is dealing with.</p>
<p>I can have him find out if this is retained or contingency, but I’m guessing this is contingency, because (1) the company is long established as one of the better employers in our region (2) his resume is probably on the modest side for this company and (3) we easily found a posting for an entry level software engineer on their site. </p>
<p>If his chances for this company are now diminished, well OK, perhaps he wouldn’t have discovered this particular opportunity on his own anyway, but to think that he must now constantly stay one step ahead in ALL cases is extremely disheartening. </p>
<p>It’s one thing to be on Linkedin, it’s another to post your resume there for any recruiter to pick up, and his school shouldn’t have encouraged this (he never would have thought of it on his own).</p>