How is ND's Prestige

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Notre Dame
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<p>As someone who lived in Cville when husband worked at UVa for seven years - and whose son currently attends ND - I can tell you these are two <em>very</em> different experiences. </p>

<p>UVa is southern, although many of the kids are from Northern Virginia/DC. It has a very southern "proper" atmosphere. There is a lot of school pride, but it is more for going to Mr. Jefferson's university than it is a bonding experience. At football games the boys wear shorts, flip flops, and ties, and the girls are in sundresses. They do not have the basketball following of Duke or UNC, nor do they have the football following of Florida State or Virginia Tech. They do very well in athletics, but it's not like the students pride themselves on that - it's just kind of an expected thing, business as usual.</p>

<p>At ND, the atmosphere is family, family, family. The day you set foot in your dorm, you have thousands of new family members waiting to help you. Academically, ND is as tough as UVa, if not more so in some areas, and the kids definitely are work hard/play hard. I have to say, overall the students I have met are more unique and definitely more clever. I know, you probably think that's a weird assessment, but it's just true. I guess I'd say they have a quicker wit, and a broader sense of humor. They definitely take people where they are and accept them. They also appreciate each other's differences. I'm not sure you'd see that as much at UVa.</p>

<p>Just some thoughts - rambling at best. I'm sure I could come up with more comparisons if you need it (like UVa being much more recognized regionally, and ND being recognized nationally, and the alumni factor, etc.). Good luck.</p>

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<p>Very nice post Docmom, thanks! Speaking of which, I think I am one away from 500 :). That is hard to believe.</p>

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<p>Docmom, I like that. By college everyone should be mature enough to accept each other's differences. We chose ND over UVA and other "southern preppy" schools because it's time to shine for our uniquness not sameness. I look foward to my son growing by acceting others and being accepted for his individual God -given characteristics.</p>

<p>High school is about fitting in--college is about growing into ourselves.</p>

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<p>docmom,</p>

<p>i cannot disagree with you more, and i find some of your ascertations to be quite obtuse.</p>

<p>Yes UVa is "southern" in the reasoning that its...situated in the south - but the whole "proper" thing you seem to be putting a negative spin on is neither very prominent, nor a negative. I'm from new jersey and im in a fraternity - which some people are beginning to think is the last remaining southern aspect at UVa. I don't feel as if properness is getting shoved down my throat (infact probably the very opposite.) Also, students at UVa don't need to pride themselves on their atheletic teams accomplishments to have pride in their school. </p>

<p>I find your remark about the "family family family" odd. While maybe you have some remarkable communication with your son who attends nd, I can assure you its most probably the same dorm experience that most other colleges have - except you know, single sex. I went to an all boys high school - I loved it - but I would never throw myself back into any sort of single sex situation again. Its not as if ND has 300 first years, it has 2000. 2000 first years at ND and 3200 first years at virginia is not something i would call vastly more personal.</p>

<p>Also, I never said UVa was harder/better than ND, I believe I said UVa is just as good. Obviously ND will have some stronger departments, just as UVa has departments that are stronger than ND. But to get down to it, looking at the nrc departmental rankings, the programs that ND ranks higher than UVa in are at best marginally better (save philosophy) and the departments UVa are ranked higher in are for the most part ranked much higher. Also, how can you judge the workload at virginia? If your husband was a professor and he didn't teach a difficult course, thats his fault. Otherwise I don't see how you can make a comparison. Also, every good school has a work hard/play hard mentality. </p>

<p>I also find the "the students I have met are more unique and clever" statement rather amusing. considering you were just a professors wife at UVa, I doubt you had that much interaction with the students. But even if you did, meeting students as a professors wife, and meetings students as "my friend's mom" are 2 completely different things. Also considering Notre Dame is much more homogenous than UVa, I find it hard to believe that the students are more "unique." I like how you take your opinion and then state it to be "just true."</p>

<p>No doubt Notre Dame is a great school and it would be a great choice for anyone. But when choosing between a school like ND and a school like Virginia, you have to choose based on personal preference - if you can see yourself on that campus. You aren't going to miss out on anything by going to Virginia over ND or by going to ND over Virginia.</p>

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<p>Well, I'm chuckling, because now you're going to get it :)</p>

<p>My husband was <em>not</em> a prof, and I had more contact with students at both UVa and ND than most spouses ever do. Without giving away his career, let me just say you have made an untrue assumption. I know several UVa grads, and several ND grads, as well as many current students at both schools, and my assessment is, indeed valid. I have experience at both; you do not.</p>

<p>Virginia is "proper" in that the face presented at all times (and maybe even at parties) is more formal, prestigious, etc. Even among my adult friends in our 40's, the parties of UVa alums have a different feel than the parties of ND alums. They just do social stuff differently. You cannot deny my example of dress attire at football games (at most schools a casual event) is true. On a day to day basis, manners have what I might call a disproportionate emphasis at Virginia. It's not a bad thing, but it is different.</p>

<p>I really would even assess that ND kids have more pure fun. I will tell you that my son's roommate his first two years (from NJ and went to HS in the city) and several other kids were talking once about how their friends who decided on Georgetown are not having as much crazy fun as kids at ND.</p>

<p>I guess I would say kids at UVa and ND are all cerebral, but it just seems at UVa the atmosphere is overwhelmingly cerebral - not as much balance in the students as individuals. And both schools are homogenous in their student bodies. </p>

<p>You said, "You aren't going to miss out on anything by going to Virginia over ND or by going to ND over Virginia." Please tell me how you know this to be true. You think all top 20 schools are the same? </p>

<p>It's important to correct you here that ND is by no means single sex. The dorms are single sex, and to many of the students there that is a benefit, not a detriment. I'd also like to point out the hilarious irony of you being so adamantly against single sex living situations yet you are in a fraternity. </p>

<p>Let me just add that I have complete respect for UVa and loved our years there. But the atmospheres are not the same, nor is the student body, the philosophy, the focus, and the later direction of the graduates. Just the fact that you don't get the "ND family" thing speaks volumes about what you don't know.</p>

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<p>you know I would just like to point out that while people like to stress how ND students tend to be "cerebral" and the "family, family, family" atmosphere - it's not always great. I've seen a lot of things going on in dorms and heard other stories first hand that don't always fit with a "family environment." That and many times I've seen people who you end up thinking, "and how the hell did they get in here..." </p>

<p>to DocMom - you hit one nail right on the head, there is a lot of "fun" to be found in the dorms on weekends. And as to the single sex dorm situations. While I don't have a problem with them, (and I came from a single-sex HS), I do believe they have a detrimental effect on how some percentage of the student body interacts with each other. Believe me to blame the dorms is unfair, but I think it contributes to some degree...</p>

<p>Overall I enjoyed my experience at ND, but it would be disengenous to say it doesn't have its share of the same problems you will find everywhere.</p>

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<p>i read incorrectly, when you said worked at uva, i just assumed he taught.</p>

<p>I'm well aware ND is coed - the 2 people i know there are girls. Also, living in a frat house has nothing to do with living a dorm - mind you I don't live in the frat house. Frat house is literally...a house...with frat letters. Having a dorm where you can't even have a girl come in (or vice versa) because some parietal (that is the word right?) vs. a uva dorm where theres an RA who just tries to keep you from getting killed/frat house where some girls practically live there are completely different entities. I'm not against single sex living...obviously you're going to room with someone of the same sex...its just the strictness of the system.</p>

<p>You have a problem with shirt and tie thing that I don't really understand. Besides the fact that the current football coach has done a lot to phased it out - I don't understand whats bad about it. If it does anything, then it makes getting completely wasted a "classy" event - because football games at UVa are first and foremost a place to get drunk. Also these "proper students" know how to do very improper things. Did you ever go to the sh itshow known as foxfields while you were at UVa?</p>

<p>and btw, uva is 66% white, vs. ND being 78% white. still the overwhelming majority at both schools - but i'd say uva is vastly more diverse.</p>

<p>I'm not going to argue the "fun" assesment. I can't disprove you, just as you can't disprove me. But I can rest assured I'm not jealous of your son's social life. </p>

<p>Yes, I definately believe you won't miss out anything by going to ND over UVa or the other way around. Obviously not all top schools are made equal. I think if you come out of MIT with an engineering degree you'll have a leg up over ND/Virginia engineers. Just as I believe if you come out of emory or washu for premed you'll have a leg over virginia/nd premed graduates. But I've never met an unsuccessful UVa grad (I know many) and I've never met an unsuccesful ND grad (I know of 2). I mean, I can't say absolutely for certain who has the best prospects, but I can tell you for certain that a higher % of UVa grads go to grad school vs. ND, and I also can tell you that UVa comm school graduates get better offers in the business world than ND students do - especially in dc, nyc, and boston. My sister did comm school - she was interviewed side by side with students from wharton, northwestern, unc, columbia, dartmouth, harvard - she never mentioned ND. Regardless, she makes more money 2 years out of school than i could hope to make in 10 years out of school (the woes of a history major ;-))</p>

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<p>Yes, UVa is more of a regional, east coast school, and I agree in the general business world <em>on the east coast</em> you have a leg up. <em>That being said</em> in any other major metropolitan area ND is more recognizable than UVa. I have lived many places across the US, including several college towns, and I've had to explain UVa's prestige more times than I can count (which seemed crazy to me, I admit). Whether it's valid or not, I've never had to do that for ND. In fact, it seems people are more impressed with it than I am! Most of them don't even know why - it's a perception. Certainly their alumni are not only spread more evenly across the country but are far and away the most helpful to each other. ND people just view Notre Dame as a deeply rooted attachment to other ND people. All ND alums are not great, either, I've met a couple of real winners, but the vast majority are just phenomenal people, caring, accomplished, and great givers of their time and financial means to other causes.</p>

<p>I actually like the tie/sundress at games thing, but your point was poor - you're basically saying it's like putting lipstick on a pig (ties on drunks). Look, I'm not knocking UVa, just calling it like it is. It is NOT Notre Dame. It can never be Notre Dame, and it shouldn't be - it is what it is. Schools should be who they are and be very good at it. To me UVa does this very, very well. But it's not the same thing. Equal, but definitely not the same experience.</p>

<p>Kids who prefer the UVa atmosphere are not the same kids who would prefer the ND atmosphere. Athletic events at ND, notably football, are a completely bonding experience for the student body. As we both agreed, at UVa it's kind of just something to do - not a real passion, but fun. And let me reiterate, that's okay, but it <em>is</em> a difference in the experience. </p>

<p>And Nemo, I think at ND it's common for kids to think single sex dorms have a detrimental effect. I'm not sure poor gender relations are not a national phenomenon, however, and possibly generational as well, but that's another thread for another day :)</p>

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<p>Believe me I have no problems with single sex dorms....truth be told my only pet peeve is football weekend. Especially when you're walking back to your room, minding your own business and some family is standing in the hallway outside their son's door and I'm like, "get out of my way....guy wearing a towel who would like to get to his room" That is truly annoying.</p>

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<p>When it comes down to a decision like UVa vs. ND, buy a t-shirt from each school. Take a jog around the block wearing one, then a jog around the block wearing the other. You will know by the time you finish the second jog which school is for you. It's crazy to try to decide between two such wonderful and roughly evenly matched schools using pure logic...emotion has to make this final decision.</p>

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<p>Prestige? That's a very difficult thing to measure. However, I can tell you (as will anyone else, especially docmom and nemo) that NDs alumni network is unparalleled. You will never encounter such an attachment with any other school. This goes along with the "family" thing. If you go in for a job interview after having graduating ND, and your interviewer is an alum, you already have a HUGE step above the other applicants.</p>

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<p>Agreed, we stick together. That is part of the reason that legacy is such a huge thing in reference to admissions. Like it or hate it, Domers help Domers and you will find that to be true from the second you become a part of the family until you leave this Earth.</p>

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<p>I live in Texas and have family from coast to coast. All the locals, plus just about all of my family would oooh and aaah at ND more than Vandy.</p>

<p>I have heard that ND is just a "heard of" school outside of North America, but in North America more people know to respect ND than they do lesser known ivies and top 20 universities.</p>

<p>To the OP: Your friends from the UK might think they're getting into a more well known school going to vander until they've been living in the US for a decade and realize much more people on our side of the pond give ND more weight.</p>

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<p>I was in a random restaurant today and wearing an ND polo and an alumni came up to me and talked to me about the "brotherhood" and afterward his wife commented on how "we always find each other"...ND is a family</p>

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<p>I'm not sure about prestige, but my D. is there and her friends are all living in my house and doing their laundry here and eating our food and we talk a lot. D's friends are at the state flagship, a jesuit university, Kenyon, Reed, Amherst, Humboldt, Brandeis, and MIT. </p>

<p>The thing I noticed about ND and Brandeis is that they pull kids out of themselves in a way that the other schools did not. All these kids are very bright, nominally religious or secular, public school in a diverse but striving or upper middle class community. The kids at the other schools ended up in an environment with other students kind of like them and it was not as much of a disruptive experience. D. at ND had to deal with a very traditional Catholic student body who tend to be politically conservative and orthodox in their religious beliefs. She had to think hard about who she was and why she was there and what she thought was right. It opened her world in a way I cannot quite articulate and she embraced the faith she was raised in but not in the way you would expect. She took a Catholic Social Teaching class and decided that although Mass was a lot of mumbo jumbo the stance of the church on human dignity is worth learning more about. </p>

<p>I'm not sure I sent my kid to ND to turn into a raving save the world type but it happened and I have faith her decision is informed both intellectually and spiritually and I am glad she was led to ND.</p>

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<p>ND is a great school, but where are you from that you think it's diverse? And not just diverse, but enough so that it is a disruptive experience?</p>

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<p>I think she was arguing that ND was a bit more intellectually agitating, not in the "socially annoying" kind of way, but "chemical reaction" kind of way.</p>

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<p>kevdude -
You appear to be the go to guy @ ND :)<br>
My son is an incoming Freshman- (a Carroll Hall vermin) Regarding books- I assume the bookstore sells used books-yes? Is there anywhere else he can look for used books? A student website perhaps?</p>

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<p>Amazon.com. Best deals I've ever gotten.</p>

<p>Also, try betterworld.com, it's a used book company based in South Bend that raises money for global literacy. I've used it sometimes, and I have to plug it because a relative of mine is one of the executives.</p>

<p>Sorry for hijacking the thread. Back on topic - coming from just outside New York city, in an area with a high Irish-Catholic population and a historical connection to ND (ND-Army games at the Polo Grounds was the origin of the term "subway alumni") I can tell you easily that I have not met a single person who hasn't heard of ND, and quite a few have done a double take and gone "ND... what? Wow." I would almost go so far as to say that it might be seen as more prestigious than some of the lower Ivys (don't shoot me, you self-righteous Ivy Leaguers, the term exists. Get used to is), and certainly most of the schools in the south.</p>

<p>But, that's pretty isolated, geographically. So take it for what it's worth.</p>

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<p>To the U.S. parochial school students it may be more prestigous than the "upper Ivies."</p>