<p>Hi, I'm a senior looking at Notre Dame and would like to know a little bit more about it from students. I really like the community feel that Notre Dame provides, but I definitely have concerns. I've been told multiple times not to apply from friends, but I'd like the real story from students.</p>
<p>I've been told that Notre Dame is essentially just another four years of high school, as in, everyone acts like they're still in high school. I currently go to a Catholic high school, and I'm excited to leave. It's not that I'm unhappy, just ready to move on. I don't want a university that's basically just another four years of high school with different people. </p>
<p>I've also been told that Notre Dame lacks diversity, and from statistics that I've seen, it seems to be pretty true. However, I'm agnostic myself, pretty liberal and I'm not Irish, or even Caucasian. I'm worried that I'll feel out of place, or that those around me will not really understand my views or perspectives. I don't mind people not agreeing with me, I just don't want to be looked down upon for my different views.</p>
<p>Could anyone enlighten more on these two topics? Thank you so much.</p>
<p>dude. ND is a top-20 research university, with a reputation that is internationally recognized. who in the world is telling you this ?? it is not high school, and nobody is going to look down on you for whatever views you might hold. since you think your worldview is different from the prevailing one of the student body, you as an individual would thus experince MORE diversity and challenge in that vein, not less. </p>
<p>you should go there, and check it out. </p>
<p>with all that said, it is not for everybody. if you are looking for a wild and wooly 40K-student flagship state-school type experience or something, then go do that.</p>
<p>First, if you come to notre dame and it seems like your high school, then your high school must be pretty damn amazing and I would like to know what high school you go to. Second, I’m not catholic or caucasian and i don’t believe diversity is an issue at all. I’ve never been judged, or witnessed anyone else being judged or harassed for their beliefs or views. In fact guys from my section last year (extreme liberal and extreme conservatives) debated a few times and talked about their beliefs instead of belittling each other. The only way you can know for sure if ND is the right fit is to visit or at least talk to several ND students that you know. Hopefully they can give you a full picture of ND. Still, I’m not saying ND is the perfect college, there are a lot of issues that all colleges have to deal with and ND still has some negatives too (i.e: weather from november to march, Reslife, etc…). But I believe the positives of ND (too many to list) greatly outweigh the negatives.</p>
<p>Those who want to attend a university where everyone will agree with their views should not bother with Notre Dame. And that applies to conservative Irish Catholics as well as liberal atheists of color. If you will feel “out of place” because many of your fellow students do not share your agnostic liberal views, then you’re not really looking for diversity, are you?<br>
You might ask your friends to explain why they think that Notre Dame is not a good fit for you, but you will find that your peers are usually not the best source of information about specific colleges.</p>
<p>That’s not really what I’m worried about. I go to a Catholic, primarily white high school right now. It’s not that I’m worried I won’t fit in to ND. I feel like I fit in just fine at the Catholic high school that I’m at right now. However, at my high school, everyone’s kind of homogeneous. I don’t want to sound ungrateful, I like my hs. No one has harassed me about my views at all and I’m very familiar/accepting of their views as I completely understand where they come from.</p>
<p>But although I’m happy, I still want something different. I want to go somewhere where the students vary a lot in their views (aka there’s a lot of diversity), not because I want to fit in with them (more than likely, I won’t fit in with them), but because I like being around things I’m not used to and I like hearing about different perspectives and religions/politics etc that I’m not used to hearing. </p>
<p>And my information actually came from a student from my high school, who’s now a senior at ND. He likes it, but also says that he’s not sure if ND is somewhere that I would enjoy being for another four years. </p>
<p>I didn’t intend to stir up anger/insinuate that I think people at ND are ignorant and intolerant (I absolutely KNOW that’s not true and I would never look at a school that was this way) and I’m really drawn to the family feel of ND because that’s something about the high school I attend now that I really really enjoy now. </p>
<p>Also, I’m not sure if I can visit ND just because I live on the East Coast, and my grandmother’s sick but out of the country, and my Mom’s really struggling to be able to afford to not only take care of her but to visit her as well… :/</p>
<p>I don’t want to sound ungrateful at all, I really appreciate your responses, and I don’t want to seem like I’m flaming ND at all, I’m just trying to clarify :)</p>
<p>It’s not just about the nature of the students who attend Notre Dame, but its also the culture/experience created by Notre Dame itself–it does not offer a location which affords much diversity of experience and the social life is narrow (again, limited most significantly by location). The students who choose to attend Notre Dame do so proudly, without wanting more or something else, and therefore the Notre Dame experience is relatively uniform and homogeneous.</p>
<p>When compared to Notre Dame, Georgetown and Boston College may be considered “less Catholic”; however, the bigger difference is the diversity of experiences offerred at these very different institutions.</p>
<p>Okay, so ND may not be in the middle of a bustling metropolis like Boston or DC, but I fail to see how not being in such an environment creates a homogeneous experience marked by little diversity and a narrow social life. The benefits of diversity are essentially meaningless unless students actively engage the diversity and seek to mature and learn from its lessons. Simply living in the middle of it all affords an opportunity, but not an instant change or life changing revelation. The beauty of ND is that it attempts to foster ongoing dialogue among students in an intimate, family-like environment. In such a setting even the most unique and obscure of experiences is shared at will. I cannot speak for BC or Georgetown, but I can confidently say that ND is a diverse campus that actively engages diversity in a forum-like environment. Bottom line, what good is the diversity if there is no will or desire among the student body to actually probe it. At ND the students have this desire and the administration has created a safe environment in which to engage it.</p>
<p>Stereotypes exist for every school–stereotypical students, social experiences, etc. There is FAR LESS deviation from the mean student/experience at Notre Dame than at other comparably strong academic institutions–any argument to the contrary is simply unfounded. What is peculiar about you is that you defy what most ND affiliates seem to embrace–that the place is what it is–take it or leave it.</p>
<p>hoyasaxa1–are you or were you a ND student? If so, how do you know so much about what is offered at the other institutions? If not, how do you know so much about what is offered at ND?</p>
<p>Also, please give examples of what you mean by the “social life is narrow”.</p>
<p>Since you are so sure of yourself then I assume you have specific examples to back your assertion that the ND experience is all too homogeneous. Your point is based on dated stereotypes from perhaps twenty years ago. Things have changed and are changing and any current ND student will likely attest to this. If you choose to believe the stereotypes from years ago then you are simply living in the past or frankly do not know enough about ND to make a learned observation about it today.</p>
<p>not a current student or alum (never would be)–tell me, what is the social life like at ND? What do you do when you’re not in class? I’m not saying that one can’t love ND or have a great experience there, but the fact that you can’t admit that the options are SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than at institutions located in more rich cultural/social centers is unbelievable to me (and that, consequently and understandbly, a certain type of student is going to be more inclined to find ND appealing as a result–i.e. homogeneous student body, even if diverse geographically, ethnically, etc.). Diversity is not just about drawing students from different backgrounds but also about providing diverse opportunities for social/cultural exploration. South Bend, really???</p>
<p>This diversity thing has gotten way out of hand. Some years ago a Jewish friend of mine expressed displeasure over the fact that her daughter had attended a summer enrichment program where she expected to find diversity but instead encountered “too many white Christians”; this was obviously not the kind of “diversity” she happened to be looking for, and of course we know that she has a lot of company in this department (this is certainly not the kind most institutions are looking for either). To my mind these things aren’t supposed to matter, but there are forces in play to ensure that they do. I believe that quota systems and racism are simply wrong, that NO ONE should be either punished or rewarded for his or her background. Although I love interacting with people from different cultures and social strata, I recoil from the artificiality of this academic shibboleth. When “diversity” happens naturally that’s wonderful. When it’s the result of an elaborate social-engineerinhg project it’s- well, the result of a social-engineering project.</p>
<p>hoyasaxa1, first of all, you need to read my posts more carefully. I never once suggested that South Bend offered a similar cultural experience equal to that of places like DC or Boston. So, quell your disbelief. Interesting how you are trying to shift the focus away from ND and onto the city of South Bend. It seems as though you are insinuating that any university that is not located in a diverse, metropolitan area offers a narrow education and social life. By your logic it would seem that students who attend Dartmouth or Cornell are in a similar situation. Are they receiving narrow educations as well?</p>
<p>As far as social activities go ND students do just about everything. Debate groups, service opportunities and clubs, political clubs, nightclubs, plays and symphonies, bars, trips to museums, day trips to Chicago (I went to Chicago like every other week or so). You name it, ND students do it. We may not have skyscrapers or a Korean or Indian restaurant on every corner, but we have a lot. Also, compared to most of Indiana South Bend is pretty diverse. The Latino community is increasing in numbers and ND’s local outreach continues to provide services for the poor and vulnerable. These encounters help ND students paint a complete and just world view. </p>
<p>Still waiting on more examples of how ND provides a narrow and homogenous education experience.</p>
<p>Yes, I believe students at Dartmouth and Cornell (and Sewanee, Colby, Bowdoin, etc.) do have more limited social/cultural experiences and opportunities during their undergraduate years than individuals at Georgetown, Harvard, Berkeley, Columbia, etc… It doesn’t mean that their student bodies aren’t as geographically or ethnically diverse, but the student who is going to choose ND (or Dartmouth, Cornell, etc.) is likely to not value the same things, socially or culturally, as part of their undergraduate experience as the student who chooses Harvard or Georgetown–and vice versa. In general, most of my friends at Georgetown did not chose to even apply to ND because they wanted a more cosmopolitan, diverse social experience; MY SIBLING, who attends ND, wanted a more homogeneous, defined, “bubble” experience (and he did not get in to Georgetown), and he certainly has gotten that.</p>
<p>I understand what you are saying and I agree on some points. I agree that many are desirous of the bubble experience but I do not believe that these students hope to leave ND a proverbial drone who has an all too singular understanding of different cultures and lifestyles. Students who come to ND know they will be changed through interaction with a diverse student body, a strong education grounded in the liberal arts, and an atmosphere which promotes forum and dialogue. Yes, the surroundings are far from cosmopolitan but just because the environment may not be overtly metropolitan does not mean that ND students are deprived of an education which provides them an accurate world-view.</p>
<p>Well, at least give me that the ND world view is an ivory-tower one–my sibling recounts how many of his friends at ND rarely, if ever, leave the campus, that there are many more discussions about football and drinking than about the liberal arts education they are “receiving,” and that the academic climate is far from being intellectual, provoking or introspective–these are problems that the ND administration has identified and earmarked as in need of change. Hopefully it will happen, just as the “diversifying” of the student body occurred when ND finally admitted that it should (at least in terms of ethnicity) approximately a decade ago.</p>
<p>If you want a vibrant, diverse, urban experience, you don’t really need to go to college at all. Just move to a big city, get an entry-level job in a restaurant or retail establishment, and you will be plunged into a sea of diversity. With the bonus that there are no pesky classes, papers, or exams to worry about. And no tuition!</p>
<p>Seriously, I do not understand the emphasis some place on the whole urban experience as essential to a college education. It’s not. Many excellent liberal arts colleges, and most flagship state universities, are located outside major metropolitan areas, and somehow their students seem to have positive experiences.</p>
<p>Excellent point, claremarie–yes there are more than a few LAC in “rural” areas and state flagships in non-major metro areas. Hmmm, like the two Indiana flagships. </p>
<p>Hoayasaxa1, ND is not for everyone, and it sounds as if that’s you. Every college is different and with 3,000 of them, there’s some place for every student. I think “fit” is at times overrated, but there’s no need to be miserable for four years either.</p>
<p>No one ever tried to say ND wasn’t a school big on sports, intramural or otherwise. As for administrations, I guarantee you every college in this country has things on which they’d like to improve. Many students also don’t feel the need to leave the beautiful campus, as so many opportunities are brought to campus. However, it’s very easy to leave campus and partake of other South Bend area opportunities. Chicago is ~ 1 hr. away and easily accessed by the Toll Road or train. Is that big enough and intellectual enough?</p>
<p>“In general, most of my friends at Georgetown did not chose to even apply to ND because they wanted a more cosmopolitan, diverse social experience”</p>
<p>Which is kind of funny, given that Georgetown is located in one of the most affluent and non-diverse parts of DC. There isn’t even a Metro stop nearby because residents were afraid that it would attract the wrong element to their cosmopolitan community. You have to walk a LONG way to find some poor black or Hispanic people (other than those who work on campus or in the neighborhood as domestics). Whereas Notre Dame students can meet these people by walking several blocks off campus…I guarantee you that there are far more “regular” people living within a one-mile radius of Notre Dame’s campus than there are within a one-mile radius of the Georgetown campus.</p>
<p>Claremarie, you are missing my point completely–yes, Georgetown is in an affluent neighborhood of Washington, DC; but unlike at ND, the Georgetown students do not live exclusively within the bubble of the university or the (beautiful) neighborhood that surrounds the school. Washington, DC is an integral part of the academic, cultural, and social experience of Georgetown undergraduates. Internships and academic experiences on Capitol Hill, National Institutes of Health, embassies, the Smithsonian, The World Bank, Supreme Court, etc. are STANDARD experiences at Georgetown, and the social life includes “traditional” college venues (eg sporting events, dorm/apartment/townhouse parties, clubs/organizations) as well as all that the town of Georgetown and the city of Washington have to offer (bars, clubs, restaurants, cultural events, Kennedy Center, National Theatre, Arena Stage). Oh, and by the way, it’s not a long way to walk to “find some poor black or Hispanic people”–not that you would likely be interested in “finding” any of “those”–you would likely want to stick with the “regular” people around Notre Dame. Georgetown actually has one of the most established and respected outreach programs in the country through which the majority of undergraduates are involved during their time at GU–whether that’s through Best Buddies (founded at Georgetown), Sursum Corda volunteering and big brother/big sister, academic tutuoring at the local prisons, working at the area soup kitchen (IN GEORGETOWN!)–your characterization of our community highlights your ignorance, prejudice, and, might I suggest, envy.</p>