<p>There are schools that "invite" you for a scholarship interview or award before you are accepted because you are "eligible" for a scholarship. That can really put someone in a bind if the school is not way up there on the list, cash is short, time is tight and the options are not out yet. Particularly at schools where you know demonstrated interest is important. What kind of message do you send when you don't go? But plane fare, hotel room, time, school work all for a school that has not even told you that you are in, and refuse to commit one way or the other about it. Yes, you can reasonably assume you are in, but sometimes these things do not work reasonably. My friend's son went to one of these things. $400 to interview for a scholarship for a school that has not yet accepted him, a scholarship not yet awarded, </p>
<p>I am just sick to death of the "demonstrated interest" criteria. In a perfect world, we'd have plenty of money to send our son to visit all the schools on his list and demonstrate interest. But we just can't. We already have one in college. We have two more after this one. The schools are spread out. Not to mention that son has had about three weekends off the entire school year. He ordered the videos, visited the web pages, picked through the materials....and quite frankly if you sit down and write five essays for a school I would say you are pretty darn interested. We'll see where he gets in, and make plans from there. The one school he spent quite a bit of time at last summer happened to have a debate program he was interested in attending.</p>
<p>At any rate, the wave of notifications for specific "niche" students is wearing thin here.</p>
<p>"At any rate, the wave of notifications for specific "niche" students is wearing thin here."</p>
<p>I couldn't agree more, texastaximom, and I don't even have a kid going through the process this year! I'm in the middle of reading "College Unranked," a book that has been discussed here. In a bunch of essays, leaders in college administration and admissions talk about what the admissions process should and should not be. The thrust of the book is that colleges ought to abandon the commercial business model that now drives admissions and re-focus on serving the educational needs of students. Well, I'd say these leaders ought to begin by eliminating early writes, etc. for the perceived choicest candidates. It doesnt even seem to serve any useful purpose. I just cannot believe that a student is more likely to attend a school because it accepted him a few weeks ahead of most of his peers. And the added anxiety created for the majority of kids who are not given an early nod is absolutely unconscionable.</p>
<p>Yes, there are some terrified students on one board because the minority visit weekend is at the beginning of April, and they have not received notification whereas others have. I think the decent thing to do is send the rejects/waitlists out with the accepts--all at one time. Particularly after you've demanded the student spend their time and money convincing you how interested they are in attending. On another board it is the International notification that is causing a stir. </p>
<p>We had to go RD because of financial need, so my son is still waiting to hear. I will agree with you that he is not going to jump and accept at the first school that hits the mailbox. I am really looking forward to April when the shoe is on the other foot, and the schools will have to show us some love for a change.</p>
<p>Yes...I've got my knickers in a knot now with t-minus 10 days and counting. :)</p>
<p>I agree with all this early admit stuff. >.< I wish I hadn't wandered in to the forum of my school of choice only to find that all these kids are being accepted. I got my materials in for this school in November and my fin aid stuff in well before the deadline... and this silence is making me crazy. </p>
<p>I was hoping that knowing I'm in to four other schools would make me happy... but it hasn't. And demonstrated interest... >.< I had mono last spring and summer and fall and was hardly able take a walk outside. So, no visits. I did have an interview because my top choice school had an office in my city, but that was it. I have friends who's parents paid so they could fly all over the country and see and visit all of these schools. But, the best will happen. </p>
<p>... I guess. XD</p>
<p>(Cuba Gooding in Jerry McGuire)</p>
<p>Money AND Love! :)</p>
<p>Back in my day when few kids applied to these private schools from any one public school and we did not have the internet, no one would know that a group of kids got an "early nod" or a special invite to something. I know my alma mater did invite the kids on the "A" list to some special weekend thing, but it was not something I that even made a connect with me until many years later when these things became an issue. I think schools like NYU are truly shameful in making so many kids miserable including some of their accepted ones by inviting only a select group to "Sunday on the Square" and such. I suppose it does give them an edge by making those invited feel so special and then those accepted feel grateful they were even accepted, but I just would not run my life that way with kids. This is such a stressful time for them. There are kids that have to have so many things fall in place to go to college and here they are seeing kids invited to pre acceptance events. I don't advocate it and I don't think it is the right thing to do. And if a kid is accepted to Harvard a couple of weeks later, I doubt if that Sunday in the Square is going to make one bit of differenece. Better they used their money to fill in the gaps of financial aid that they give out in deficient amounts to ensure more kids being able to afford their school.</p>
<p><em>standing O for jamimom</em>!!!!!</p>
<p>--glad to see you back :)</p>
<p>I'm with jamimom. Back when my eldest S applied to colleges, the notification date was 4/15. Fewer kids applied ED so many were waiting for 4/15 letters. If a kid was accepted to several colleges, it was nearly impossible to attend Admitted Student Day for more than
one possibly two schools. April 1 is better but it still is tough with all these pre April 1 letters and invites.</p>
<p>I just wish we knew so we could use spring break to visit the schools we may need to if certain acceptances don't show up. Every time my D visits a school she misses a million activities and her sports training and has a ton to make up. She has all of next week off but if we don't need to visit we don't want to pay airfare and hotel fees(better used for tuition). rant, rant, thanks for letting me vent!!!!!!!</p>
<p>It is a marketing ploy, pure and simple, to invite those who are needed for the school to be what it pretends to be. The gamesmanship of "showing interest" is a real catch-22, those who can do, those who cannot are disadvantaged, yet again. "Accepted student days": which of your children can afford, not just financially, to miss more time from school, with finals, AP exams, general family and life chaos? Mine cannot, and I hope it does not become an issue for decision making. It used to be in the olden days that the senior year was a time for reflection, memories, special opportunities, and a budding sense of adulthood; and now it is AP exams, worry about retracted admissions, and trying to put together a summer when who knows when the next school year will start (my son's schools have a range of almost four weeks difference in starting time.) This too shall pass, I hope.</p>
<p>I hear you on that one. My son has no open weekends between now and the May 1 reply deadline because of competition. If we can afford a ticket at the "last minute" airfare he will have to go during the weekdays when they test the juniors (exit level state testing). Spring break was last week, but what's the point in flying somewhere you could be ultimately be rejected when you have a very small budget for visits? Besides, many of the colleges had spring break last week, too.</p>
<p>A poster (didn't notice the user name, sorry) noted that likely letters and other early writes should be eliminated because they serve no purpose. I'd like to respectfully disagree. My son has gotten two likely letters (one was followed two weeks later by an admission offer to the university's honors program)...prior to that, he had no clue which of the four schools he'd choose...now the two that sent him likely letters are clear "front-runners." So, a bit of "wooing" (as the likely letters appear to be aimed at doing) may be working at our house...</p>
<p>Plus, my son was rejected at his EA school...he took it very well (better than I did...I keep thinking "how much better can a kid do than straight As, "huge" SATs/SAT IIs (1560/800/800/760). 9 AP courses (most in the sciences & math), strong demonstrated passion in his ECs...can't say about his rec's (we didn't see them), at a highly competitive high school? And the rejecting school positively flooded our mailbox with mail encouraging him to apply...well, that's the system and I guess I understand it...but those likely letters went a long way toward soothing the soreness from that rejection...)</p>
<p>So while I totally completely sympathize with the anxiety of the kids who aren't getting likely letters (remember, two of my son's schools did not send him a likely letter), I definitely see a "use" for the early writes...they were welcome in my house!</p>
<p>They are always welcome at the homes of the minority who get them. And they clearly work as a marketing strategy as the colleges continue to use this ploy. But many, many other kids are hurt by this, and these are not the bottom of barrel kids. To get accepted by Dartmouth clearly means the kid is way up there. To hear of the likely letters really adds an element of stress that is so unnecessary. And I truly doubt that is going to put the decision over HPY. Just more hurt and anxiety for more families to reward a few kids and families. </p>
<p>My friend's D suffered terribly as her suitemates at boarding school were invited to NYU's early party and she was not. She was told that it did not mean she was not accepted, but she was ultimately rejected. Both suitemates turned down NYU for "better" schools, and they did bask in the special attention, but I doubt either of them took pleasure in their friend's stress. In fact, they did not go though they were given off campus permission to do so that weekend in deference to her. I congratulate every recipient of these early notifications, and truly mean it. I think the joy is wonderful. But if it were up to me, I would eliminate this situation. Particularly when the college is not up front about them. To say you will be notified on such a date and then suddenly some kids get their letters way early is really a slap in the face. IF the system is explained a bit, it might mitagate the hurt somewhat. The college acceptance frenzy has really become stressful these days, particularly at the more selective levels, and I don't think it is necessary to add to it. There are official programs such as ED, EA and rolling that are very specific in how they work and those who want to subject themselves to those rules can do so. But some of these schools are downright deceptive in what they say. Some even claim that the chances of your admittance are not affected by not getting early write. Well, since you either are or are not, I guess that is true, but statistically as you still don't know, the more seats you know are taken the less the chances are that one left is yours. I know a school that does mail the acceptances first and refuses to admit that little piece of info. There is enough stress from mixed info and rumors. Why add to it by being secretive or outright deceptive about the practices? And many of these schools don't really need that tiny edge in getting a kid over the equal competition--they are unlikely to gain him over a truly more selective school or if money is involved. I don't think the pleasure of a few should take precedence over this stress for the many. Time enough for that when the absolutely necessary decisions come in.</p>
<p>Maybe in 10 years there will be a uniform "match" day like there is (well was) for medical internships. This is how it worked. Every applicant submitted a list in order of the programs they wanted. Every program submitted a list in order of the applicants they wanted. At a designated MINUTE, every applicant in every medical school in the country (including Hawaii) opens their "match envelope" and sees the name of the program to which a computer has matched them based on these lists. For those kids NOT matched, a list is given of programs that have available spaces- and since everyone is doing this at the same time, there is a fair shot for each of them to contact programs.</p>
<p>Now obviously, for college the numbers are relatively HUGE and there are other variables (money, for example). But, I would predict that in 10 years time, this will all be worked out and there will be a centralized reporting and organizing system for this process!</p>
<p>By the way, there was also a "couples match" wherein those people who were already married or committed to one another went into the match with the stipulation that they were a team..If this was feasible in 1982, then I think by now this whole "extravaganza" is ripe for a new approach!!</p>
<p>Any takers?</p>
<p>Amen, jamimom!</p>
<p>I also think the match idea is terrific, if there's a way to make it work on a much larger scale.</p>
<p>I respectfully submit that if they are going to do away with early notification they ought to do away with ED/SCEA/EA. IMHO those practices cause too much gaming of the system. Although the intent might be for passionate kids to apply to their first choice early, with the multiple methods of applying and the multiple levels of commitment the behaviours and impacts now resemble tax avoidance strategies. Someone please tell me why EA/ED etc. is a good thing, not in its ideal form but its actual form as we have all experienced it. And I mean good for the majority, the system, not just those who get the answer they want. Caveat: My D was deferred from her SCEA, and I admit to my share of sour grapes but continue to believe that my opinion holds merit. In fact I concur with the "early write is wrong" thread even though my D got an early write and scholarship invitation from another excellent school. And it did serve to mitigate the distress over the deferral. </p>
<p>I would have given it all up for the old days when I went to my mailbox at my hippie boarding school and took out the four envelopes - 2 acceptances, 2 wait-list, done. And hunching over the Smith Corona during Christmas vacation to finish the apps. And taking the SAT once with no studying.</p>
<p>Ah. Perhaps I am just approaching 50 and nostalgic for the older and seemingly simpler days. That said, couldn't they just have one application deadline and one decision time - even if those decisions differed by school?</p>
<p>I think the other problem with EA/ED is there's kids with a very evident first choice who need aid. So, its all well and good if your applying EA... but what if your school only offers ED? :/ It kinda strikes me as an unfair advantage for those who can pay for the high sticker price.</p>
<p>But, I may just be bitter.</p>
<p>Educationally sophisticated parents understand the game. They know to caution, warn, and help keep the heart and the options open, even when there is a seemingly active wooing and all systems seem go. As the saying goes, there is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip. Unfortunately, just as not every applicant has the financial resources to make visits, not every applicant has a support system to judge the schools, the application season and system, and what is the real situation. It is hard to imagine the whole higher education universe embracing something like the "match" of medical students. I do not know what the answer is, but clearly it is all out of control. As so many times over the course of my children's educational experiences, I keep shuddering as I encounter the obstacles, knowing that even though I have every resource to mount them, it is grossly unfair that others do not. That is probably one of the reasons I became an active poster at CC, so that at least I can offer what I know and what I have experienced as a student, mother, professor, and wife of an administrator. I suspect (actually I know) that I get preachy, but it is only because I do want to help.</p>
<p>No, Alumother, I don't believe it is sour grapes. And though our family has benefited wonderfully from SCEA, I do agree with you. I have posted about this a number of times. Once upon a time ED was good thing. A student absolutely had a favorite school, a one and only, communicated this sincere sentiment and received some consideration for giving the college an early commitment. Very simple. Now both sides of this transaction have hidden agendas and the scene is like a 3 ring circus with more acts added each year. ED, ED with EA allowed, EA, SCEA, rolling, ED2, interim decision, I can't even keep track of all of this and many cannot as the rules and stipulations are not always clearly stated. And many more gaming the system than making a pure, simple expression of a first choice school. The question becomes "where should I apply early?" when if that question should be asked, it should not be done. But with all of the EA programs, it is foolish not to hedge ones bets. Who wants to be the only one waiting till April for an answer, and these days it is entirely possible to be rejected from your safety without the old demonstrated interest which is about as sincere as the ED designation these days as the schools that most want are the ones that least sincerely have it. </p>
<p>Mind you, we took advantage of early and rolling programs much to our benefit. And I would be as delighted as anyone for my child or any child I know to get the likely letter. I am happy for those CCers getting them as well. But the entire scene is becoming so complex and a game of strategy instead of trying to make the best match. However, for all of my raving and ranting, the one thing I would really like to see these esteemed colleges do, these adcoms who so want sincerity and honesty from the kids and the schools, is some sincerity, honesty and integrity in their procedures. Don't sneak out the decision two weeks before you say you will to a select few, unless you state you are. Don't post a web acceptance or send a special invite before the acceptance to a select few. It is unavoidable that many of the kids are going to be disappointed as it is part of the process--a part the adcoms want to increase in number to up their ratings, down their selectivity %, But do it the gentlest way possible and the fairest way possible.</p>