How many AP's?

<p>Finally heard back from d's guidance counselor and she said that d needs to bring up her GPA next year and take as many AP classes as she can handle....ok....how do we know how many that is????? Don't want her to be stressed to the max her senior year but do want her to be challenged and be ready for college. She is thinking AP English, which she will still have to take Eng. 4, and maybe AP History.....any other suggestions? She will also have Precal, Forensics, French II, Psychology next year. We live in NC and she is planning on applying to APP, Gardner Webb, Elon, Wingate, UNC-Asheville, and UNC-Chapel Hill. Chapel Hill will be the stretch if she doesn't improve her GPA.</p>

<p>Has she taken AP English Language yet? At my d's school, she was required to take AP Eng Lang before AP Eng Lit. (She did AP Lang her junior year, AP Lit her senior year.) Either of these would be good.</p>

<p>Also, what about AP-Gov't & AP-Econ? Usually each class is one semester, so she could take AP-Gov't in the fall and AP-Econ in the Spring.</p>

<p>Since she is going to take Pre-Calc, taking an AP Calc (AB or BC) is out. But some schools have an AP-Statistics without Pre-Calc as a prerequisite. You could check that out...if she is a math person.</p>

<p>Psychology is usually available at most schools as an AP. But many colleges don't usually regard it as a strenuous class.</p>

<p>Is she far enough along in her languages for AP French? Each school is different...ours doesn't begin AP until French IV, for example.</p>

<p>How many APs a kid can handle is an individual thing. My d took AP-Eng Lit, AP Gov't/AP Econ, AP Calc BC, AP Chem, Honors Anatomy and Physiology and Yearbook (editor) her senior year. And she took a zero hour class (6:30 a.m.) to get in some grad requirements (speech). [She took so many electives like newspaper/yearbook/cheerleading, she got behind in the crazy graduation requirements like speech, health, etc..] But that load, along with SAT IIs and college applications/essays, yearbook editing, nearly did her in. And she is usually able to handle a LOT of stress.</p>

<p>Have she taken her basic sciences (Bio, Chem, Physics) yet? Why not an AP science? Or AP elective- music, art, computer? I would imagine that if she applies to UNC, she'll be "competing" against students who have had APs in all the basics (English, Social Studies, Science, Math) and then some.</p>

<p>I don't understand- the GC said she needs to improve her GPA. Is it low? If so, why would taking even more difficult classes improve her GPA? If she's not doing well in regular classes, she's probably not going to do any better in APs. </p>

<p>Need more information, like what she's already taken.</p>

<p>Maybe I misunderstand, but why would she have to take both AP English AND English 4 (I'd think that English 4 would be a waste of time, unless she needs to take it to replace a previous bad grade?) If your school offers AP Psychology, that's generally considered one of the "easier" AP courses. I'd suggest getting the scoop from some of the top seniors at her school (contact the val/sal, perhaps).... At D's school (also in NC), AP US and European History are both extremely difficult, due to the teachers. I agree that if she doesn't have a high GPA, Chapel Hill will be a stretch (however, SAT scores will also make a difference). She's probably going to be OK at her other choices, which are all good NC schools, if she brings her grades up senior year. I've heard that for a sub-prime GPA, at least showing an upswing on grades helps out in admissions. Good luck to you.</p>

<p>Agree with APMom...shouldn't have to take two English classes. At our school, Eng 3 and Eng 4 were only required if you weren't taking APs as a substitute.</p>

<p>APUSH was offered as a dual credit at our school as well. D rec'd AP credit and CC credit. She didn't find APUSH hard; but she had a great teacher (he was a college instructor). Very good advice from APmom....do ask around to get a feel for how well a class is taught. It does make a difference.</p>

<p>As a parent of a kid whose SAT was 2300, ranked 5th, etc.</p>

<p>Three per year (gr. 11 and 12) was her absolute limit. She barely had room to breathe. 4 would have killed her.</p>

<p>A nearby high school (upper middle class, high achieving school) limits kids to 5 during their HS years.</p>

<p>As a HS dept. head, I see AP frenzy. Students are taking AP who should not, and hurting themselves in the process. From college visits, college info sessions are fueling this frenzy.</p>

<p>My other D is a sophomore, straight A's in all honors courses--tends to stress out easily. We want to be very careful and aren't sure if AP is right for her.</p>

<p>AP is great for the right kid, but not worth being miserable over.</p>

<p>Thoughts from other parents or educators?</p>

<p>MADad,
Thoughts..
not all APs are created equally. Mine did NOT score anywhere near 2300 but managed to do 5 APs in senior year. Two were only semester long, so really 4 simultaneous APs. Anyway, not all are created equal. For example, AP Bio or Physics at our school requires 2-4 hours per night minimal, 7 days a week, no exceptions. Other APs are meaningless in terms of outside work. It just depends.</p>

<p>It really depends on your daughter. As a teenager myself, I can tell you there are definitely teens who stress to the max, procrastinate, etc and can barely hold it together, and then the hyper-organized, Do a million things, million aps, without stress. You probably know your daugher though.</p>

<p>Can she handle multiple tests on a lot of material? Does she study a little each night? or plan her papers well? Is she up late? Does she have a lot of extracurriculars that take up a lot of time?</p>

<p>It really varies by the kid and by the AP. My math/science kids worked hard in AP Bio, APUSH and AP Latin. Hardly at all in AP Comp Sci, AP Calc, AP Physics, AP Econ and if he's working hard at AP Chem I've seen no sign of it. His grades in all have been excellent and he got 5s on the APs. He hasn't taken the APs that every one says are huge amounts of work at our school AP Euro and AP English (both lang and lit). But I think that's partly the teachers and not just the courses. I've got a low key, but very smart kid. The only thing that gives him acute stress is the creative assignments in English. He's been in tears over assignments to write poetry.</p>

<p>The AP audit now required by the College Board may change the nature of AP courses. College Board has decided to protect its "AP" brand name by going after schools who make AP courses too easy, do not adhere to the curriculum, don't allow kids to take the exam, lable courses AP without authorization, etc.</p>

<p>EX: There are schools where kids get A's in alleged AP courses, but get 1's on the AP exams. </p>

<p>EX: A relative's child took a half-year AP Bio course and a half-year AP Chem course concurrently. Did not take either exam. I know for a fact did not come close to covering the curriculum, yet gets "AP" on his HS transcript.</p>

<p>EX: Some schools slap the AP label on any course, even if it isn't authorized by the college board. AP military history, for example, does not exist.</p>

<p>EX: Some elite prep boarding prep schools state that ALL of their courses are AP. Even in grade 9? Cannot be.</p>

<p>The AP exams are like the SAT or ACT. They are the only way to compare apples to apples. Personally, I'd like to see the exams required. At $83 each, that might be a hardship. Then again, college board is a business, not a charity.</p>

<p>I am a senior in high school and our schedule is 7 period a day.
i have 6 AP classes and 1 pre-ap class. rank 30/450</p>

<p>And to be honest, class isn't that hard if she learns how to be very efficient like other person said up there. And i did a lot of thinking and here was my foundation.</p>

<ol>
<li>I took AP physics -b/c teacher was easy</li>
<li>I took AP English - teacher was very linient on grades, so we turned in late work wit out deduction</li>
<li>I took AP eco - b/c its was 75% test and 25% homework grade, so pretty much i studied the night before and got good grades</li>
<li>Govt- hard class, one i neglected.</li>
<li>Bio - it was one of the "i like you so i give u A" grade teacher.</li>
<li>Math - b/c for background into college level calculus.</li>
</ol>

<p>Gotta be honest though...i don't have straight A's or plan to pass all the ap exam. But... if you decide to take many AP classes as i have, remember that it will look good on transcript and scholarships.</p>

<p>if you wanna know more about what i think email me at sialoproject@hotmail.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for the advice as it was very helpful. D's gc doesn't know her well as she is fairly new and was previously an elementary school gc, so I don't know if we are going to go the route she suggested as far as piling on the AP classes. She is planning on pursuing a degree in middle or high school English and probably attending a small to medium college here in NC....and I don't think UNC-Chapel Hill after what her gc said they require.</p>

<p>Our daughter is very bright and takes her schoolwork seriously and always has, but she is also very outgoing and is involved in several activities outside of school. I do not want her to have to give those up if she is struggling in several AP classes because they are part of who she is and help keep her grounded. She has to work hard for good grades and although she is making all 'A's in all of her honors classes even with the EC she does outside of school, she isn't the type to keep her nose in a book if she has a chance to do something else. :) </p>

<p>After looking over her options for courses next year she has chosen to take AP English (she will still have to take English IV....just the way her school does it) AP World History, Precal, Physics, French II, Forensic Science, and one elective. I think sometimes we get anxious when we read the posts from these people with kids that have 2200-2300 SAT scores and think, "OMG my kid with the 1700 SAT isn't going to get accepted into college" and that is not true. We just want her to do HER best and be happy with her efforts because one day when she has to work for a living she is going to need people skills and a certain level of maturity and she already has those....not sure if there is a college that teaches that.</p>

<p>^SharonD - Sounds to me like you have your priorities in very good order! Good for you! It can be disconcerting to read post after post of kids with off the chart stats; and if you take it all too seriously, it becomes hard to maintain perspective. It's good you recognize this. There is a college, and a career, and a meaningful future for anyone who wants it. The most important thing is that your kid ends up a happy person.</p>

<p>I also have a junior. His advice: take APs in subjects you are passionate about. He has friends taking six or seven APs this year. It's a little crazy to me, but we are in a very competitive school system and that's how many choose to play the game. DS took 3 as a soph (some of the exams his friends are now taking), 3 as a junior, and three or four next year (Physics C, Comparative Gov't, maybe an Econ). He did no studying for CS and Calc BC, and minimal studying for AP Gov't. This year, it's AP Lang, Stat, and World Hist. I'm not sure how one goes about studying for AP Lang, Stat will need a little review because he took the class first semester, and WH will require a fair amount of work.</p>

<p>Lots of kids get into great schools without a boatload of APs. Your D has activities that mean a lot to her, and she wants to keep her grades up -- those are good priorities that will get her to her goals. I agree that she ought to take AP Eng, esp. since she wants to teach the subject. How much overlap is ther between Eng 4 and AP Lang? You might want to check with the counselor on that one. If Eng 4 is a lit class, maybe it makes sense to take both, but I would question the GC.</p>

<p>Just went back and re-read your original post -- if she likes Psych, AP Psych isn't a tough AP. DS1 has liked AP WH -- it's a broad survey course, which is different from the highly detailed stuff he usually has to learn, but for someone who writes well and likes humanities, it shouldn't be bad!</p>

<p>Another thing to consider:</p>

<p>During college info sessions, we got the impression that the colleges have a different view of AP than some of us do. A big selling point with AP is that "you can get college credits and get out of school earlier!" In reality, do the colleges want you graduating early and paying less tuition? Of course not.</p>

<p>So we heard things like:
---AP may let you opt out of intro courses, allowing you to take more electives as an upperclassman.
--A grade of '3' may be passing, but many schools we visited will consider giving credit only for a '4' or '5'.</p>

<p>Colleges appear, in my opinion to put more weight on taking AP courses than in your performance on the exam, though I think students should take the exam to prove they met the standards.</p>

<p>There are two kinds of AP courses.</p>

<p>If you look at the AP program's course descriptions, you will see that some APs are designed to be equivalent to a one-semester college course, while others are designed to be equivalent to a two-semester college course.</p>

<p>In most instances, both kinds of AP courses are taught as full-year high school courses (although there are exceptions, and you should see how your daughter's school teaches each course).</p>

<p>The APs that are designed to be equivalent to a one-semester college course, but that are taught in a full high school year, will expose students to the sophistication of college-level material, but not to the pace of college work. They are not as brutal an experience as the APs that are equivalent to a two-semester college course, which are college level in BOTH sophistication and pace.</p>

<p>For example, both AP Calculus AB and AP Psychology are designed to be equivalent to a one-semester college course. If your school teaches these courses as full-year courses, they should be manageable experiences for a kid who is taking an AP course for the first time. On the other hand, AP U.S. History and AP Calculus BC are designed to be equivalent to two-semester college courses. They might be a bit of a shock to a student who has never taken an AP course before.</p>

<p>And to that I will add AP Bio. Unbelievable amount of material- much more than I had in college back in the Stone Age (about the time of the wheel invention, and way before kids had to know about restriction endonucleases!).</p>

<p>Still another consideration-
If you have taken an AP test, received a passing score which gets you "out" of the class- how does the college handle it if you opt to take the class anyway? For ex: son decided to take Calc I and Bio I even though he scored a 5 on the exams. He has to take several sequential classes in each of those and didn't want to get "bumped" up into a higher class before reviewing it again. Anyway, he received A's in those college classes, but they are only showing up as "pass" on his transcripts. So in other words, if he had thrown the AP exam and intentially failed, he would have the "A"s on his transcript. He could take an identical schedule and identical classes to a college peer yet have a lower GPA because of his AP test success. Since he is interested in maintaining as high a GPA as possible in the interest of going to grad/med school, this seems like it kind of shot him in the foot.</p>

<p>The same thing will happen with chem and physics I think. Unless he bumps himself up into the second or third semesters.</p>

<p>I question the wisdom of using AP credit to opt out of a course in your major. Those intro courses are where freshmen get to learn how their department "works", and the AP experience would make that course much less stressful.</p>

<p>Perhaps using AP to opt out of core requirements is a better idea? For example, bio major opting out of a history requirement, or classics major opting out of a science requirement.</p>