How much debt is too much?

Paying for College
1

<p>I've posted something similar to this before but this time i want to keep it more open.
-I have an EFC of about 1ok add 5,5k loans in the aid package and it will cost me about 60k for my undergrad.
-just in general is this too much debt? and what is bad about student debt? after all we live in debt our entire lives.
-I want to major in poli sci (I love politics and ethics and basically everything poli sci entails) as well as double major in Econ, International Business, or maybe just buisness in general.
-after college i would like to go into international buisness such as investing or financa. A career in public service would be ideal but they are difficult to attain and realitively low-paying.</p>

<p>So would it be bad to pay 60k total for college even if it was at a great school like Notre Dame or Northwestern? Thanks for feedback.</p>

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<p>See [Average</a> student loan debt nears $27,000 - Oct. 18, 2012](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/18/pf/college/student-loan-debt/index.html]Average”>Average student loan debt nears $27,000)

So your debt of $60k is kinda too much.</p>

3

<p>That’s too much for undergrad, especially with a poli sci major. As you’ve noticed, public service jobs don’t pay all that much. Also, you might get lucky, but for your career goals it is very likely that you will find you need a master’s degree (MBA or MPA) to jump beyond the entry level salary track. </p>

<p>I’d say $30K max. My rule of thumb is to borrow no more than the amount of your anticipated first year salary, using a conservative estimate of the level of employment you are fairly certain to get after graduation, not what you are hoping to get. In other words, if you look at salary stats for your major, look at the median salary or below, not the highest salaries. </p>

<p>Some financial experts would tell you to borrow half of that. </p>

<p>If you want to go into investing or finance, the first thing you have to know is how to make wise investments. Borrowing more than you can afford to pay is not a wise investment.</p>

4

<p>That’s too much debt. </p>

<p>The rationale that we live most of our years in debt (mortgages) does not justify large student loan debt.</p>

<p>If you have large student loan debt than you won’t be able to afford a mortgage, you won’t be able to afford to pay for your living expenses. </p>

<p>Besides, your parents would have to cosign these loans. Have they said why they’re not paying any of their EFC? If they’re expecting YOU to pay all of their EFC, it seems odd that they would cosign big loans that THEY would be responsible for if you couldn’t pay them back.</p>

<p>Also, those schools require CSS Profile. Your “family expectation” may end up being more than what you’ve estimated.</p>

<p>If you have the stats to get into Notre Dame, etc, then you probably have the stats to get large merit at another good school.</p>

<p>You’ve asked this question several times. “keeping it open” won’t magically produce a new answer.</p>

<p>You don’t seem to understand debt.</p>

5

<p>BTW…each year, the amount of debt in your loan pkg will be higher, and school costs will rise.</p>

<p>Frosh 5500
soph 6500
jr 7500
sr 7500
$27k of debt</p>

<p>Plus the $40k of EFC</p>

<p>Plus, the school may also include Perkins loans</p>

<p>Plus the loans will be GROWING while you’re in college.</p>

<p>You’d have over $75k of debt when you graduate. Your “rent” money would be going towards this large debt.</p>

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<p>*could you guys chance me for the following
Dreams:
Brown
Wash U
UChicago
Notre Dame
Oberlin
Match:
Emory
Kenyon
Grinnell
American</p>

<p>Safety:
Beloit
Kalamazoo
Mizzou</p>

<p>Here are my stats
unweighted GPA 3.7
Rank 27/515
Courses: AP World
AP US , AP Euro, AP Geo, next year taking AP Bio, and AP Stats
I have never taken a normal course all honors and AP and college credit A’s in everything except Math classes and Chemistry (also freshman year i recieved an 89 in physics both semester because the teacher said she was going to teach me a real lesson about learning and that it isn’t about getting the A) Strong grades in History classes with an upward trend overall.
ACT: Composite 31 (planning to retake and bring the enlgish score up 5 or so points as well as the math up 2)
sub reading: 34
sub science: 35
sub math: 28
sub english: 28
Will have really good recs from teachers and counselor.
I should have really good essays. Creative to say the least
First Generation college student
I have a vision condition known as nystagmus </p>

<p>income less than $115,000
oldest of 5 kids
Let me know what you think my chances are thanks in advance. And what you think I could do to have a better shot at my reaches besides test scores thanks.*</p>

<p>==========</p>

<p>You really need a reality check.</p>

<p>With that income, your “family contribution” is going to be more than $10k. Where did you get the idea that your EFC was $10k. It’s going to be around $20k.</p>

<p>How do you figure that your safety schools are “safeties”? You don’t have the costs covered for those schools.</p>

<p>If your parents have that many kids, and aren’t helping with college, I’m doubting that they would cosign your loans. </p>

<p>What are your parents saying?? </p>

<p>It’s ok to apply to a couple of dream schools to see what happens. However, you’re applying to a bunch of pricey schools that you can’t afford. And your safeties aren’t safeties, except for maybe Mizzou if you’re certain that you’d get large merit there.</p>

<p>You need to proceed this way to find your safeties: Assume that all you’ll be able to borrow is the Federal Stafford amounts. NOW, which schools can you afford using a Stafford loan, assured merit, and a few thousand from summer earnings and part time school earnings? Those will be your safeties and you should have 2-3 of them since it’s unlikely your reach and match schools will be affordable.</p>

<p>*Parents and Financial aid…
I have a serious problem. My mother refuses to talk about money for college with me, and insist that she will not pay a cent. She tells me that she will fill out the FAFSA but that I have “No right or need” to know her financial information. Is there anything I can do to get her to talk to me? She won’t even fill out an EFC calculator. She takes me to visit schools that I may not be able to attend because of money and she doesn’t even care. MY EFC will probably be about 15k so i’ll be paying about 20.5k a year counting a max of 5.5k in institutional /federal loans included in the fin aid package. I have no idea what to do.
*</p>

<p>Here you’re saying that your EFC is $15k and your parents won’t pay anything. I think your EFC is higher. I think that when your mom filled out some odd online EFC calculator a mistake was made (maybe estimated taxes too high or forgot to add back in retirement contributions).</p>

7

<p>I thought EFC was generally ~25-30% of income which would make it north of $25K.</p>

8

<p>^^^</p>

<p>I agree. Supposedly the mom ran an EFC calculator on some odd website and came up with $15k. Sounds like she may have over-estimated taxes paid or may not have added retirement contributions back in. </p>

<p>The OP is wishful thinking by hoping that his family’s EFC will be $10k with that income, especially at schools that use CSS Profile. </p>

<p>Since his mom has made it clear that they aren’t contributing, this student needs to deal with the reality of his situation. I doubt that his parents are going to co-sign loans since they have younger children to consider as well. </p>

<p>He has an unaffordable EFC. He needs to accept that and come up with a strategy that will work. </p>

<p>Stubbornly focusing on schools tht won’t work will just mean being very unhappy next spring with a few acceptances in hand, but no affordable schools. If Mizzou doesn’t give him large merit (like free tuition) than even that school won’t be affordable.</p>

<p>I know that it’s frustrating to do well in school, listening to friends who’ll be going to top schools, and then find out that your parents won’t pay their substantial “family contribution”.</p>

<p>BTW…WHO is going to pay for all the applications, sending test scores, sending CSS Profile, etc. Applying to 10 schools can easily cost $700-1000. Will his mom pay for that?</p>

<p>The strategy needs to be:</p>

<p>1) apply to a couple of dream schools and see what happens.</p>

<p>2) apply to a couple of schools that he “might” get full tuition scholarships. (competitive merit).</p>

<p>3) apply to 2-3 schools that will give him full tuition scholarships (or more) that are ASSURED for his stats.</p>

<p>4) Work over the summer and part-time during the school year to supplement his Stafford loans to pay for room, board and books.</p>

9

<p>we used the big future calculator and she used her tax return. We have five children. When i applied for private high school our income was a little less and our EFC was 5.5k no we make about 17k more and it was like 10.7k in the calculator but 3 years ago the FAFSA said it was 5.5 k.</p>

10

<p>You filled out FAFSA 3 years ago? What for? Who uses FAFSA for high school? Do some private high schools use FAFSA?? </p>

<p>Even with 5 kids, your EFC is likely going to be higher.</p>

<p>Anyway, the point is that your FA pkgs will have full student loans in it, so how are you going to borrow your parents’ EFC? Who is going to cosign? Your parents? Have they agreed to that? </p>

<p>Either way, it’s too much debt.</p>

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<p>allright, thanks for all the info, it was a selective high school in indiana that cost 55k a year, guess which one, got in but the money didn’t work out.</p>

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<p>So, are you going to come up with a more realistic app list that includes schools that you can afford to attend?</p>

13

<p>Our of curiousity, when your family filled out FAFSA 3 years ago and it asked about the number of children in college, what did your family put?</p>

<p>BTW…
I used a simple EFC calculator and put in Family size 7, income $113k, no other assets/savings, and it came up with an EFC of $17k.</p>

14

<p>Maybe there’s a discrepancy between total income and adjusted gross income. That is, maybe the take home pay is $113,000, but there are deductions for retirement contributions, etc., that reduce the figures somewhat. </p>

<p>To the OP: You need to understand that EFC sets your eligibility for aid – it does NOT reflect what a given college may charge you. There are no colleges that promise to meet your FAFSA EFC. The colleges that promise to meet “full need” mean the “need” they determine based on their own policies and formulas, and they will consider income and assets that may be exempt from FAFSA, such as your parents’ home equity. </p>

<p>You need to find a “financial safety” – a college that you are certain that you will be able to afford. Most likely that’s going to be an in-state public. Start at that point.</p>

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<p>Also i have a very extensive list of colleges that i am likely to get large merit aid at, the chance threads are helping me to determine which reaches i should apply to, because i don’t want to apply to notre dame if there’s no way i’d get in. I don’t wanna sound rude when i say this but i’m not ignorant to these processes and i don’t want to sound whiny but being uper middle class kinda sucks for those wishing to go to top colleges.</p>

16

<p>Also i have a very extensive list of colleges that i am likely to get large merit aid at</p>

<p>Oh good. Just be sure to figure out what YOUR remaining costs will be AFTER the merit award. For instance, when my kids were applying to various schools, some privates gave “large merit awards” but once subtracted from the total COA, the remaining costs were still quite high ($35k+). So, in your case, those “large merit awards” would not make the schools affordable.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that merit awards do NOT get applied to your EFC. They get applied to your “need”, and then if they are large enough to cover ALL of need, then they can cut into EFC.</p>

<p>Example</p>

<p>$60k = COA
$15k = EFC (which you’ll have to cover)
$45k = Need</p>

<p>If you get a $20k per year merit scholarship, then that will just get applied to your $45k need, and you’d still have to cover your EFC. Your FA pkg will already include a $5500 student loan.</p>

<p>What scholarship schools are you considering? How much are the awards? Are any of the awards assured for your stats? You used the word “likely” in your post. Be sure to include a few schools that will give you VERY LARGE assured merit for your stats.</p>

<p>don’t want to sound whiny but being uper middle class kinda sucks for those wishing to go to top colleges.</p>

<p>well, it really only sucks for those whose parents can’t/won’t pay. However, that doesn’t mean that the world has ended. You have the stats to get good merit at schools that will work for you.</p>

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<p>if i can get a 33 (been practicing and pretty confident i can) on the ACT i’ll get 11.5k to Truman State U., along with a Missouri award and like 4 other automatic schoalrships that will total like $500 less than the COA, i also wil have large automatic to a few other state schools, and then there’s always Bama to try for, i’ll get the ful tuiton thing and i can compete for the full- ride if i can get up to a 3.8</p>

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19

<p>Missouriboy, do understand that the EFC is the LEAST amount you are going to be paying for college unless you get merit money that covers the amount. Basically, the government won’t give you money through work study, subsidized loans, SEOG unless you pay your EFC. Pell might work a little different but you are not eligible for PELL, but for a few dollars anyways. Most schools, generous with financial aid, tend to use PROFILE on top of the FAFSA, and the contributions expected from the students tend to be more than the FAFSA EFC. Even the most generous schools, Like HPY, are expecting increasing amounts of student contributions on top of what they expect the parents to pay by formula. So it is a tough go out there to get that money from the colleges. </p>

<p>Having said that, I also believe you should give it a go with a few schools and see what happens in terms of aid packages. But it is very important for you to also include schools that are low costs and/or have good merit possibilities. The focus should be on the schools that are are not only sure to take you, but that you can afford without getting into too much debt.</p>

<p>A political science degree is difficult to parlay into a good paying job right out of college. And if your famly can’t pay for the college, they aren’t going to be able to pay for those loans either. Those kids lucky enough to have parents willing and able to help out after college until they get on their feet financially with a job paying a living independently wage are on a whole other playing field than you. You have to worry about paying for college long after college is done,and the job scene is not pretty these days, unless you have a specific desired skill. Even kids planning to go into high income jobs that are readily available like accounting, engineering, medical type careers, are taking a risk because the attrition rate in such programs is high. </p>

<p>My one son is living hand to mouth which is no fun at all. Makes him very bitter when he sees friends living high on the hog due to parental help, as the kids are also in low paying, or erratic paycheck type situations. But, he doesn’t have parents that can do this. Still, he is way better off than those who have student loans that have to be paid every month on top of the expenses he is immediately incurring in life.</p>