“I’m impressed at your forethought and unselfishness.”
@agentaquastar I was thinking the exact same thing when reading your posts. Apply to all reasonable options listed in this thread, and good luck to you. You sound like a very sensible student.
@roethlisburger Do you have anything constructive to contribute? Where should this student apply? You’re the one yesterday that said people shouldn’t pay off their credit cards so you must have some opinions.
We’re off topic, but I never claimed people shouldn’t pay off their credit cards. That was a different poster.
@OP with your good attitude and maturity you will do well wherever you go.
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I want my little brother and sister to be able to attend college, even if they get to go to a more competitive school than me in the end.
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The best thing you can do for parents and siblings is to show them that you can get a quality education w/o debt by going to an affordable school…either your local safety or a school like Bama with huge merit.
Seriously, once they see that you’re getting a quality education, important opportunities, internships, etc, your parents will realize that you’re not “losing out” and your younger sibs will not fall for the debt trap.
Be a leader…someone in your family needs to wear the big people’s pants…let it be you.
Kiplinger’s ranking shows average debt at graduation, just to give you (or your parents) some idea.
http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-private-colleges/index.php
The average among these “best value” private schools is a little below the federal student loan aggregate limit for dependent students ($31K).
https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized
IMO, that is a reasonable maximum for your own “self help” loans.
Have you run the online net price calculators to verify that you’re not eligible for any need-based aid?
Some people underestimate the amount that may be available to families earning as much as $200K/y (or even more if siblings are in the picture). In any case, your best option still may be either an in-state public university such as VaTech (esp. if you qualify for a scholarship) or a school like Alabama that offers large automatic merit awards.
Thank you so much everyone!
@OspreyCV22 My “forethought and unselfishness” is really just the result of (finally) worrying about my future, and they did not exist until I started diving deep into College Confidential and my family’s financial struggles (my previous threads are a huge embarassment haha…) Thank you for the suggestion about limiting myself to EA and RD. I never realized ED could be looked at that way, but it makes sense.
@tk21769 That list is perfect for putting things in perspective. I do not qualify for any financial aid at my in state schools, but they will still be cheaper than if I get a negligible amount of funds from OOS colleges or LACs. So as you said, my best options are in state publics and merit schools.
A summary of my choices, for those who’d be interested in reading:
As of now, I’m going to apply to most of my in state publics, both Alabama schools, and my local CC. Bama and Tech are my favorite choices, and it will probably come down to if I earn any merit at Tech.
If I do decide that I want to avoid debt/budget constraints completely- I can go to my safety, which costs $2000-3000/yr. Or CC, which costs very little and gives out textbook scholarships to STEM students regularly. I can also try to raise my ACT score to a 34 to get full tuition + on campus housing at Huntsville. Investing my time in raising my ACT score can only help my chances of getting scholarships at other schools as well.
Overall I’m feeling a little more confident and organized with my choices now. I have 2 well-regarded schools that I really like and will try to get money from. I also have a few public schools that I know I can get into, and hopefully I’m competitive enough for full tuition scholarships there (i.e. VCU). I have at least 3 “back up” plans/safeties that won’t set my family back at all. Either way, I obviously have lots of opportunities for college and success, despite some current financial struggles and my initial panic.
Sounds like a great plan. My suggestion would be to look carefully into scholarships requirements for Tech. I posted above that you had to apply by Dec. 1 to be considered for general ones. That was true last year when my D applied, but now it doesn’t seem to be the case. But there are also a number of specific Tech scholarships with separate applications. And applying to outside scholarships also may be a good idea, as even $1000 a year could make a difference.
It’s true that going to a CC or safety school and living at home might be the best option. And I’m sure that part of the reason your parents are opposed to that is because of the prestige/outside perception factor. But I’d bet they also think that it would be better for you personally to be able to go away and be on your own. (Also, they may just want you out of the house.) So I hope something works out where it is reasonable for you to do so. It sounds like there’s a very good chance it will.
You also can look into low cost colleges.
Not sure if Vtech total in state COA is only $26000, but it is a very good school.
And BYU has an excellent engineering program
I don’t know whether George Mason University is your safety, but my D applied several years ago, and we were all very impressed with their engineering programs and the engineering students that we met. The honors program seemed well supported, too.
It seemed as though they were targeting both engineering and honors programs for growth, and also GMU has been successfully transitioning to become a more residential, vs. commuter campus. The new honors dorms are gorgeous. It’s close proximity to DC seemed like a big plus for internships also.
I also have a U Richmond graduate and a current student there. At the Richmond Science Museum on one if our visits, we met a group of engineering students from VCU, who were volunteering. They were an impressive bunch, very smart and enthusiastic, so definitely visit! We have really grown to love the Richmond area on our many visits, with lots of great restaurants, and fun activities.
You are very lucky to have so many great in state options:)
While I applaud your maturity, all you’ve told us is that your parents make too much money to qualify for financial aid, and that they haven’t saved for college. The most important piece of the equation which you haven’t mentioned is how much money do they actually make. Many many parents borrow $50K for college without batting an eyelash and without impacting their ability to pay for their other children.
While reading through these posts, there is quite a bit of catastrophizing going on, about the awful things that could happen. (They could be living on the streets in retirement). In reality, since your parents are smart enough to know how to make enough money to not qualify for financial aid, I wouldn’t sell their judgement so short just yet. I would trust their judgement way more than I would trust the judgement of random castastrophizers on the internet, who probably don’t know how to make so much money and who are likely exaggerating the risk.
Since they don’t qualify for financial aid, it is just as likely that your parents make enough money to comfortably be able to borrow $50K to pay for college. It could be that they don’t have savings but they have investments. These might not be easy to liquidate now without paying heavy taxes. They may have concluded that it is far better to borrow money now than liquidate these investments. But if they don’t qualify for aid, they are unlikely to be as impoverished as you are making it sound. They could likely borrow this much from home equity which is a very low cost way of financing an education.
Sit down with them. Show them this thread, and let them show you how much of a command of their own finances that they have.
However, the worst case scenarios of going to a too-expensive college is far worse than the worst case scenario of staying within a too-low price limit for college.
- Worst cases for going to a too-expensive college: be forced to drop out due to running out of money or borrowing capacity, being burdened by too much debt in the future, having to support parents who have no money for their retirement, facing resentment from younger siblings whose college choices are more heavily constrained.
- Worst case for staying within a too-low price limit: attending and graduating from a college that is a lower choice than otherwise.
The OP needs for the parents to assure him/her that if the parents contribute $10,000 and borrow $20,000 per year for his/her college, that they can do so for all four years for the OP, make similar contribution to the OP’s younger siblings for their college costs, and pay off all of the debt ($240,000 total if $20,000 per year debt for the OP and younger siblings, in addition to the $120,000 total cash contributions) while still having enough for an independent retirement.
Perhaps the parents can do that. But it looks like their vague responses to the OP (e.g. “But oh, we’ll just get an extra job/sell the car/work harder starting next year” in #16) have not come anywhere close to assuring the OP that that is the case.
The high income parents gave very specific parameters on what they can and are willing to do. These numbers could not have come from thin air, but must have taken thought as they were competent enough to determine 1) that they won’t get any aid, 2) that they can pay $10K out of current income, and 3) That they feel comfortable borrowing $20K per year. They provided the information that they felt that their child needed to look for colleges. We should applaud them for doing so.
These numbers seem very reasonable to me for someone who makes too much money to get any aid.
I think it’s a huge mistake and frankly quite patronizing to assume that these parents are less competent than a high school senior, or less competent than anyone here.
@ClassicRockerDad Thank you for your perspective! I appreciate a differing view from the majority, and it’s reminded me to maintain communication with my parents. I agree that my parents are and will always be wiser than me, and I have to respect that as well.
Honestly, this process has been draining on me, and I’ve grown bitter and a little distrustful of my parents. They get mad at me when I try to save money by going to a lower ranked school, but when I shoot back that they should’ve saved money, they just say don’t worry about it. Without a doubt, I hate this cycle of arguing and worrying, and it’s even made me doubt attending college more than a few times.
I’n grateful for everyone’s support and advice. You all have helped motivate me to continue and find the best options for my education.
My dad finally gave me a solid figure on their actual income and is making progress to finally file his taxes. Still no definite college budget. But it’s progress.
I also just talked to my mom, and she gave me her perspective. She’s willing to give up everything for me- all her savings, delay her retirement, etc- for me and my siblings to go to the best colleges we can get into. I don’t want it to come down to this ofc, but it reminded me that my parents truly care a lot about me, and a few past obstacles with finances will never change that. Once again, I’m reminded to try my absolute hardest in school, since it’s the only way I can ever repay them in some small amount. Since she insists that she can afford Tech, I asked her exactly how she would manage that. While she’s still vague, at least she has an idea of what to do.
I asked my parents to put some of those ideas into action. They will take a while, but both of them agreed to do it. I really hope they will follow through, but at least they have some back up plan.
My parents have their own plans, but of course, I will still keep mine. Even if they can scrape together everything to afford college without debt for me, they still have to worry about my brother, who will enter college 2 years later, and take care of my sister in general. Im worried about the worst case scenarios that @ucbalumnus and others mentioned. No matter what my parents say, plans can go wrong, and I’d rather be safe than sorry.
I will keep the schools that I decided on my list. Tech and Bama are still my top choices. Tech has everything my parents and I want, but is still too expensive atm. But I know that if I go to Bama and spend around $10,000/yr less, my family will be in a much better position. Thankfully, my parents are now open to the idea of Bama, which is great progress from before. I still have to work on convincing them on my safety and CC, but I’ll get there…
@ucbalumnus I’d rather go into debt from the college of my dreams than attend and graduate from a school I disliked/hated just because it cost less.
Our D went to CC for 3 semesters right after JR year of HS. She learned that many of the same teachers taught her at CC and the same courses (with a LOT more students per clas) at our flagship U. The big difference was our CC was very low tuition (at that time about $1000/term tuition and $500/term books & supplies) and closer to our home with free parking and great food (they have a fab culinary program). The teachers were very accessible and she could talk to them during and after class and at office hours, also no TAs. It allowed her to consider and take some courses she may not have otherwise considered.
She transferred into a highly competitive private U and was very well-prepared academically. She was not harmed as far as we can tell from having attended CC and found it an interesting experience.
You are wise to cast a wide net in your college choices, including financial safeties and CC in the mix, OP.
@agentaquastar the problem as I see it is that you are asking two related but very different questions:
1- Schools where I can get merit aid?
2- Can I count on my parents?
Question 2 CANNOT possibly be answered in an internet forum. No one here knows your parents income, assets, credit history or how this will play out in their commitment towards your education. As @ClassicRockerDad says you might know less than you think you do. You have their verbal commitment at this point and know better than us how reliable that is. Your doubts about it do raise an eyebrow. It is possible that you are being a realist or perhaps overly anxious/conservative at this stage?, we don’t know that either. One thing you have to keep in mind is that all possible choices you are struggling with do carry risk. This is not how it will play out (it never is…) but it is just one of infinite possibilities: say you save them $10,000 and they go ahead thinking that they have time for your siblings and invest $25K, lose it all plus more and end up in a more precarious position… Again, that is not how this will play out, it is just an example I came up with to emphasize that action—>consequence is not always linear or rational. I can do a zillion other examples in the other direction (where you saving the $10k makes you a hero) but it sounds others did the work for me here ^^^^^^… Regardless of the choice you make or what ends up happening one thing you have to be 100% sure of in this case is that it cannot be your fault. That is the only thing that actually worries me about this whole conversation, that maybe you are trying to carry too much weight on your shoulders and that others are egging you on? Again, I don’t know you either so please disregard any and all my comments if they don’t apply to your particular situation. My only recommendation is the following: no matter the problem there is no silver bullet out there so don’t waste your time trying to find it. Best of luck.
@LBad96 That’s a very immature attitude. Just wait until you have to pay the debt. I think you’ll feel differently then.
YOU can’t go into debt beyond the ~$27k federal student loans. Parents have to take on debt for anything over about ~$6k/year. Didn’t your family do that and then have trouble paying the bills on time?
OP, if your parents make too much to qualify for aid but don’t have any savings, I’d look for schools that you can afford with a combination of merit and the federal student loan. I wouldn’t attend a college they could only pay for by borrowing.
@itsgettingreal17 why is it an immature attitude to not see any value in attending a college/university you don’t like? The notion of graduating from a school that’s not at all good academically/a good fit just for the sake of cost is worthless to me. And my parents are paying off my loans for me…think I may have said that before, actually.
OP, make sure you have a balanced list. And make sure you only apply anywhere you would actually see yourself attending.