Clarifying- it is $9,000 more to go to UChicago than the state school for us based on actual financial aid information. We can cover the full state costs with 529 and current income. The additional $9,000/year would be combination of loans student would take out, HELOC we would take out or other private loans. Would try to avoid Parent plus given the higher interest rate and origination fees, etc. One parent says state school, graduate with no debt. Other parent says UChicago will be worth some debt given student style of learning and connections for future jobs. Not a CS or Econ major. But also not planning to be a teacher.
And just curious, how have other parents addressed equity among siblings when it comes to paying for college?
@whatnext28 As for equity, just don’t shaft the younger siblings. That would totally suck. For mine, they will be given the same opportunities for UG and grad school. The fact that one will cost way more than the other is more of my concern. It’s like when I was younger and didn’t get the money back just because I didn’t need braces.
@itsgettingreal17 Yeah, methinks the money is possibly a little tighter than what is being put forth. I hope there is only 1 more kid.
If the parent wants to take PLUS for the amount $9k a year and start repayment immediately, that’s fine. If parent can’t do this, that’s probably a flag.
The answer isn’t straightforward. We took large PLUS loans for one of our kids’ college because of cash flow issues that we projected would work out. We did take a risk. What happened? 9/11 happened. The recession in the early 2000s happened. Some issues cropped up that took precedence over something really so insignificant as going to a prestigious college. We didn’t take any of those things into account. We fortunately were able to get through these things without a personal or family financial crisis, but that did loom closer than ever expected. We started paying off those loans, by the way, as soon as we got them and it took us a long and difficult 14 years. Yes, every payment hurt.
This. If you could amortize it as $1K year for 40 years that would be one thing. But there are opportunity costs associated with debt- and not just when you can afford to buy a house or live w/o roommates. If you have to service debt, can you take that summer internship? can you afford to move to the big city where the jobs in your field are? (start up costs, such as getting appropriate clothes, first/last/security deposit for rent, can be brutal). The field can also matter a lot. IR type jobs, for example, are basically indentured servitude for the first few years. Can you afford to take that low-paid starter job with good prospects and still make your debt payments?
@whatnext28 - Just make sure you understand what the current Tax Laws are about using HELOC to pay for college. Interest is no longer deductible unless used to buy, build or improve your home.
@brianboiler - By “desired instructor” I’m actually referring to someone other than a grad student. Again, YMMV. History majors at state uni’s probably see a lot of tenured faculty. They also are way less dependent upon sequential progress for your degree. Wildly popular Economics and C/S may be another story entirely at a state institution (even a top one) in a state with fiscal problems. That’s why it’s good to check time to graduation for your desired major. Also, most majors that are tops in terms of rigor are going to be filled with other high-performing students. Most won’t be flunking out of every course this past semester
Edit to add: grad students can be great instructors BTW. However, most parents prefer their kids see some tenure-track faculty before they graduate.
Friends of ours with a high performing student at Michigan was facing six years for her dual-degree. Northwestern typically gets their dual degree candidates out in five for the same set of specialities (music and economics). Just another example of why it’s good to check.
I think the second child question deserves some exploring. Are you burning through all of your savings (and taking loans) with child 1? or do you have another 529 for child 2? Although you don’t have to be penny for penny equal, you can’t be way off. The second child is on of the reasons that my first will not be able to apply to the top schools. We are full pay. I could afford to send one, but wouldn’t have time to reload for the second (6 years younger).
Couldn’t he take a $5,500 federal direct loan and work during the summer and part time during the school year to earn the remaining $3,500? Also, some of the cost of attendance at Chicago is about $5,500 in personal and travel expenses; if he can be frugal with those, that could attack the shortfall from the other direction.
Seems like no additional parental contribution or debt would be needed, so he can choose whether he wants Chicago at extra cost / financial risk to him (the federal direct loans, work earnings, and/or frugal habits needed) or the unnamed other school at no extra cost / financial risk to him.
In terms of graduating in 8 semesters or 12 quarters at any university, a student who can get into Chicago and who can afford the university which s/he attends should not have trouble doing so, if s/he puts in at least some care into choosing courses and planning (i.e. starting off with courses toward any possible major of interest, not waiting until very late to change major without having taken prerequisites, not delaying taking a needed prerequisite because it is offered at 8am, etc.) and not majoring in party or beer tasting.
“And just curious, how have other parents addressed equity among siblings when it comes to paying for college?”
I think that Solomon did not write on this subject because it was too difficult for him to figure out the correct answer. This one is tough.
We have always assumed that anything that we pay for child #1 is a precedent, and we are committed to spending the same for child #2, adjusted for inflation, if they want/need it. As such the budget that we set for child #1 was chosen such that even with cautious economic assumptions we would be able to afford to pay the same for child #2. We don’t have a child #3 but if we did of course the same would apply to all remaining younger children.
Then he can take the $5,500 loan and earn $3,500 between now and the start of college.
No problem in equity with other children - your son shoulders the loan and the job.
^ Agree that practically all SHOULD be able to graduate in 4 years at State U, and that not doing so can be a choice (in part because the expense is lower . . . ). But the larger size and less personal nature of the state university can oftentimes mean you prudently choose to stretch out your time to graduation a bit more in order to get a higher quality academic experience. Despite what can be pretty mediocre undergraduate advising at UChicago, it simply isn’t the case that you need to do the same. This is generally true at other privates as well. State universities - even the best ones - still have administrative hurdles that private schools don’t have. Even if state uni’s are better now than they were back in the day. Is it worth saving $36k over the course of your college career to deal with these hurdles? That’s really for the individual student and family to decide.
I live in a state with a decently-funded state flagship that has several top programs of study for undergraduates and a four-year guarantee for time-to-degree. What they do in order to make that happen is increase the sections taught by grad students. How many grad students you actually end up with as your primary instructors will totally depend on your major and your schedule, of course. As stated before, YMMV.
Would argue that knowing exactly what to major in before starting college may work for some kids but not for a whole lot of others, particularly ones who are drawn to the liberal arts. If you are someone who wants to use your college time to explore a bit before settling in on a major, then UChicago may be worth the extra $9k per year. Most of the first year and a good portion of the second would be focused on the Core and provide methodological exposure to many different fields of study. I think most of us who are parents of current students there know at least one or two who have gone in w/o knowing exactly what they wanted to do and even changed their mind once or twice during their first couple of years. No one worries in the least that their students won’t graduate in four years. In contrast, it’s quite typical to begin “pre-major” advising at State U (most of the state universities my kids applied to used your major of interest from the application to kick off the advising session). If you change your mind that could well hold things up. Not an absolute, just something to consider as a distinct possibility.
Just another point to make about State U. A UChicago caliber student has probably been accepted to the honors program at State U. That often means priority registration, which means the student will not get shut out of classes and may even have special advising, which makes the experience a bit more like a private school.
I have one at UChicago and one at big State U honors program. Both are in the perfect place for them. So far, State U kid has gotten his first choice of classes every semester (honors college students get to register before the masses), research with postdoc freshman year and received a grant to continue research for the summer. UChicago kid has been shut out of a couple classes, but either got them in subsequent quarters or is confident she will get them next year - no worries about not graduating on time. She received a paid fellowship to work on a presidential campaign this summer, her first choice internship.
I think, if a kid is at a good place for their situation (fit), they can make the most of it. But I will also say, there is something special about UChicago that my UChicago kid really grooves on – there better be, because we are paying a lot more for it! ?
“Another problem: confirmation bias. OF COURSE people whose kids are happy there are going to see the positives.”
Well, yeah. This is a UChicago thread . . . .also, several parents probably have kids who turned down significant scholarship money from State U and elsewhere in order to attend UChicago. :blush: To them the extra $36K is worth it.
Seems that OP received various points, counter-points, and rebuttals to counterpoints. Without providing the specific state university and major, it’s hard to get back more than a lively discussion based on anecdotes with one or two triggered posters weighing in for good measure. That’s about right for a UChicago thread. And if that isn’t magical, then what is?
To the OP’s question… This is the kind of conversation I could imagine having with a kid in those circumstances:
“We are pleased as punch that you were accepted by UChicago. From all we know it is a serious but also a pretty sweet place to go to school. However, it would break our budget by $9,000 per annum as against the school down the road, which is also just fine. So the question here is, just how much do you yourself desire to go to the University of Chicago? If you really do desire it, we will help you, but you need to make some sacrifices as well. We would find a way to come up with an additional $3,000; but you would have to find another $3,000 through part-time or summer work; and you would have to borrow $3,000. Is that a deal?”
I left out some of the crying, laughing, and negotiating, But something like that conversation, in more nuanced form, would make for a pretty thrilling and existential moment of truth in a young life. If the kid stepped up to the plate, I would be proud of him or her, and I would say so and would agree that it was a wise decision. But the commitment, the desire and the determination would need to come from the kid.
My D’s FA package included a summer earnings expectation as well as work-study (she didn’t do work study her first year but so this year). My son’s FA package did not include summer earnings. I wonder if that’s because they dropped that component or because they had picked up that she already had a part time job out of her sophomore year. S got a summer job out of his junior year and that information wasn’t part of the prior-prior financial and tax info. sent).
Thanks everyone. I was hoping y’all could convince me but kid turned down offer today after we discovered some financial aid issues which would make future years much more expensive. No reason to take on debt for a bachelors degree. Congrats to all of you for making it work if that was the right thing for you.
Congrats to your child on making what appears to be a very mature decision. Sounds like the type of young person who will thrive wherever he/she ends up.
We’ve got two daughters a year apart. Both had a great college options with wildly varying price tags. Oldest chose UChicago with the understanding that she’d need to take on debt and/or contribute through earnings. She took out the $5,500 federal loan her first year. In the summer after her first year she worked in an internship for a UChicago alum. She earned enough to pay $6,000 towards her education and not have to take on debt. (In full transparency we are anxiously awaiting our 19/20 aid package.) UChicago has been a perfect match for my daughter. She’s received an extraordinary education, flourished as an athlete and has taken full advantage of ancillary services like career counseling, academic advising and study abroad. I’ll also add that she’s a CS major and has a reasonable expectation that an employer will contribute to grad school (i.e she doesn’t feel like she needs to keep scarce tuition dollars in the tank.) The UChicago brand has served her well in the internship search. She’s already submitted two applications at desirable employers for summer ‘20 positions and was contacted almost immediately for interviews.
Conversely our younger daughter chose a state flagship school (Clemson) with a much lower price tag. She’s eyeing grad school in health sciences (pharmD) so knew she had to come out of undergrad debt free. Additionally we anticipate being able to pay for at least her first year of grad school, whereas UChicago daughter will have dried her well of tuition savings during undergrad. That said the difference between state flagship and UChicago is palpable on nearly every front. Course registration is like a competitive sport at Clemson even with the benefits extended to honors students. There are huge variations in the quality and engagement of faculty so careful consideration has to go into every course selection. Science courses are massive making it hard to connect with faculty. The interests and motivations of students are varied, with some being more inspiring than others. Academic advising has been perfunctory at best, merely an affirmation that a student is on track to graduate. The football is really good:) Truthfully we are hoping that grad school is the magical experience for younger daughter.
Take our experience for what it’s woth. I suspect my oldest would tell you emphatically to go with UChicago… She’s carrying a little debt but has absolutely no regrets.
