<p>Penn state is as much a party school as any. 90k in debt is crazy. 30k in debt is still a lot, especially with interest rates these days. I graduated about 15k in debt and my payments work out to be about 120 a month - and that’s with about a 2 percent interest rate.</p>
<p>
The trades can yield a very nice income. Five dads in my neighborhood who easily earn at the six figure level in jobs that don’t necessarily require a college degree: two plumbers, a carpenter, a general construction contractor, and a concrete guy. They’re all independent. The plumbers, in particular, enjoy stratospheric cash inflow. The carpenter is still relatively young, and he’s been semi-retired for more than a decade. The concrete and construction guys only work part-year; they might even beat the plumbers on an hourly basis. In addition, an electrician friend of mine is currently out in the Pacific NW, where he seems to spend his time buying up hundreds of acres of forest. It’s eye-opening.</p>
<p>The trades also produce a number of extra benefits that don’t appear as income, in terms of bartering services. Some of the stories are amazing!</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many of those jobs that used to be “the trades” and union are now non-union with no benefits - no health, no overtime and “labor ready” and corner by Home Depot guys wainting to take your work. You’ll be semi-retired with a bad back before long or sick from chemical exposure on worksites. That is from out here in the pacific northwest. It’s a good reason for kids to take AP Spanish, though, or Russian to communicate with all the tile setters.</p>
<p>Yes, it is a BIG problem for folks who are independently employed, especially if they become injured on the job (or elsewhere) and have no insurance or other benefits and have no pension or other benefits to fall back on when they can no longer practice their trade for whatever reason.</p>
<p>There are also hairdressors, mechanics, electricians and many others. Their work can be feast or famine and is not necessarily an easy life either. There are different jobs out there that are not retail and not food service, but they do take some looking to find and even more work to get.</p>
<p>$90k is too much. As a PA resident, I find Penn State a high cost.</p>
<p>As far as full time jobs in the trades – Not in my area. My carpenter husband can’t get a good paying job because he doesn’t have a construction management degree. Neighboring state and local code laws has made it a nightmare to operate small businesses with all the red tape & licensing. Just not a good market in our region any more. DH is on the road at least 20 days/wk working out of state/region.</p>
<p>My dad was a master plumber with his own business for 20 some years. If you work for a company, you don’t get paid well. If you work for yourself, you get paid very well but it comes at a cost. When my dad was in an accident on the job leaving him disabled, he was SOL. Many people in a trade are screwed when they no longer have excellent vision, develop carpal tunnel, etc. It’s great when you’re in your prime but it’s generally a gamble and you can’t work past a certain age whereas in most other professions, you can. </p>
<p>Fwiw- I found this website [What</a> is a Master Plumber’s Average Base Salary?](<a href=“http://education-portal.com/articles/What_is_a_Master_Plumbers_Average_Base_Salary.html]What”>What is a Master Plumber's Average Base Salary?) The average salary for a master plumber is somewhere in the $50k range. That’s really not a lot.</p>
<p>The nice thing about many of the trades is that they’re fairly stable jobs when you’re in your prime. There’s always a toilet to be fixed somewhere, and they’re not flying in workers from China to do the job ;)</p>
<p>“90k in debt is crazy” - Amen! </p>
<p>If you had saved enough money to cover college costs, I’d say that it would be your judgment call about how to spend it. But it’s too much debt for a new grad starting out. And it’s too much debt for the parent to assume since retirement is not that far away.</p>
<p>I know a kid who took many loans, probably with parent co-sign. to cover college costs (including flight time, pilot certifications)… now his debt is $90K with interest. Even with switch to 20 year payment the debt is crushing.</p>
<p>romanigypsyeyes–your dad did not have to be out of luck when he got hurt, you can get disability insurance privately and he should have done that. With a few exceptions, private plans are available to most people. I agree though, if you are in a trade, you need to have your own company to make it worthwhile.</p>
<p>Am I the only one that thinks not only is 90k too much but to be spending 30k and every dime they have is crazy too. Retirement is not really off in the distance. It is here now. My dh is only 48 and there is no way we take on that amount of debt and spend our retirement. Your son is too young to be able to support you two should something happen. </p>
<p>Take your 40k and buy him an education. CC for two years and then the local university where he can commute for the next two years. May not be his dream but it is better deal than most kids get. He is very lucky to have this option. </p>
<p>I find it hard to believe MA doesn’t have very good state schools. MA has one of the highest SAT achievements in the country so they have got to have a place for these kids to attend.</p>
<p>momof3greatgirls–MA has plenty of great state schools, they just are not “prestigious” state schools. The choice really is do we blow our retirement so we can say our son went to tippy top school or do we have a reality talk with the son about life? The other option is that they can blow their retirement dollars on the son and the son in turn supports them through their retirement years, to the standard at which they are accustomed to living.</p>
<p>PA resident also, and PSU is only expensive in context, compared to ‘true’ state schools it is pricey, compared to any if the privates it is a relative deal…and it is cheaper then Pitt,though only a bit</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Of course, no 18-year-old can possibly comprehend what it means to have to support parents in old age, so to ask them to make that tradeoff to help fund the “prestige” school with retirement funds is not fair. Much better to put limits on the cost of school and help the kid find an acceptable compromise. There is a time when the parents have to step up and say “No, we can’t afford it.” That’s what adults have to do.</p>
<p>Steve- no offense, but you know nothing of our situation. My dad did have disability insurance. After medical bills, rehab, lost wages, etc it really didn’t help much. I will leave it at that.</p>
<p>$90k in debt is $90k too much and $30k in debt is $30k too much. You say you have $55k available to pay for college today. </p>
<p>“The debt is after our kicking in the 15K in college plan that we managed to save and 40K my inheritance $$” </p>
<p>Your son should go to the local cc and then transfer to a state school for the last two years that will cost no more than you can pay in cash. This is doable on $55k, especially if you save a bit more the next two years and your kid kicks in a few K from summer/part time jobs. Keep in mind that some OOS state schools may cost less than your instates. Examples may be any of the SUNYs, Grand Valley State in Michigan, Truman State in Missouri and U. of Minnesota. These are good schools.</p>
<p>It is an unfortunate fallacy in our society that it is acceptable/necessary to go into debt to get a college education. Your son may be disapointed with attending cc but you would be doing him a HUGE favor by teaching him that it is necessary to always live within one’s means. Letting him graduate with debt would be doing him a disservice. </p>
<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>I’d strongly suggest another look at UMass Amherst. While not one of the “prestige” publics like University of Michigan, it is the state flagship university and is well known. Yes, it has the “Zoomass” image, but they have cracked down on the partying in recent years. It is also easily avoided–live in the Northeast dorms instead of the Southwest dorms. It has generally excellent academics, a great location in one of the best college towns in America, an exchange program with the four LAC’s in the area so one can take courses at an LAC at UMass tuition rates, and great food (not an insignficant issue for college students).</p>
<p>Yes, I am biased, my son is a Freshman there and is having a great experience (despite having to do far more work than I think he expected as an Engineering major). He lives in Southwest, but managed the party scene well enough to make the Dean’s List last semester. He likes being far enough from home (we live near Boston) so that he feels like he has gone “away” to college, but yet is close enough to come home for a weekend if he wants to without it being a major production. So far I am very impressed with UMass and his experience there.</p>
<p>I’ll add that UMASS Amherst has an honors college with very nice dorms as part of the deal. </p>
<p>My sister attended UMASS Amherst and went onto to earn a full scholarship to get her Masters degree at a “tippy top” LAC. UMASS will get you where you need to go if you do the work.</p>
<p>Why would you borrow so much to attend UNCW? It’s not a prestige/big name sch. if that’s what he’s looking for. Stay in MA and go to UMASS or some other instate school.<br>
Believe me there is plenty of partying going on at UNCW. College at the beach = partying.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>They are, however, much more expensive than the plans that employers buy for all of their employees, presumably due to adverse selection (i.e. the buyers of individual plans are likely to be a higher risk pool than a pool of all of the employees at an employer). Of course, both individual and employer group plans will be more expensive for those working in jobs with a higher risk of work-preventing disability.</p>
<p>thanks for all the great answers. we still have yet to make a decision. waiting on “The Letters”. have gotten aid at some and some merit at the 'spensive Elon; next to nothing from Penn - but we expected that. still waiting to hear on aid from Elon and merit from UNCW. UMass gave some unexpected good aid.</p>
<p>“UMass gave some unexpected good aid.” All the more reason to take another look at it…</p>
<p>Check the college web sites, too. Some colleges post their finaid info on line before they send out letters.</p>
<p>Best of luck and let us know how it works out.</p>