<p>Our daughter is a freshman at a large private university in a school learning community. She has a group project that is 30% of her final grade in an important course. The project is a 30 page research paper and the group has been meeting since the beginning of the year. Along the way, different parts have been due. There are 5 people in the group. One girl has just done nothing and attended only a few meetings. The other 3 have done very little work on the project. Their research is supposed to be done by now and they all have taken assignments. The outline was due this Friday- Wednesday they met and three of them had a little work done with no references. They were to meet again Thursday night for four hours and put it into an outline with references. The 3 went to my daughter and said "You're the smart one here and you put it together" They went partying. She called us at 9 crying. She ended up going to the library with two of her friends who were not in her group and spending all night there writing an outline. And, by the way, she is definitely not the smart one but she is the only one who cares and they know it.
She is not innocent here. Why were they even doing this project in the last minutes?<br>
The team met with the professor on Thursday to complain about the girl and he basically said he was hearing about this too late and couldn't do anything. A peer facilitator who is an upperclassman is supposed to be meeting with the team weekly and has never done that.
Since she lives with these kids in her learning community, she cannot snitch (her words). This is affecting all of her classes and she could definitely be on probation this semester due to this. We want to call her advisor who also happens to be her professor and the undergraduate dean. This is totally unlike us to be helicopter parents but we feel that we have no choice. We don't want anyone to get into trouble but we want him to be more involved with supervising them.
What do you think?</p>
<p>I would want to be involved, too, but I don’t think you’ll get any traction so I would leave it be. It’s a very unfortunate thing. After doing whatever can be done to get the project in - in whatever state it is - then she should have a meeting with the professor and explain how this all evolved. Mostly just for the professor’s future reference.</p>
<p>Personally, I hate “group projects”. I understand that in some fields they are necessary and intrinsic to that field, but never should they be so heavily weighted in a student’s final grade that weak partners can put that student on academic probation.</p>
<p>Has your D asked you to get involved and why do you think your involvement will make any difference? Are you going to call her employer, in the future, when the team at her job do not work out?</p>
<p>This is a learning experience. Let your D figure it out. </p>
<p>If I were in your D’s shoes, I would do the best I could on my part and hand it in. I.e. project title, 5 parts - Part 1 - assigned to so and so three month ago; Part two - here is my report; part three - assigned to so and so three month ago. etc. </p>
<p>I would learn that if there is a problem with the team, either learn to be the leader or report the issue to a leader as early as possible. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I agree that you should stay out of it. I know how hard that is but it is the right thing. Maybe you could suggest that your D (rather than you) go to her advisor and explain the situation. Or, she could just wait and see how it plays out and if (and I seriously doubt this will be the case) she ends up on academic suspension-that may be when you will need to speak up. The fact that some of the girls already spoke to the professor leads me to think that he will take the situation under consideration when he evaluates the research project. </p>
<p>And, as you said, your daughter shares in some of the blame. She is learning to juggle a lot of responsibilities while adjusting to being away from home, etc. She’ll get the hang of it. You need to communicate to her that you have confidence in her ability to deal with this issue. If you step in she will lose an important opportunity to learn what she can handle on her own.</p>
<p>By the way, I, like everyone I know, absolutely HATE group projects!</p>
<p>I’d stay out of it. Even if you complained I can’t imagine the advisor/prof acting on a student’s parent complaining about something like this.</p>
<p>Your D should use this as a learning exercise. She needs to be careful who she gets into group projects with if she has a choice and even when she doesn’t, as is often the case, needs to be more assertive earlier on and solve the problem herself to the best of her ability which will include explaining the situation to the prof, being more assertive in getting the other group members to do the work, getting started earlier, and sometimes being prepared to do the majority of the work herself and suck it up. </p>
<p>Unfortunately her situation isn’t at all unusual and I think it’d be difficult to find any recent college grads who haven’t been in your D’s shoes but her ability to manage to it, including taking on the additional work herself if need be, will likely serve her well through school and in the job force where it’d likely eventually get recognized (and hopefully the slackers would evetually get recognized also).</p>
<p>But - I know it’s frustrating for you as the parent but there’ll likely be other frustations as she goes along including bad profs, unfair assignments, inflexible profs, more slacker classmates, unfair grades, etc. She’ll most likely make it through though since most manage to somehow.</p>
<p>Kids started doing this to my dd way back in middle school. “You are the smart one, you do it.”</p>
<p>I hate group projects, too.</p>
<p>When they are absolutely necessary, the work should be divided/assigned in a way that it is clear if one or two don’t “pull their weight” without hurting the grades of the others.</p>
<p>After this semester is over, have her go to ratemyprofessors dot com and post that this prof/class has group projects, group members don’t have to pull their weight, and everyone’s grade suffers.</p>
<p>Just advise how to deal with it, don’t call. THis happens to my D ALL the time, even back in HS. She learned back then, divide the project by the amount of kids involved. She would only be responsible for her part, and hand it in as did the other kids who chose to do their work. D has a talent for being a organizer/leader of whatever she is involved in, it usually bit her in the butt, so she has evolved into the delegator at the beginning of the project, clearly stating who is responsible for what, if you don’t do your part, not the rest of the groups problem.</p>
<p>The problem is that with some of these group projects there’s one grade for the group - period. If the work’s divided up and half the group doesn’t do the work then the other half will either need to do it themselves or have their grades suffer. It’s not fair but that’s how some profs structure it. Some other profs are open to feedback about the slackers and will allow the group to adjust due to the slacker, including booting them from the group, but that generally needs to happen pretty early on in the project and of course the non-slacking members of the group have to be assertive enough (and angry enough about it) to pursue it.</p>
<p>I HATE HATE HATE group projects and even team projects for exactly the reasons stated. Has there ever been one where everyone pulled their weight? I doubt it, although theoretically it’s possible. Unfortunately, this will have to be a learning experience for your D. I advised my S against taking an elective psych class, because from the course description he read me, I knew there would be group or pair projects, and I didn’t want to see him involved in that for an elective. </p>
<p>I know it’s a big thing in business programs. I worked with someone once who was pursuing an MBA. This person was an older student grouped with 3 twenty somethings who could have been her children. She complained bitterly, kept after them by phone almost to the point of harrassment, and complained to the teacher. I do think there were graded individually, but it was extremely stressful for her.</p>
<p>The general consistent feedback to stay out of it is certainly making us stop in our tracks. Unfortunately, the grade is a collective one and if our daughter only handed in her part, that’s what the whole group would be graded on which would be an F. We just feel that the school didn’t do their part to supervise the group.<br>
Her situation is complicated by the fact that two of the students live on her floor and she doesn’t feel that she can complain about them.<br>
What about encouraging her to go the professor so he would give them more supervision for the rest of the project? Would that make the others look bad - something she is trying to avoid.</p>
<p>my 2 cents are she needs to talk to the professor and the peer facilitator and tell them the facts. Tell her as long as she allows herself to be taken advantage of by others she WILL be taken advantage of! No one is going to do her work out in the real world, so the sooner she stops being manipulated into doing other peoples work in college, because she doesn’t want to “upset” others or “make them look bad”, the sooner she will be respected by others and feel more confident and better about herself. She has some choices to think about, including whether she wants to continue to live in this learning community, imho.</p>
<p><the 3=“” went=“” to=“” my=“” daughter=“” and=“” said=“” “you’re=”" the=“” smart=“” one=“” here=“” you=“” put=“” it=“” together"=“” they=“” partying.=“”> </the></p>
<p>— These are not friends. — </p>
<p>Remind your D of that, (and that you love her) and let her figure it out with the Prof. If she is not able to resolve it for herself then ask her to see her advisor or perhaps a counselor to talk out her options. But this is her life so let her learn now how not to be a doormat. This is not a “the school is doing it wrong” issue, this is a stand up for yourself or no one else will issue. </p>
<p>(PS: Don’t assume that you are getting a full and completely accurate retelling of the details from your D. You may well be, but don’t assume you are.)</p>
<p>Is there anyone else at all in the group with her to help finish it, both go to the professor with the issue? D had a CS group project with 2 others her first semester last year, one girl did zero work only went tanning/getting nails done, out with BF. The other kid and my daughter did the project but CLEARLY let the professor know who did what and who did not .</p>
<p>It is a college level course I don’t really think it is the schools responsibility to supervise a project.</p>
<p>
I think it’s fine to go to the prof and explain what happened and see if there’s any recourse on her grade due to it and to get advice on how she should handle something like this should it occur on the next group project. </p>
<p>I don’t, however, think it’s a good idea for her to suggest to the prof how to do his job, i.e. to do more supervision of the students in the group. He likely wouldn’t take well to a Freshman (or any student) telling him how to do his job and at this college stage he shouldn’t have to perform close supervision anyway. He’ll want the students to take care of it themselves.</p>
<p>Our kids both had to deal with this sort of thing and they both hate group projects.</p>
<p>As a helicopter dad, I just told our son to keep after everyone in the group and ask where they were every class. If it appeared that they were making no progress on milestones, then I suggested that he do as much or all of the work required. In general, he did the bulk of the work and the others edited his work to add their own content.</p>
<p>Our daughter ran into this for a CS project and I just told her the same thing. It’s a give and take in a group environment and you have to feel the others out. If they are lazy and do nothing, then you have to take it upon yourself to do perhaps the whole project. Life is the same way.</p>
<p>In your particular case, perhaps your daughter could talk to the professor to give her more time on the milestones - it seems to me that she has to do most of the work, perhaps with any help she can get, whether from her group or from her friends not in the group. There’s still plenty of time in this semester to put something together that should at least salvage a decent grade. It’s totally unfair but so is life.</p>
<p>I know everyone hates group projects but they are great learning experiences and the lessons learned from them will serve you well throughout your career. The number one lesson in a group project is not to procrastinate. If there are deadbeats in the group, you want to know it day one so adjustments can be made. It is best if the lesson is learned in high school though. My D learned it then and has been prepared to carry the weight if necessary. Sometimes that is what you do - and it could happen at any time in your life. These kids should not need supervision on a project in college. I cannot imagine getting involved though.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>This is a time when you, as a parent, need to give your daughter emotional support and encouragement – but let her work out the solution to the problem on her own. To do otherwise is to interfere with the learning process. (see below).</p></li>
<li><p>A group project is not merely focused on whatever the project is about – it is also geared to help participants learn how to work effectively within a group, including getting an idea as to which roles they are most suited for. Real life is all about “group projects” – most workplace tasks require people to work together, and very often a person’s career prospects depend on the effectiveness of their group. That there is an imbalance in the amount of work that each person puts in is typical – it happens in the workplace as well. But part of the skills that a person needs to work effectively on a team is to learn how to be proactive – to recognize how to distributed and monitor work assignments. If one person is more concerned about the outcome than others, then that person has an added responsibility – either that person will have to fill in where others slack off, or else that person has to become a good organizer, delegater, and nagger. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Since this project is part of the assignment for a “learning community”, it makes sense that part of the lesson plan is working with others – that is an essential element of a community.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If 30% of your daughter’s grade is based on the group project, then 70% is based on other stuff. 70% A + 30% F = a high C (2.8). 70% B + 30% F = a low C (2.1) So if your daughter does well on her other assignments, she is not facing academic probation, no matter how despondent she is right now.</p></li>
<li><p>One of the lessons that need to be learned along the way, with group work, is how to deal with the issue of others in the group who are not acting in good faith. A “no snitch” practice doesn’t provide a mechanism for accountability – so your daughter is also going to have to make a decision about how much information she decides to share with others when the project is done. </p></li>
<li><p>In the future, if your daughter has other group projects, she will probably learn that simply dividing up an assignment into separate parts is not usually the way to go – unless each part really stands on its own. There can be alternate divisions of labor – for example, some students will inevitably be more skilled writers than others, so it is more efficient to let writers write, and non-writers carry the bulk of the responsibility for research and note-taking.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Right now, all the professor knows is that her group has one slacker. He doesn’t know that the rest of the group has left the building and is counting on your D to do all the work. He doesn’t know that it is affecting your D’s performance in the rest of her classes. </p>
<p>He needs to be informed.</p>
<p>Coach her on how to effectively communicate for herself. This is not about blame (what others did or didn’t do); this isn’t about convincing or berating the others to agree with her; it IS about firmly and calmly stating what she will and will not do and asking for the same info from the others. Saying “This is how it is for me right now.” People respond differently to that kind of clear communication. If they still don’t step up and work, then she needs to get it done this time and learn her lesson and then behave very differently in the next group.<br>
I agree with the above – this is not about a teacher “supervising” or about parents stepping in to fix things. It’s about your daughter learning to stand up for herself, speak clearly and effectively, and work efficiently.<br>
Kids dread “confrontation” because they cannot speak for themselves in the first place. Then things boil up and become all about blame. Girls especially think they have to have everyone like them and agree with them rather than firmly state what they themselves are or are not willing to do.</p>