<p>Can we raise the voting age to 24 -28? </p>
<p>“What do kids want today?”</p>
<p>LongPrime: Penn is $45-$50k a year – the loans aren’t cheap. It’s not like I am just whining – I have legitimate concerns over the costs/affordabilities of this entire situation.</p>
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<p>I can appreciate that must be frustrating. By the same token, there is always going to be someone better off than you and worse off than you – fretting about your relative position won’t change this. Yes, maybe you did have classmates who were handed a lot more than you. However, you can’t do anything about it, you can’t take away their opportunities – you just need to focus on yourself. It sounds as though you’ve come a long way – and maybe you’re not believing in yourself. It’s time to start!</p>
<p>Also, don’t be so focused on the short-term … No one lives a “golden life” straight out of undergrad. No one. You are at the start of your career; this job is not your end point.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and enjoy Chicago.</p>
<p>Folks here have to understand the Wall St. culture of Wharton has warped our pupil’s expectations for remuneration many deviations from the levels pinpointed as reasonable by the people giving advice.</p>
<p>Once cost-of-living and city-adjusted, $50,000 in Chicago may not be below average for a Wharton undergraduate first-year wage.</p>
<p>Legendofmax,
I’ve enjoyed your thoughtful posts over the years. It has been a pleasure watching you grow up and figure out the world around you.</p>
<p>When you take this job, take it with the idea that it’s a first step…and that you will be a step ahead of many others in this uncertain economy and changing world. Sometimes life takes unplanned paths to unexpected delights… for example, my H’s uncle was a gym teacher. Over the years, he volunteered at the synogogue. He had excellent people and managerial skills, but still…he was a gym teacher. But he served on various committees over the years, taking on more and more responsibility. Eventually, he was asked to be the executive director of the synogogue, a position with a high paycheck (for a gym teacher) and a lot of visibility. In that position, he came in contact with a lot of power players in the community…one eventually asked him to run his real estate business for him, eventually making uncle a partner. He retired a real estate mogul and millionaire. </p>
<p>so don’t be too disappointed at the unexpected paths your life may take.</p>
<p>And remember…at least you are now on the path. You will have a real job and real experience on your resume if you want to change jobs in a couple of years when the economy is humming again. A lot of your cohort will be way behind you. Your skills aren’t going anywhere–you’ll still have them, and if you are the smart person you always have been, you will add new skills to your tool box over the next couple of years too.</p>
<p>Maybe a couple of years from now you’ll end up in investment banking or the financial industry. Maybe you will fall in love with real estate. But you will land on your feet.</p>
<p>And I’ve just moved back to Chicago after being gone for a couple of decades. So PM me if I can be of any help to you.</p>
<p>Max, are you familiar with Selection Effects vs. Treatment effects? (You may have studied it in Econ or Game Theory…) The classic examples used are a modeling agency vs. the army. The army can take most anyone and after basic training turn them into a soldier. That’s the treatment effect- what they do to you once you’re there. A modeling agency is selection effect- they can teach you how to walk and how to style your hair, but if you’re 5 ft 2" and overweight with bad teeth and clumsy no amount of modeling school is going to get you on the cover of Vogue. So you can’t compare outcomes or pools of people if one set is emerging from a selection effect environment and the other from treatment effect-- the army doesn’t need to be selective about who it takes (if you read, have two kidneys, and haven’t been convicted of a felony you’re good to go) because they do a thorough job of teaching you how to soldier. But Ford models are incredibly selective about who they take- because an ugly student isn’t going to emerge a model no matter what they do, but a well chosen group of gorgeous people who are photogenic are going to do well as models even if Ford teaches them nothing or next to nothing- the hard part is in the selection, not what gets taught once you’re there.</p>
<p>Why am I telling you this? IMHO you are trying to compare yourself- the product of a rigorous treatment effect environment (Wharton) with all the kids you know who are the products of selection effect environments (influential parents, top HS, affluent communities, “people who know people”.) Those kids would have ended up in high paying jobs regardless of how hard they worked, or somewhat independent of how tough it was for them to get through Wharton. They walked in advantaged, they walked out advantaged, and their salaries now reflect all those advantages.</p>
<p>You walked in behind the 8 ball (on everything but drive, intellect, and humanity) and managed to wring every bit of advantage out of Wharton that you could. Without any connections, without family support, without people to bounce ideas off of or do practice interviews, or even just a suggestion, “why not call uncle Ted- he plays tennis with the CFO of Uber-bank and may have some ideas for you”, you have managed to end up in virtually the same place (give or take a few thousand bucks.) As Molly Ivens (correct me if I have the citation wrong) said about George Bush, “he was born on third base but thinks he hit a triple”. You started at home plate, played fair and square, and have managed to land a real job with a professional firm at a good salary in a fun and liveable city with lots of young people just like you.</p>
<p>That is really a cause for celebration. You’re going to do great things.</p>
<p>And Max, for what it’s worth- if you were my kid I’d be busting with pride over the young man you’ve turned out to be. Your tenacity is going to hold you in good stead- you will learn everything you need to know about networking and self-promotion and all those things, but nobody can teach you what you already have learned- don’t give up, and deliver 100%.</p>
<p>What a wonderful accomplishment to find a great job in such a dismal economic environment! And just think you’ll never have to wonder if your family connections got you the job!</p>
<p>blossom: Thanks again for those posts and the extremely kind words – I’m feeling quite a bit better about the whole thing. I suppose I’ve just been around other Whartonites so long that I’ve neglected to really take into account what I’m comparing myself to. It is, after all, an opportunity to live in a new city and explore/travel, which is something I always enjoy doing. Given that I can find a few roommates, I’ll be able to afford housing, meet some new people, and hopefully be able to properly manage my loan repayments and have enough left over to still have some fun. And, again, as you have all said, I don’t have to work there forever. If things are going well, I’ll already be established in a city with numerous opportunities (and hopefully in a better economy!). Considering that many Whartonites are not even working finance right now (but rather pursuing completely unrelated fields or waiting tables/bars, etc), I should feel lucky. I’m honestly feeling a lot better about this. Thank you all for helping to put the big picture in perspective.</p>
<p>Other than the weather, Chicago >> Philly.</p>
<p>We understand your costs. Whether its $20K or $50K, its only relative to your attitude. You can intellectualize your choices all day long and the results will still be the same tomorrow. You did what you needed to do, and got it done. Congratulations. Continue with CANDO attitude and you may get what you want. </p>
<p>Attitude is Everything.</p>
<p>echo Mapsy’s D experience.
DS was armed with 2-BS and 1-MS engineering degrees from “prestigious” engineering universities, 3 coveted internships post MS, great LORs, but the job search took April 2008-March 2009, before a single job was offered. He had multiple offers from hiring managers from one of his internships, but the HR department killed every one them all.</p>
<p>I am glad you are coming around legend! I agree with the parents that you are doing the right thing. I know it is not your ideal dream job, but it is in that direction. You will gain loads of experience. You can’t always hit a home run, especially for a dream job. You will be much closer to your ideal job working in finance in Chicago than sitting around looking for a different job. Only 20% of the class of 2009 has job offers, and I know you think you should be in the high end of the class of 2009 coming from Wharton with internships etc, and to that I would say… you are. You are the one who has the job offer. Not only 1 job offer, but 2 (since you already turned down the NYC offer). And they are good job offers. You are doing much better than most. I think you will love it in Chicago once you get your housing situation settled! =)</p>
<p>Max, you have gotten lots of terrific advice here. One thing I’ll add: Be humble!! I can’t stress that too much. Don’t show any arrogance, even a glimmer, even once. Be kind to everyone. Treat the receptionist, the cleaning people, everyone, with as much respect as you would treat the CEO.</p>
<p>I read in a local newspaper that almost 80% of college graduates find their first job through networking. I tried to validate that figure, but I was unable to find any data. Does anyone know if it’s correct?</p>
<p>Both my kids found their first jobs after graduation through networking, as did most of my friend’s kids. After my daughter graduated from MIT, I encouraged her to network with everyone and every organization with which she might have a connection in order to further her job search. The ONLY interviews she got were the result of networking, although she sent out dozens and dozens of cold-call resumes. She found the unadvertised position for which she later received a job offer through the friend of a friend of a classmate. She also found contract work through networking that provided financial support (and work experience!) while she was actively engaged in her job search.</p>
<p>I can’t overemphasize the importance of networking. While skill sets are important, it’s often who you know that will have the most influence on your ultimate career path.</p>
<p>mapesy, that has been true for every job H and I have ever gotten and true for the paid internship job our college senior just got. The internships his friends received were the result of networking and most of their job offers have been a result of those internships or further networking as well, so I would agree. </p>
<p>In the firms I have worked for, many of the job postings are made after the position has been filled just to fulfill legal requirements. I assume finding the first job can be less dependent on networking, particularly if the grad finds something through on campus recruitment in the fall of their senior year. But after that window of opportunity passes, I think finding and using connections becomes critically important.</p>
<p>I think the current economy has made networking somewhat less effective- at least in some professions. The jobs simply aren’t there and all the networking in the world can’t create them.</p>
<p>^^That may be true for some professions, but everything I’ve read recently says networking is MORE important in a bad economic environment. From the Wall Street Journal:</p>
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<p>This was a dismal year for recent college grads hoping to land a job in investment banking. Of the kids my daughter knew at MIT who hoped for a career in IB, only the tippy-top students with previous internship experience got IB job offers at graduation. </p>
<p>An acquaintance’s kid landed an IB job this year through a close friend of their family. I have absolutely no doubt that legendofmax would have been a more qualified candidate skills-wise for this job.</p>
<p>@Legend: I’m coming late to this discussion. I just wanted to add that this is your first real job after earning your BA; it’s not your last, nor is it one you would get if you were to go on to get an MBA in a few years.</p>
<p>Congratulations on this job! You can live on $50K in Chicago, a salary that should increase steadily in any case. Depending on the type of organization you’re in you may need to get an advanced degree to really move into the money.</p>
<p>Alternatively, this could be a launching pad for a very different career line. The case I know best involves a kid who started at a major accounting/consulting firm in Chicago, got bored, and then took his skills in an entirely new direction after 4 years (but not to seek another degree); now, 8 years after his BA, he’s essentially on his third “career line” (though using his core skills) and is also one of his original firm’s most famous former employees (and earning a very substantial income).</p>
<p>You should use this job not so much to be constantly on the lookout for the next job but as a way to discover your true interests and talents so that you can make good decisions further down the road.</p>
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<p>Completely agree, MOWC.</p>
<p>Yeah, traditionally I resort to just sending my resume in to various firms. The results are a bit bleak.</p>