How Much Do You think You Need to Retire/What Age Will You/Spouse Retire: General Retirement Issues (Part 2)

Before you posted more, I was thinking your friend was older and no children. But with a teenage DD, she wants to make sure she is properly ‘launched’. College savings account is fine, but depending on how much it takes for the DD to get a degree and gets herself properly settled with job/housing/etc. Then if there are wedding expenses or if DD has a child but not a good situation financially (and maybe also becomes a single mother) - making sure about that all being taken care of. With this lady sending money home to her parents - yes, that shows she will want to be sure about DD and any grandchildren being properly settled.

I also know the athletic scholarship thinking - often the student wants to go to a school which isn’t a match for ability level, or the student progresses on a degree that is kind of light weight. Some schools do provide great tutoring assistance during the height of the competition times - which nephew had a good match on getting a business degree while also playing wide receiver on football. Sometimes partial athletic scholarship, so need to pay room and board and half of tuition or a part of tuition expenses.

Glad you are helping her with a projected budget.

At 43, “would love to retire early”. I do think she needs enough of a nest egg to generate a lot more so that by the time she is 65, she has a healthy nest egg. What is healthy? I think $1 M is too low – but there are some indicators that factor in one’s age and how not to outlive one’s money. So too young at 43, and too young probably into her 50’s unless a really significant nest egg. In one’s 60’s, it depends on a lot of things.

Does she think she can be a ‘good saver’ and retire at a certain age?

Maybe as self employed, she can think of other things she might want to do w/o working until 65 with her current situation. I cannot see Medicare age changing.

DH and I are not ‘wealthy’, but feel comfortable. Our net worth is about $2.5 M, and we are 66. We are in a lower tax state, with low property taxes but even lower with age 65 discount (1/2 rate plus $50 on house we live in each year). DH and I am concerned about DDs and grandchildren - and want to leave an inheritance; I had some inheritance and my dad did very well considering he died at 64, and the estate did not shrink (mom died at 77). I have 4 siblings, and each got the same healthy inheritance.

You also said she was a saver.

Does she want a ‘goal’ to motivate her?

The low interest rates maybe makes me think she got the mortgages with a less than 30 year payoff. At those low interest rates, until she is really close to retirement, I would not payoff early. We almost had a 10 year 2.5% interest rate paid off on our home, and I found another 10 year 2.5% interest rate (locked it in a day before it was going to go up) – we could have borrowed more than we did but I was comfortable with the monthly payments.

I agree with your comments about her naïve thinking about one paid off house providing her the income plus SS being sufficient living in the other paid off house.

Unless she works for the government or a school system (and you said she was self employed), or an employer that she can have insurance coverage at a reasonable price before she is 65. That could happen or change if she changes jobs, but it sounds like she is stable in her career plans.

Also, at 65 (DH and I are both 66) we have a fair amount of expenses with Medicare, Supplement, Drug Supplement, additional medication costs. One can go with a less expensive route than we are doing, but we want coverage when we travel and also want to have what we would consider medically necessities which an Advantage Plan my not reliably pay for.

One also has to prepare for the unexpected. With the recent winds/tornadoes, a big tree from next door got on this lady’s roof. IDK why she doesn’t have insurance that will cover, but it may be that the neighbor is not liable with her insurance to cover. This incident may have a state by state interpretation, IDK. But stuff happens, and one does not want to be so thin in retirement money that money (or lack of money) becomes a stress factor for a highly unusual event. A major accident, disability. Lots of unknowns and too much time before 65.

DH’s younger brother wanted to retire younger (his wife is older and retired for years) - but he possibly has cancer and would need to stay on his company’s health insurance – so that is interrupting his plan. This brother just turned 63. His plan was to retire the end of May, and having enough to pay the COBRA or on his wife’s retired teacher insurance plan until he was Medicare eligible in 2 years. He is a bit lean on his retirement funds (another brother, DH and I all agree), but he can also live on rice and beans (for anyone not in the South, may not have heard this term, but essentially living on a shoestring budget).

@Blueberriesforsal made some great comments today.

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At 43, it’s too early to think about retirement. She should just keep on what she’s been doing, saving and investing. Twenty more years of saving, 104K contribution, compounding growth will drastically change the scenario she’s imagining now.

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The 3% is a 30 year loan; the 2.5% is a 20. I think she’s coming around to the idea of not prepaying.

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Good idea to keep these low rate mortgages. Mention to her that CDs pay more than that! :slight_smile:

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Paying to launch your children after one has gotten them through college is a want, not a need. Sherpa’s friend needs to focus on college and her own retirement, first and foremost.

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Aren’t there also some implications to owning rental property with regards to CSS schools and how they look at assets?something to potentially consider when making up college list

The rental property equity will be considered an asset by both the CSS Profile AND the FAFSA forms. Rentals will be considered income.

But really…if she has college savings…this might not be a concern at all.

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How does your friend handle the maintenance of her rental property? My parents had several rental properties and for every wonderful tenant there were two tenants from hell. Not something I would want to deal with in retirement.

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It’s all about selecting tenants carefully. In her case, she’s renting to a responsible friend who pays all utilities and handles all minor maintenance as if it’s their own home.

We have rentals too, and we require a minimum 700 credit score and verifiable income of three times the rent amount. That weeds out the tenants from hell. It also helps that our apartments are new and perfectly maintained.

15 apartments, 2 years, and 80% of the rents come in electronically before the first of the month. Occasionally a paper check will show up on the 2nd of the month, but that’s the latest anyone’s been.

Bottom line, own quality property, choose good people, treat them with respect, and rental properties can be easy to own.

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My parents owned rental properties way back–before electronic payments and credit scores. One of their worst tenants was a physician, who clearly had the ability to pay the rent. He did lots of physical damage to the apartment. I don’t remember the specifics.

If you’re implying that only landlords who own crappy rentals they don’t maintain or landlords who don’t treat renters with respect end up with deadbeat tenants, I can tell you my parents did not fall in that category. Sometimes, no matter how careful you are, you end up with a bad tenant. That’s just not something I want to have to handle. Happy that you don’t have problems with tenants.

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I owned a second home and had the same kind of wonderful tenant…and then a second one following who was as wonderful.

But…after that, I sold the second house. My responsible friends (house was far away also) didn’t need homes….they had them. It was just easier to sell.

But I did sell to a responsible friend🙂

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@Bromfield2 - I understand what you’re saying, and I agree that owning a collection of single family homes sounds like a potential nightmare.

But investment real estate comes in many flavors. The easiest to manage that I’ve ever owned was a warehouse rented to a single tenant, where they were responsible for all expenses including maintenance and property taxes. Eventually we sold them the building.

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In retirement we’re not sure how long we’ll want to maintain one house… much less two. But the friend always has the option to sell the rental, convert it to a nest egg of savings.

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Yes, but remember, she is helping her parents with money every month – so she will be thinking of what she is willing to do for her only child. She is also young enough to be working another 20 years (more or less) unless health precludes that happening. We are talking one child here, and she also, as a saver, is not going to go one the far end of a private or out of state public at full cost either.

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Purchasing and maintaining various properties can be a key. Keeping funds available for big ticket items that can fail - HVAC, roof, etc. Working with trustworthy and reasonable cost key maintenance personnel - plumbing, etc.

Some people may or may not be suitable to handle property management (and they may have a property manager) if they have some strong properties in markets that are favorable.

A latest thing is if a person has a service animal, cannot discriminate against. Your property may have a limitation against an animal of a certain size, or may be no dogs or cats. So if you have carpeting, or other things that a service animal (I am thinking a dog) can damage, have to have that in your rental agreement. Some states it is easy to get a MD to sign a simple one page document that the person needs the animal for service (be it anxiety for example) – then there may be no pet deposit either.

My dad, a builder, had 21 apartments in 3 buildings - two which were built new, and one had 5 apartments in a converted 2 story commercial building which originally had one very large apartment on 2nd floor. The two new buildings included included 2 townhomes with 2 car garages, 4 two bedroom apartments each with a one car garage, and 6 one bedroom apartments each with a one car garage. We would have hung onto them if it was in the bigger city where it would make more sense for us to hang onto them. Well built, low maintenance. Only had trouble with 1 renter, and he threatened to damage the unit if he didn’t get the full security deposit back when he left. Sometimes you cannot totally eliminate an oddity like he was.

@SOSConcern is right; you need to be prepared for unexpected expenses as well as regulatory changes. Rent control is making a comeback in many markets, as is the concept that housing is a “right”, landlords’ rights be damned. Trends such as prohibitions on utilizing credit checks (as if creditworthiness isn’t a valid concern), mandates that security deposits can be paid in monthly installments (thereby defeating the security that a deposit gives), as well as proposals that tenants be given 6 month or more advance notice of a rent increase, and be allowed to break the lease any time within said 6 months without penalty.

Clearly not for everyone. But which would you prefer to have, $1,000,000 in bonds yielding $30,000/year, or $1,000,000 in debt free real estate yielding $60,000/year, with the income rising in line with inflation?

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I know in WI, at a time when my dad also owned a few houses he bought for the land - he was warned about one lady (she actually was my classmate’s mom, but my classmate and his older sister kind of had to navigate life on their own) - and sure enough, over some winter months she stopped paying rent. In WI, at that time, at least where the property was, you could not evict over certain winter months. As soon as she was out, he tore the house down.

Oh, I wouldn’t rule out the mom being unwilling to support an expensive private or OOS because she’s a saver. Many parents here sacrificed to do just that.

I would not expect my children to pay for our support, though I acknowledge that others’ circumstances may differ.

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This mom values education, but will be pragmatic about the cost.

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Yay - looks like our taxes aren’t as bad as I thought they might be. Husband says it doesn’t look like we have to pay any penalties.
I do want to do an after tax ROTH, but besides that they are about done.
Thank you husband!

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