<p>Son seems to be in a similar position, but whereas I USED to think he was on the coaches radar, it would be a huge stretch to suggest that now. Interestingly, son still has Amherst and Midd as his tie for #1. And I guess it works because for him it was all about the school and THEN if he could play. The school will always come first. However, my son HAS had a few B+ in HS, but it is beyond rare for any student to have all A's at my son's school... and that includes A-'s!</p>
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Admissions has to balance lots of things, including quite a few coaches with quite a few requests...
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<p>No. That's not the way it works. The whole point of the formal tip system is to prevent the admissions office from having to "juggle" coaches' requests.</p>
<p>The tips and protects are formal numbers of slots controlled by the athletic department. A student being admitted as a tip by the athletic department still has to pass the basic admissions review and the overall distribution of academic ratings for the group of tips must meet the school's guidelines, but that process is carried out long before now. Once the athletic dept and the admissions office agree on a list, the athletic department chooses the specific athletes to be accepted.</p>
<p>I said this elsewhere but the coach specifically told my son he would not use a slot on him. However, he did say he was going to support his application (ostensibly this was because he fell well within the school's numbers for admits). However, we didn't hear much from this coach after this. So.. whereas one parent whose son applied ED and was accepted told me their experience was similar (that after that conversation they didn't hear from the coach until after he was accepted), as we've read here, coaches often maintain contact with prospective student athletes all the way through admission letters. </p>
<p>But I agree with Interesteddad in that, these lists are very much in the past now and typically are usually pretty set coming into the fall. Lacrosse lists out east are usually pretty solid following a kid's sophomore year.</p>
<p>Mmm... that's not like anything I've heard before, but you have your sources, I suppose. My son was on a coach's list at Amherst, although not a tip (he wasn't as competitive as those select guys, and he did already have the academic stats to get admitted regardless). I think the main difference between his admissions process and Jessephen and Modadunn's kids' is that he applied ED, when --consensus has it, although I wasn't personally in on the internal workings ;)-- the influence of a coach on admissions may have a somewhat more predictable outcome.</p>
<p>Modadunn, my son had no contact with the coach once he submitted his application. In fact, the coach told him he was not permitted to contact him until after admissions decisions. And, actually, my son didn't even know he was "on the list" until the coach told him after he'd gotten his acceptance letter. (I don't doubt some coaches may maintain contact throughout regardless.)</p>
<p>"On the list" (but not a tip or a protect) means "you are on your own, kid". Both rent0f2 and modadunn's sons were/are going through the normal admissions track.</p>
<p>While it is technically against the rules for the coach to notify recruits of admissions decisions, it is very common at Williams (and I presume Amherst) for coaches to inform tips and protects of their acceptances before the letters arrive.</p>
<p>Well.. your experience is very much like ours has been thus far. And similar to our friend's son who applied ED -- but that was in the middle of December. :) I guess if what you say is correct, then there might be good news come next month, but I think it is wise to keep all doors open and hope for the best (preparing for disappointment).</p>
<p>My son was invited to attend a recruiting weekend at Williams. The coach indicated to our guidance counselor that he would support his application. There was no mention of tips or protects. There were 7 athletes in his sport that applied ED and 6 were admitted. The 6 that were admitted, including my son, were all characterized as being academically qualified for Williams. I believe all 6 will also be contributors to the sport for most, if not all of the time that they will be at Williams. Another athlete from our high school, different sport, had the support of the coach but not the same academic qualifications as my son. This other athlete was rejected outright in ED.</p>
<p>Oh gosh I didn't want anyone to think that if my D didn't get admitted I was going to blame the coach. I did not mean that at all. She has gotten plenty of e-mail from him - very encouraging and now is in contact with two other students on the team as well as the coach. She was told that things "looked very positive" but that obviously admissions is the only one that can offer admissions. I just think it would be a shame after all this contact and her getting her hopes up if she didn't get in - I think A has moved to the top of her list. If she doesn't get in she will get in at another good school she applied to and she will be fine. Up until recently she really didn't have a favorite school so I think she would be happy at many of her schools.
If she doesn't get in we realize that plenty of qualified applicants get rejected at all the schools she applied to. Gosh I just read the Gatekeepers (which is about Wesleyan but probably holds true for most small LACs) and even more came to realize what a chance admissions at these type of schools can be. Look at the "official 2012 decision thread" from Harvard and realize how many kids with perfect SAT scores got rejected. Obviously you must be qualified but you must have that something else that you can contribute to the school and some luck won't hurt either!</p>
<p>Yeah, MidwesternDad, when we were dealing with this last year, there were emails from different coaches and invitations to recruiting weekends (although my son didn't opt to attend any), but never a mention of jargon like "tips" and "protects" -- only, as was the case in your experience, some comments like "helping in the admissions process" and words like "support your application" and being "on the list." I first read of the "tips" and "protects" concept online (it was on a Williams-related blog/board/articles) and I think that is where most people get this information.</p>
<p>However it all works, Modadunn and Jessephen, I hope your kids get acceptances where they most want them. I'm sure they'll do great at whichever wonderful school they attend.</p>
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"and I think that is where most people get this information"
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<p>Yes and no. The Williams Ad Hoc Faculty Report on Athletics spelled out the tip system in great detail. However, the system is basically modelled after the Ivy League rules allowing "x" number of recruits one standard deviation below average, "x" number two standard deviations below average, and so forth. The academic rating system that the Ivies and Amherst and Williams use grew out of the Ivy recruiting rules.</p>
<p>Dean of Admissions Robin Mamlet instituted a tip system at Swarthmore before leaving for Stanford in 2000. She was sick of the never-ending negotiations with the coaches and finally just said to the College, set a policy. Tell us how many slot for recruiting. We'll work with the athletic department and tell them which kids we can admit and which we can't, but we want out of the business of picking athletic tips. Let the athletic department hammer it out with the coaches and then just hand us the list of tips they want.</p>
<p>The only thing that really differs from school to school is the number of tips, how low will the school go, and what is the role of the admissions office in determining whether a recruit is admissible?</p>
<p>I imagine we'll all know more at the end of the month to see where any of these kids stand that didn't apply ED. I know my son is fully qualified and has the "numbers" as they say to gain admission to Amherst. However, so do a lot of other kids. I am not so naive to think he is any more special than anyone else's kid who has worked hard and it always bothers me when I read about acceptances during ED about how someone's rejection was a personal failure of character and/or being. </p>
<p>So.. I think if nothing else we follow up with this thread for those who go searching for info in the future. Frankly, I just can't believe it's less than a month away now!!</p>
<p>Wow, I hope you're not reading much about how someone's rejection is a personal failure! Anyone who says that about applicants to these kinds of schools is especially dense.</p>
<p>That is exactly what the prevailing attitude was during the ED round at Dartmouth. That if student A got in and student B didn't, it was because student A was just "more special" and that Student B ought to take a look at his application and figure out where he went wrong. There was no such thing as "crapshoot" and it was all a very specific process where only the X number of students accepted were the only qualified group of the bunch. Let me be clear, this was not my opinion in the least. But it was the prevailing one by those admitted. And yes, I agree. Dense.</p>
<p>I think I told you already about the kid I know who was rejected ED at Dartmouth: 2300+ SAT, excellent (almost perfect) grades from a top selective prep school, legacy (father was an alumus interviewer for the college for years, and a generous donor), great teacher recs... blah, blah, blah. He wasn't even deferred. Go figure. Crapshoot, indeed. Anyway, his father won't be doing any more admissions interviews or writing anymore checks, and the kid is really, really happy where is now!</p>