<p>For engineering majors (particularly chemical) is a lot of emphasis placed upon where you received your degree from? I know that for business majors that if you didn't go to a certain college it becomes very difficult to get certain jobs. Does that rule apply to engineering majors as well? For instance will a kid who graduated from a "third tier university" be able to get the same job opportunities as a kid who went to a top university?</p>
<p>Feedback greatly appreciated...</p>
<p>I'm also interested in shazilla's question. Anyone?</p>
<p>Sakky spouts that it doesn't matter as much for engineers.</p>
<p>I've seen some of his posts (just in one thread) and most of the time he is comparing a top college to another top college that is like 5 spots down on the prestige list... I'm talking about comparing a top 20 engineering school to a third tier uni...</p>
<p>There's a difference.</p>
<p>People are more likely to hire an engineer from a program if they're confident in the adequacy of the program's academics.</p>
<p>hmm... well i was just reading some more of sakky's posts and he mentioned ABET so I looked it up to see what it is and i found this on wiki:</p>
<p>"Because of ABET's involvement, engineering curricula are largely standardized at the bachelor's level, thus ensuring that graduates of any ABET-accredited program have a similar skillset for entry into the workforce or for future education."</p>
<p>...so shouldn't that mean that anyone who graduates from an ABET accredited school is prepared properly... so shouldn't most ABET accredited schools be treated equally?</p>
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For engineering majors (particularly chemical) is a lot of emphasis placed upon where you received your degree from? I know that for business majors that if you didn't go to a certain college it becomes very difficult to get certain jobs. Does that rule apply to engineering majors as well? For instance will a kid who graduated from a "third tier university" be able to get the same job opportunities as a kid who went to a top university?
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<p>If you're just talking strictly about engineering jobs, then it doesn't matter AS MUCH. But it still has some effect. There really are some highly elitist and selective engineering companies out there, Google probably being the pre-eminent example. </p>
<p>Consider this snippet from Fortune Magazine:</p>
<p>"For the most part, it takes a degree from an Ivy League school, or MIT, Stanford, CalTech, or Carnegie Mellon--America's top engineering schools--even to get invited to interview. Brin and Page still keep a hand in all the hiring, from executives to administrative assistants. And to them, work experience counts far less than where you went to school, how you did on your SATs, and your grade-point average. "If you've been at Cisco for 20 years, they don't want you," says an employee. "</p>
<p>On the other hand, as I have said many times, the difference is not that dramatic between the top and the bottom when it comes to engineering. Those who graduate from the top schools are not really making THAT much more than those who graduate from no-name schools. They're making more, but the difference isn't huge. For example, you can take a gander at the average starting salaries obtained from grads of the top engineering schools and you will notice that they really aren't THAT much higher than the national average, especially after you factor out geographic cost-of-living adjustments. </p>
<p>Incidentally, I think this is a big reason why the top engineering students often times do not want to work as engineers, instead preferring to work in other fields (i.e. banking, consulting). The truth is, engineering firms aren't paying them as well as their talent level would dictate, and these highly talented individuals realize that they can get better offers from other industries. </p>
<p>In other words, engineering is an excellent deal for the mediocre students. If you barely graduated from high school, then, the truth is, becoming an engineer and getting that engineering salary is probably far better than anything else you could be doing. Even the average chemical engineer from the average school makes a higher starting salary than the average Princeton grad (from all majors). But if you're one of the top students, you may have better options elsewhere, as the fact is, engineering does not reward its top people the way that other fields do.</p>
<p>i thought most mediocre kids wouldn't be able to get through an engineering program...</p>
<p>Also I've always found that thing with google kind of ridiculous considering that Sergey Brin got his under grad degree from University of Maryland and Larry Page got his from University of Michigan... so they are saying they won't hire kids from their alma maters? that's messed up... just to mention it they both have Master's degrees from Stanford but the fact they make it so hard for kids who didn't graduate from top schools when they themselves didn't even attend schools on their "top schools" list for under grad has always struck me as odd...</p>
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hmm... well i was just reading some more of sakky's posts and he mentioned ABET so I looked it up to see what it is and i found this on wiki:</p>
<p>"Because of ABET's involvement, engineering curricula are largely standardized at the bachelor's level, thus ensuring that graduates of any ABET-accredited program have a similar skillset for entry into the workforce or for future education."</p>
<p>...so shouldn't that mean that anyone who graduates from an ABET accredited school is prepared properly... so shouldn't most ABET accredited schools be treated equally
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<p>First off, the utility of ABET varies widely. There are certain engineering fields where ABET matters a lot. Like CivE. Perhaps ME. To a limited extent ChemE. These are the fields in which becoming a Professional Engineer (and thus having the necessary ABET certification) are the most valuable. </p>
<p>But then there are other fields where ABET hardly matters at all. MatSci, BioE, and Computer Science immediately come to mind. There are plenty of excellent programs in these fields that are not ABET accredited. Heck, Berkeley offers unaccredited programs in all 3 of those fields that are all widely regarded as strong programs. </p>
<p>But even if we were to talk strictly about ABET certified programs, the fact is, there is a wide range of rigor and quality within those programs. ABET merely states what the minimum standards are for certification. Schools are free to go far and beyond the minimums, and many do. Let's face it. It's far far harder to graduate from an ABET-accredited program at MIT than from the equivalent ABET-accredited program at a no-name school. This is true for 2 reasons. #1, obviously MIT is much more difficult to get into. And #2, even if you do get in, MIT is also extremely difficult to complete. Work quality that might get you a passing grade at some no-name school could easily earn you an 'F' at MIT.</p>
<p>I think you have to pass a standardized engineering competency test upon completion of your degree, or before you can call yourself an engineer... this test, I believe, evens the playing field, because once you pass it, well... you prove you have the capacity to do the work with all others who have passed the test... sort of how the CPA exam goes...once you kick your own ass and pass the test, you are in the club.</p>
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i thought most mediocre kids wouldn't be able to get through an engineering program...
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<p>I'm not talking about those kids who are SO mediocre that they can't even graduate. Heck, there are people who can't even graduate from cheesepuff majors at community colleges. There are people who can't even graduate from high school. </p>
<p>I am talking about a guy who barely makes it through a low-level engineering program (but still makes it). I.e. the guy who graduates in last place at some 4th tier program. For him, working as an engineer may the best job he could ever get, and if he didn't have that, he might have ended up no better than working at the mall. For him, engineering is a supersweet deal because it's a lot better than any of his alternatives.</p>
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I think you have to pass a standardized engineering competency test upon completion of your degree, or before you can call yourself an engineer... this test, I believe, evens the playing field, because once you pass it, well... you prove you have the capacity to do the work with all others who have passed the test... sort of how the CPA exam goes...once you kick your own ass and pass the test, you are in the club.
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<p>What you are referring to are the tests required to become a PE.</p>
<p>But the fact is, the vast majority of engineers do not become PE's, nor do they really want to be. Like I said, the PE designation is really only useful in certain fields, and not useful in others. Few EE's, for example, care about PE status, and EE is by far the largest of all of the engineering disciplines, comprising about half of all engineers. PetE's, MatSci's, BioE's, ComputerE's, and Computer Scientists also similarly don't care much about the PE. Some ME's, IndustrialE's, and ChemE's will care, but certainly not all or even most of them. It's generally only CivE's that find the PE status to be truly useful. </p>
<p>And of course, if you take your engineering degree and use it to get into consulting or banking, then you really don't care about the PE.</p>
<p>Ok, I see, so it's not actually required to finish an engineering degree? I'm sorry, I shouldn't talk because I don't know a ton about the engineering discipline, I just have a couple friends who had to take some test to be able to graduate as MechE's.</p>
<p>PE licensing exams are something you take after 4 years of practicing engineering under a licensed engineer.</p>
<p>Here's some info... and this could be just at the school where my friends went:</p>
<p>"To qualify for the BSME degree, all Mechanical Engineering students must pass the nationally composed and graded Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) Exam, offered twice yearly (in April and October). Information is available in the SSO. The FE should be taken at the earliest opportunity in the student’s senior year. Application must be submitted by February or August deadline. Application and testing deadlines vary each year. Check the form for current dates. "</p>
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To qualify for the BSME degree, all Mechanical Engineering students must pass the nationally composed and graded Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) Exam, offered twice yearly (in April and October). Information is available in the SSO. The FE should be taken at the earliest opportunity in the student’s senior year. Application must be submitted by February or August deadline. Application and testing deadlines vary each year. Check the form for current dates. "
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<p>This sounds like a school-specific thing. No such requirement is necessary to get a ME degree at MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, or Caltech. I have to imagine that most ME schools do not require passing the FE.</p>
<p>Many schools have unique graduation requirements. For example, MIT requires all of its undergrad ME's to write a thesis. Princeton requires all of its undergrads in all majors to write a thesis. This is not the case at most other schools.</p>
<p>Ok, I did some research... the FE is a prerequisite to eventually become a PE licensed engineer. The FE essentially qualifies an engineer to be an EI or EIT... after a certain amount of experience, an engineer can then sit for the PE... and gain whatever benefits that provides for your engineering career. I was probably a little bit/way off base comparing the engineering test to the CPA.</p>
<p>About five years after you graduate I would highly doubt that many places even care where you go to school. Work experience is simply a much better predictor of success than where you got the degree.</p>
<p>Once you get the work experience, many employers just will not care about your school. Let me say this again...I DID NOT EVEN HAVE A 3.0 GPA AS AN UNDERGRAD. I was still hired by a large firm right out of undergrad.</p>
<p>Demand also plays a role. In the Oracle database-data warehousing world, there are just not enough folks out there who know that skill. Add to that, where I live (Washington DC area) folks with security clearances are coverted. Recruiters are actually offering $5,000 if I can find anyone (and they hire them). That's free money and the problem is I can't even FIND folks. The ones I know already have jobs.</p>
<p>I got into grad school going the non-degree/graduate certificate route. University of Wisconsin-Platteville has a M.S. Engineering degree program that caters to folks like myself.</p>
<p>And the employers?...they didn't even CARE it was UW-Platteville. If anything, they still grouped it under the U of Wisconsin "umbrella" (which has a top-15 engineering ranking) and paid me accordingly.</p>
<p>It's not all about ABET and curriculum. The reason why some schools are rated highly is because of the systems around the eduction, the research, facilities, talent level of students, the greater connections that can be made...</p>
<p>A lot of times, u get hired not from how well u did in class, but how well u made connections in industry, academia, etc.</p>