<p>Hi everyone! To get straight to the point, I was admitted to University of Minnesota and University of California- Berkeley as my undergraduate school, psychology program. I prefer UCB but that's beside the point; UCB will cost me around 128,000 in loan [total for 4 years], whereas UMinnesota will only cost me 9,000 in loan [total for 3 years, since i will graduate early b/c of the ap credits] after all the grants and stuff are taken into account. Since UMinnesota and UCB are similar in psychology department rankings anyway, I'm seriously considering taking UMinn. But I'm afriad that willl hurt my chances of getting into a decent graduate school, since UMinn isn't as "good" of a school than UCB is. Can anyone give me an advice on what to do? Should I just attend Berkeley and worry about the debt later?</p>
<p>Uh, you should go to Minnesota, take the money and run. Without question or debate.</p>
<p>UMN is a well-regarded state flagship research university and you can pay for an entire graduate program in psychology with the $119,000 you save.</p>
<p>There is not a single university in the country worth $130,000 in debt.</p>
<p>You need as little debt as possible coming into graduate school.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your reply!
You really think so? Wouldn’t I be severely disadvantaged when I apply to top graduate schools (for psychology) in comparison to students who will be attending berkeley?</p>
<p>Go to Minnesota. It is a member of the Association of American Universities and it’s a great school. </p>
<p>Also, I don’t know how reputable this is, but it says that UMinnesota is better than Berkeley in it’s UG Psych program.</p>
<p>[Top</a> 10 Psychology Colleges in the USA](<a href=“GoDaddy Corporate Domains - Protected”>GoDaddy Corporate Domains - Protected)</p>
<p>Doesn’t matter where other students go - it’s what they do while they’re there that matters. If you have a lot of solid research experience and excellent letters of recommendation (along with a good personal statement, etc. etc.), you will still be competitive.</p>
<p>However, you have to consider - what if, in 3 or 4 years, you decide you don’t want to go to graduate school and you are pulled in another direction? The debt at UCB just isn’t worth it. I began college with an interest in clinical psychology. As I progressed in the psychology program I became more interested in social psychological research. Now, a year after graduating with a BA in psychology, I am interested in marketing/consumer behavior, which is still closely related to social psych but not much to clinical. You have no idea what will interest you in a few years, so it is wise to look at the finances. Only $9k in debt will give you far more flexibility in choosing grad schools, careers, etc. than $128k will. You’ll be stressed over bills before you even graduate!</p>
<p>As a UC booster, I say go to Minnesota. The debt differential is too great. You would have to be crazy to go to Berkeley. You can always go to Berkeley for Grad School.</p>
<p>This is a no brainer. They are both top 10 schools for psychology and you would not be at a disadvantage at either one when applying to grad schools. The debt difference is HUGE, so you would be crazy to pick Berkeley over Minnesota unless you absolutely can’t stand the cold and its life threatening!</p>
<p>Thanks for all your replies. So you’re all suggesting that I attend UMinnesota, because A) the difference between the (rank of) two schools in psych department is minuscule and B) the difference between the cost of the two schools is huge, correct?
To be completely honest, the thought of going to Minnesota makes me feel almost miserable. I really don’t want to give up on Berkeley. 
Because, in my stuck-up, snobby mind, Berkeley is better than Minnesota, and it’s like giving up on my dream because of money. But it’s okay, I’ll live. It’ll be ok. </p>
<p>anyway,
Is there ANY way that I can see what post-undergraduate schools the undergrad students at UMinnesota attend afterwards? I’ve been googling without success. Just “this many people get admitted into this institution” is fine. well, you get what i mean. i realize that people who aren’t uminnesota students probably won’t know because this question is way too specific, but any broad site that provide this kind of information would be great. Thanks!</p>
<p>There are certainly times when having the brand name gives you an advantage, but if you want to go to grad school, it’s more about what you do at the school you’re at. Personally, I’d be a million times more miserable if I had to be strapped to that 100K+ debt. </p>
<p>It seems pretty general to be asking where people got in… it’s more relevant to ask a certain department where their students end up (or maybe try something like LinkedIn).</p>
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</p>
<p>
<a href="https://career.berkeley.edu/major/psych.stm%5B/url%5D">https://career.berkeley.edu/major/psych.stm</a></p>
<p>Results Summary
Graduated Responded Percent<br>
344 109 32% </p>
<p>Post-Graduate Activities</p>
<p>Employed Attending Grad School Seeking Employment Other Endeavors<br>
28% 15% 30% 27% </p>
<p>Employment Sectors & Average Salary*
For Profit Nonprofit Education Government Average Salary*
56% 13% 23% 8% $47,826
Almost 1/3 of those that responded were still seeking employment (fewer are actually employed than unemployed!). I imagine the number is actually higher than that, as there's probably some embarrassment factor to not having obtained a job that would reduce responses (similar to how salaries tend to be higher since higher earners are more likely to respond).
<br>
Loan Calculator</p>
<pre><code>Loan Balance: $128,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $128,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Enrollment Status: In Repayment
Degree Program: Bachelor's Degree
Total Years in College: 4 years
Average Debt per Year: $32,000.00
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,473.03
Number of Payments: 120
Cumulative Payments: $176,763.30
Total Interest Paid: $48,763.30
[/quote]
</code></pre>
<p>So let's do a little bit of quick math. Assume you pay roughly 20% taxes on your average income, and you have a take-home pay of $38k. Take away $1,473 a month for student loans and you have $20,584 to live off of. You're spending almost $18k a year for TEN YEARS to go to Berkeley. Think of what other fantastic things you could do with that money. You could buy a brand new Prius every 18 months. You could donate $100k to Greenpeace. TWICE. You could smoke 5 dimebags a day every day for 10 years instead of going to Berkeley. You might even be able to afford to shop at Whole Foods with the money you'd save.</p><p>Here is what I have to say about your situation or anyone a similar situation; wanting to pursue graduate studies (PhD) and undecided on undergraduate school X(ranked 1) vs school Y(ranked 10-50).</p>
<p>Berkeley is arguably the best in psych, not just top 10, but #1. I am not someone to care about rankings, but the difference you are talk about is the difference between “THE best school” and “a great school.” It’s like comparing a Ferrari to a BMW. Both schools will provide you with a great education, and as long as you do well in classes and gain the right experiences, you will go from point a to point b. But unlike a car, we can’t buy our way into the best universities, so having the opportunity to attend “THE best school” is priceless. So I suppose Berkeley would be more like a Ferrari Enzo.</p>
<p>Referring to terms like “Top” and “Best” may sound snobbish, but if you are serious about education, discovering new knowledge, joining the conversation, becoming a leader in the field, going to the best school and getting the best education you possibly can should be the most important factor. Like how Walt Disney sold all his belongings to ride first class to America, don’t settle for less. You got accepted into Berkeley, and if you want to continue to kick ass I believe the decision is a no brainier.</p>
<p>Money is a reality. Having massive debt is in no way pleasant. Paying for college is a risk. But people should not make decisions based solely on money or fear of debt. At the end, when you look back on your life, would you more likely regret not going to Berkeley or be glad you saved $200,000?</p>
<p>Yes, the other posters are correct, for graduate school, the name of your school is almost a no factor. Experience, letters, grades, and test scores are by far more important. Questions you need to ask yourself. Will you get the same opportunities to do research at UMinn than at UCB? Probably. Which school’s environment is more conducive to study and fun/exciting living? Hands down UCB.</p>
<p>Um, no, pumiliod, you’re being completely foolish. No university in the country is worth $130,000 in debt. My dad was a grad student at Cal and earned his doctorate there when I was a kid. Yes, Cal is great, if you can afford it. Borrowing enough money for a nice house to go there… that kind of debt is life-destroying.</p>
<p>One more thing to consider: that debt is going to be stuck in deferral for four or five years while you’re in graduate school - all the while accruing interest that will get rolled back into the loan and further increase your payments. You’d be lucky to pay them all off by the time you’re in your 40s.</p>
<p>Do you want to be paying for UC Berkeley when you’re 40 years old, blubbertop? That’s the question you need to ask yourself, because that’s the reality.</p>
<p>This is without even considering that you cannot borrow that much money. You can only borrow between $5,500 and $7,500 with Stafford federal loans. No bank will loan you $35,000 per year without a co-signer such as your parents, who agree to pay off the loans if you default. The loans go on their credit rating and if you start missing payments, the banks come after their assets. Are your parents willing to do that? If not, you can stop thinking about Cal right now, because you won’t have the money anyway.</p>
<p>@polarscribe, the totality of your statements are questionable, but i can understand your realistic narrow minded point. First of all, $130,000 is not life destroying. I know plenty of grads with $200,000+ debt and yes, they do have to make student loan payment, but their lives are not in shambles. Yes, their lives are “held back” according to your standard that life is all about buying a house. I do understand, that say you pay $130,000 for college and get nothing out of it, no job afterwards, no grad school prospects, no connections, no real skill learned, then absolutely that is a waste of money. personally, i think going to berkeley over UMinn is worth the money, plenty of people do it. you will come out a better student graduating from cal than uminn. i don’t know how you can justify living in a miserable location for the next 4 (if not the best) years of your life just to save some green.</p>
<p>I don’t like discussing money because it really should not affect your decisions. if you want to go somewhere and can, go. If money is the number one priority in life and it dictates your life decisions, you will most likely not get that far both career-wise and or ironically earning-power-wise. $130,000 does sound like a lot when you are 18-22 years old, but really it isn’t, especially in states like CA and in big cities. Remember, you are not getting the $130,000 in cash simply by going to UMinn. Also remember that in top grad programs in psych, tuition is waived and stipends are given (at cal 22k/year). And although extreme to some, there is the option of taking a year off after your first year and gaining CA residency to save on in-state tuition.</p>
<p>I don’t think you have any experience borrowing that much money, or what it means for one’s lifestyle. When you say “money should not affect your decisions,” it’s obvious that you have never actually had to manage money or live on a budget. Ergo, you’re speaking out of your ass.</p>
<p>The fact that grad programs waive tuition is irrelevant - no graduate program pays anywhere near enough to live <em>and</em> make loan payments on $130,000 in student loans. Therefore, it makes no difference - the loans will have to be deferred while one is in graduate school and the interest will pile up year after year.</p>
<p>My parents live in the San Francisco Bay Area, make more than $100,000 a year, pay a mortgage and own a $50,000 BMW. They have <em>never</em> been as much as $100,000 in debt - not now, not ever. So when you say “it’s not that much,” again, you’re talking out of your ass.</p>
<p>“You could buy a brand new Prius every 18 months. You could donate $100k to Greenpeace. TWICE. You could smoke 5 dimebags a day every day for 10 years instead of going to Berkeley. You might even be able to afford to shop at Whole Foods with the money you’d save.”</p>
<p>bwaahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaha</p>
<p>Go to Minnesota.
Get high grades in ALL classes, especially psych.
Get involved in research (if you’re looking into that side of psych).
Grad schools care about your undergrad… a little. As long as you have a high GPA, experience, and great rec letters you are fine. Go to Minnesota and save yourself debt. Yes, any grad program worth going to is going to be paid… But you won’t graduate from grad school with the 100k + debt looming over you. You’re only helping yourself. A degree is a degree.</p>
<p>Go to Minnesota.</p>
<p>Honestly reputation doesn’t matter that much. As long as it’s an R1 you’ll be fine.</p>
<p>@polarscribe, ha, congrats to your parents! i am sure the only way to make 100k+ and own a bmw is to never get into $100k debt. tell that to millions of college students and parents of college students taking out large loans to attend college, and to the millions of people that have a mortgage.</p>
<p>… it is hard to believe that your parents have a mortgage and not have ever been in debt 100k+ ;)</p>
<p>“Millions of college students” aren’t borrowing $130,000 in student loans for their bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>[Only</a> about 0.5 percent of all undergraduate students borrow as much as $100,000.](<a href=“The Secret $100,000 College Club No One Should Join | The Fiscal Times”>The Secret $100,000 College Club No One Should Join | The Fiscal Times)</p>
<p>Let’s keep in mind pumiliod seems to be a senior that’s currently undergoing applications to grad school and not a full fledged adult that’s been trying to pay off a massive amount of debt for the last 10 years.</p>
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<p>How did they manage to rack up that much debt? Do they have MDs or JDs by this point? Are you sure they aren’t just making interest payments at this point? Are they making somewhat close to what the average psych grad from Berkeley is?</p>
<p>If you have $200k in debt you’d be having monthly payments of $2300. That’s $27,600 a month (more than you’ll be making in grad school in the first place). Let’s say you make the average of $48k (of the 1/3 that actually landed a job!) and have a take-home of approximately $38k. That leaves you with $10,800 to live on. Let’s say you’re living in an apartment in Berkeley with a few friends and can get lucky enough to nab a room for $500 a month. That leaves $4,800. And you take the BART every day to get to/from work for, say, $2.50 total (which I think is an unreasonably low estimate). You now have roughly $4,000. Assume you spend $20 a week on groceries. Now you have $3,100. A cell phone is practically a necessity to get by as is internet at home. Let’s just say that costs $30 a month. Down to $2,750. You now have $230 a month for entertainment (dining out, movies, going out with friends, etc), clothes, medical expenses (whoops, forgot to even put in an estimate of medical insurance…), retirement, and pretty much everything you do in your daily life.</p>
<p>I’m sure owing $200k while making $48k isn’t a strain at all. :rolleyes:</p>
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<p>This all works out even better if you marry someone else with a similar debt.</p>