<p>"t's easier to achieve excellence at a school like MIT. It's like the difference between sitting in your house and deciding to start a diet and exercise plan and hiring a trainer and a nutritionist. Other people keep you accountable."</p>
<p>True, but you forget that there is, in my opinion, very little difference in the caliber of education of top 25 colleges overall, if you ignore the strengths in certain areas.</p>
<p>Also, what happens if you can't stand that trainer? =D</p>
<p>oh, in post #20, i should have said "got accepted to Harvard but turned it down for a state school"</p>
<p>^ Yea, some state schools are exceptional (i.e. Berekeley and UT Austin), but in most cases that would be dumb =/</p>
<p>Apparently not, since the restriction wasn't "a good state school" but "any state school". At least insofar as this econometric study revealed, the impotant thing is not going to a top-notch school, but being good enough to be accepted to a top-notch school.</p>
<p>See the working paper with a quite readable summary [url="<a href="http://www.nber.org/digest/dec99/w7322.html%22%5Dhere%5B/url">http://www.nber.org/digest/dec99/w7322.html"]here[/url</a>].</p>
<p>Everybody I've talked to that chose a top school (years beyond graduation from said school) has said they don't know if it actually paid off but they loved it there and wouldn't change that decision for anything. The ones who chose the lower school for money, in my experience, tend to say that if they had it to redo, they would have gone for the top school. I guess you're choosing a better practical solution but learning to live with the perpetual "what if?".</p>
<p>And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think:
Look into the pewter pot
To see the world as the world's not.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Apparently not, since the restriction wasn't "a good state school" but "any state school". At least insofar as this econometric study revealed, the impotant thing is not going to a top-notch school, but being good enough to be accepted to a top-notch school.
[/quote]
Oh, you're saying that because I appended "job" to my "grad school". Being the me that I am, I was only really thinking about grad school, which the Kreuger and Dale study wouldn't really cover. (I actually sometimes wonder how much the incresed proportion of academics who come out of elite schools brings down the average salary of elite school graduates -- I mean, I'm going to be making around 40k/year probably until I'm 40!)</p>
<p>As far as grad school goes, the only data I have is from my interviews this year, when about half the people being interviewed were from Ivy schools + MIT and most of the other half were people from other top 20 schools. There were a few people from lower-ranked schools, but they were quite few and far between. </p>
<p>Tis true, the stuff I bring for sale<br>
Is not so brisk a brew as ale:
Out of a stem that scored the hand<br>
I wrung it in a weary land.
But take it: if the smack is sour,<br>
The better for the embittered hour;
It should do good to heart and head
When your soul is in my souls stead.</p>
<p>Hi, Ben, I don't believe the Dale and Krueger for the conclusion for which it is most often cited. (Hint: think about what restriction of range problem is built into their study.) And even that study, itself, says that elite schools DO pay off economically for students from lower SES families.</p>
<p>Yeah, I know, it's questionable econometrics. On the other hand, I like the intuitive appeal of their main conclusion (given my observation of what people actually learn at elite schools -- which is to say, alarmingly little): the main bit is being good enough to get in.</p>
<p>I think it's true that going to an elite school gives you a moderate bump, but not the ENORMOUS one some people would like to think.</p>
<p>I think if you truly fell in love with MIT, you will find a way to pay for it. Look for scholarships, grants, loans, etc. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.fastweb.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.fastweb.com/</a></p>
<p>Money is really not an issue because you will find a way to pay for it if you're determined. </p>
<p>I had to decide between Caltech and University of Virginia (in-state/honors program). I picked UVa and absolutely regretted it. I've been miserable for the past four years. So this past summer, I discovered that if I don't study something that amazes me, at a place that I'm in love with, and with people who share my enthusiasm for similar passions, then I'll always remain miserable. </p>
<p>That's why I'm currently trying to transfer to Caltech even though I am a fourth year at UVa. I'm also looking for scholarships because no one will finance or support this crazy decision of mine except for me. </p>
<p>But I guess my point is: don't worry about money and try to find money at the same time. </p>
<p>If you can go to Olin/Case and not regret your decision for the next four years then your college experience will probably be a blast. If you think you'll end up regretting it, then go to MIT because regrets are dangerous and can't change anything.</p>
<p>
Out of curiosity, are you referring to the HYPS group, or are you including MIT and Caltech in that? Students at the latter two seem to me to learn alarmingly MUCH, not alarmingly little.</p>
<p>
My thoughts exactly! I'm much much much more afraid of regretting my decision than I am of ending up in a financially untenable position. I'm unhappy with my public high school in a similar way... I took the hardest classes offered and joined if not ran every club we had, but I was able to do so with very little effort, and it was difficult to push myself when I was already miles beyond any of my peers. I don't want to think the same of college. I very much hope you succeed in transferring or at least that you can get to "a school that amazes you" for grad work!!</p>
<p>Bingo. Public high school sucks. You don't learn anything. Every year feels like a waste of time.</p>
<p>I meant HYPS : ) [from direct observation, too].</p>
<p>Caltech and MIT exempt.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is my deep thought on the subject of MIT vs. schools with merit money. And this is the only thing I'm planning to say about it, and if anybody gets mad I'm going to pretend I never said it.</p>
<p>In an awesome poem, A. E. Housman wrote --</p>
<p>Quote:
Originally Posted by A.E. Housman
Therefore, since the world has still
Much good, but much less good than ill,
And while the sun and moon endure
Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
I'd face it as a wise man would,
And train for ill and not for good.</p>
<p>Sure, people pick lower-ranked schools which give a lot of merit money over highly-ranked schools every year. And some of them end up working really hard in undergrad and make good and end up in superb graduate programs and/or jobs. And most of them don't.</p>
<p>If somebody handed me a winning lottery ticket, I'd cash it in. I wouldn't wait for the next one.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Based on the poem, I thought your point was going to be to save the $200,000.00 for unexpected calamity.</p>
<p>so kcastelle, have u made your final decision? carnegie mellon is def pretty good.
I don't know how much "liking the school" is worth either, because it makes my choice a rational vs. emotional one. and if i've learned anything in HS, it's that I change my mind every 10 seconds and my feelings are fickle =P so I'm hesistant to trust that and make a decision "following my heart." esp since CPW is MIT selling itself to us, making it seem more fun than it is, haha. my friend visited a college last year, felt he absolutely belonged there, went, and this year, he hates it.</p>
<p>Actually, I've decided to drop everything and go visit CMU again tomorrow lol. I never gave it as much of a chance to "sell itself to me" as I did MIT because of CPW, so I'm going to do that and then... well, realistically I'll probably still be undecided. </p>
<p>Six more days to decide... <em>deep soothing breath</em></p>
<p>
[quote]
Based on the poem, I thought your point was going to be to save the $200,000.00 for unexpected calamity.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, Mollie's point was that you should give it to her : )</p>
<p>Hey, I take charitable donations. :D</p>
<p>I'm going to MIT>Berkeley (and paying extra too) because of two reasons
a) I like the MIT atmosphere much better.
b) I don't want to live with "I coulda gone to MIT..."</p>
<p>Let's consider this "hypothetical" situation:</p>
<p>Say that you're interested - like Mollie is - in an academic career. You're trying to choose between MIT and a school of lesser status that offered you a full-tuition scholarship. Say that your financial situation is such that you would have to accumulate at least $60-70k in debt (and most of this is bad, high-interest outside debt) to attend MIT. Now consider grad school, where this debt will lie threateningly, compounding upon itself and ballooning to $100k+.</p>
<p>Unless you're an incredible superstar, Mollie's estimate for academic earnings is quite reasonable - around $40k for many years. Six figures of high-interest debt are going to eat up a disgustingly large chunk of those earnings. In fact, your financial situation might be so spotty that you decide you have no choice but to abandon an academic career - with its attendant hazy prospects - and enter industry, where you can make far more.</p>
<p>Wouldn't that be sad?</p>
<p>But I think the alternative (choosing a crappy school for the merit money) also effectively closes you off from the academic career -- it makes it harder to get into a top-flight grad school, and from there a top-flight postdoc, and from there an academic position.</p>
<p>At least if you go to MIT, you have the option to chase the money trail and go into something ridiculously lucrative. (Or, in my case, you have the option to marry a brilliant MIT engineer who will. :D)</p>