How much is too much...?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Erm so, I always considered applying to a good few schools but it wasn't until today when I compiled a working list of schools that I realized just how many I'm looking at. To be specific, seventeen different schools.</p>

<ol>
<li> (I) University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
1950/28.7/4.47</li>
<li> (I) *Wake Forest
1330(2)/29/???</li>
<li> (I) *Duke University
2190/32/???</li>
<li> (O) *Johns Hopkins
2190/32/???</li>
<li> (O) *UPENN
2170/33/???</li>
<li> (O) *Cornell
???/???/???</li>
<li> (O) *Columbia
2210/33/???</li>
<li> (O) **Brown
2140/32/???</li>
<li> (O)<strong><em>MIT</em></strong>**
2200/33/???</li>
<li>(O) **CalTech
2250/34/???</li>
<li>(O) *U Chicago
1410(2)/31/???</li>
<li> (O) *Boston College
2064/???/???</li>
<li> (O) **NYU
1985/29/???</li>
<li> (O) *Rice University
2125/32/???</li>
<li> (O) **NC State
1740/26/???</li>
<li> (O) **Penn State – University Park
1785/???/???</li>
<li> (O) **Rutgers University
1790/???/???</li>
</ol>

<p>KEY:
***** = 1st choice
*** = Reach School
** = Match School
* = Safety School
(I) = Instate tuition available
(O) = Out of State tuition</p>

<h1>Scores: Average SAT/Average ACT/Average GPA</h1>

<p>A brief overview of stats
1310 (math + CR)/ 1880 (all 3) SAT
30 composite ACT (1st time taking it - did worse than I should have done - retaking in September)
214 PSAT Junior Year (I retook the SAT in June and I get the impression I did comparably to my PSAT results on this SAT, however the scores are not back yet).
GPA is good (though, not perfect), rank is good (rather not get into specifics), EC's are alright (though not great) when compared to others...</p>

<h2>TASS ('09) and SSP ('10) summer programs</h2>

<p>So... that's what it looks like (it's prettier on Microsoft word). My main concern at this point that there are quite a few schools. Also, it's evident that I've identified several reach schools, a few matches (some of which may be questionable)... and no real safeties I suppose.</p>

<p>This list is far from a concrete plan, but I plan on applying somewhat like this. Any advice, glaring issues, or other information is appreciated. Oh, and I hope to major in physics and have tried to look for the best programs in physics when selecting schools but I can't really say I did the best job at it.</p>

<p>Mainly I'm just worried about the volume of applications.</p>

2

<p>If cost is factor make sure your list includes a couple of financial safeties. (schools you like and can afford in case none of the others work out financially)</p>

<p>17 is a good STARTING point for your initial list, but it is an awfully high number - and about $1000 in application fees. </p>

<p>Are you planning on any tours this summer because I think it would help you narrow your focus. Also, what major are you considering?</p>

3

<p>I mentioned in the post (but it is a big mass of text so it was easy to miss it) that I wanted to apply to a program in Physics.</p>

<p>The money during the application process is indeed a concern. Application fees, sending test scores (SAT, ACT, SAT subject tests…) and so on will be very financially straining.</p>

<p>I haven’t been looking at tuition issues very much as I hope not to limit myself in that regard. Many of the schools on the list have special policies for students with family incomes like mine (no charge for tuition, no loan financial aid - grants and work study, etc) so assuming I get into one of the better end schools I’m not terribly worried about finances. But mainly, I’ve always dealt with the reality that I’d be graduating from college (and further education) in serious debt, but it’s always been an inevitability rather than any real surprise. So i can’t say I want to or even know how to put financial safeties on my list. If you had any suggestions I’d be very glad to hear them. Thank you very much so far :).</p>

4

<p>There is no such thing as “instate” tuition at schools like Duke, Wake, etc.</p>

<p>Privates charge the same instate or out-of-state (with very few exceptions).</p>

<p>The NMSF cutoff for NC was 214 last year. If it doesn’t change, you’ll make NMSF. :)</p>

<p>*The money during the application process is indeed a concern. Application fees, sending test scores (SAT, ACT, SAT subject tests…) and so on will be very financially straining.
*</p>

<p>This suggests money is a concern for you. If so, then take all the OOS publics off your list… Don’t apply to any OOS publics unless you qualify for assured merit scholarships.</p>

<p>Take NYU off - they give lousy aid and your stats won’t get a merit scholarship.</p>

<p>What are your financial safety schools? You need at least 2-3 schools that you can afford to go to either by paying out of pocket, with grants or with assured merit scholarships. </p>

<p>What is your EFC? How much will your parents pay each year? If you dont’ know an exact figure, ask them. Otherwise, this may be a huge waste of time. </p>

<p>FA Calc<br>
[FinAid</a> | Calculators | Expected Family Contribution (EFC) and Financial Aid](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Expected Family Contribution (EFC) Calculator - Finaid)</p>

<p>Do both the federal method and institutional. Many privates use the both methods. If there is a non-custodial parent, then their income (and step-parent incomes) might also be included at some schools.</p>

<p>BTW…an EFC is not the most you/your family will be expected to pay. Most schools do not meet need. Most schools “gap”. And…most OOS publics don’t help with high OOS costs - unless they award a merit scholarship for high stats.</p>

5

<p>There are fee waivers for applications and for submitting test results. I don’t know the criteria, but it might be worth looking into.</p>

<p>I don’t know if this fits your interest, but we just toured Dickinson College in Carlisle. PA and their brand new physics building is 100% to die for.</p>

<p>Have you run your parents financial numbers through the FAFSA calculator. It should give you a general idea on how much your family is expected to contribute.</p>

<p>For a “super strong match”, make sure you have schools where your stats are in the top 25%. One of the sites I like is college data. Just google college data and then the name of the school and it should take you right to the site. </p>

<p>I will let others more familiar with your list respond.</p>

6

<p>You classify Rutgers as a reach and Wake Forest as a match? I’d reverse those. You also didn’t indicate any school as a safety school. Did I miss it? You count UNC as in-state, but NC St as out of state? Huh? And, as stated, Wake and Duke don’t offer in-state tuition, although it is slightly easier to get into Duke in-state (but the cost is the same).</p>

<p>I’d agree with mom2collegekids and get rid of the OOS publics unless for some reason something really piques your interest. I’d keep NC St as my admission/financial safety, and it’s a reasonably good science/engineering school. I’d just make a pro/con list and give head-to-head matchups and ask yourself what you’d prefer. I think 17 is too many, but if you can afford it and handle the apps (most are common app anyways), then there is nothing WRONG with it. But if you can give a list of what you’re looking for in an institution, I think you could parse the list down to 9, with a breakdown of something like 4 reaches, 3 matches, and 2 safeties. That sounds more reasonable to me.</p>

7

<p>From what i can gather from the college board and my school - I will be offered 4 fee waivers For college applications, and the college board is offering 4 free score reports to schools of my choice having registered for the test with a fee waiver (not sure about the ACT).</p>

<p>I seem to have given off the wrong impression. I don’t mean to post to ask about money. I meant to ask about my college list being too long and how to narrow it, while still looking at realistic schools for the sake of actually attending a college once I graduate (I’m haunted by the thought of being rejected from 17 or so schools to find I need to “take a year off” or something to try for college again).</p>

<p>The reason I mentioned an in state/out of state status on my list is because of admissions, not financial aid. I’m worried about getting in more so than paying (though this may be somewhat unintelligent).</p>

<p>[@ mom2collegekids The NMSF has been alternating between 214 and 215 for the last 4 or 5 years now. If the pattern continues I may be out of luck :o.
Also, I should take NYU off? Is that only because of financial reasons or is there more to it? I mean thinking on it, if I get into another school thats more affordable and NYU accepts me only on the condition I pay full tuition, I’d probably turn NYU down.]</p>

<p>I have no intention of touring/visiting schools. I’m not very concerned about the “feel” of a university, what their dorms may be like, how their food is, etc. I only really care about the education/facilities - namely in physics where I hope to concentrate.</p>

<p>[@Kajon I’ve had a terrible time figuring out what to constitute as match, reach, and safety. So I should make sure my stats fall into the top 25% of a school before calling it a match? Thanks. That will very much help. I’ve only been going by vague intuition when categorizing, but an objective classifying tool should be very helpful]</p>

<p>I have not seen what my EFC is, I’ve tried to calculate it before but to no avail because my dad (who handles most of the finances, knows how much money really comes in, goes out, and gets saved) is usually very busy at work or too exhausted after work to be bothered. I’ll ask him when he has a free day. Though I’m not sure how much the number value will help me. Getting an idea will be fun I guess, but it’s too late to start saving franticly for college or much of anything so knowing in advance doesn’t have too much of a tangible benefit from what I can tell, but I’ll definitely look into it again.</p>

<p>My parents are very, very supportive of me getting a good education. They’d sell the car if it meant being able to pay off more and such. Essentially what I mean to say is that they won’t limit my choices to the cheapest options and are 100% willing to put what they can (financially) into my education, though I’ve know for some time that “what they can” won’t be very much.</p>

<p>But I really didn’t mean this to be a question for advice on finances. I mainly just hoped for help in compiling a list of colleges to apply to solely on the view of academics and ability to be accepted. But maybe I shouldn’t be only looking at those things, so who knows?</p>

<p>[@bluedog Wow, yeah when copying my list over I made a few mistakes. NC state is indeed in state for me. Rutgers was meant to be listed as a match, as well as Wake forest, but these categorizations were just on a basis of intuition, nothing at all concrete. I did indeed list the in state status of Duke and Wake for the sake of admissions, not tuition. While tuition is an aspect I’m considering, it is not the focus if my concerns at this time. And you also think I should drop like Rutgers, Penn State, and NYU? If people think so I guess I should. I only included them because I felt my list was far too reach-heavy.]</p>

8

<p>I have not seen what my EFC is, I’ve tried to calculate it before but to no avail because my dad (who handles most of the finances, knows how much money really comes in, goes out, and gets saved) is usually very busy at work or too exhausted after work to be bothered. I’ll ask him when he has a free day. Though I’m not sure how much the number value will help me. Getting an idea will be fun I guess, but it’s too late to start saving franticly for college or much of anything so knowing in advance doesn’t have too much of a tangible benefit from what I can tell, but I’ll definitely look into it again.</p>

<p>Why do you think that you would get fee waivers for college apps? Those are for low income people only. It doesn’t sound like your family is low income.</p>

<p>*
But I really didn’t mean this to be a question for advice on finances.*</p>

<p>You may not have intended this to be about finances, but when parents can’t pay $50k+ per year for college costs, then it’s really silly not to consider what will be financially do-able when compiling a list. “Selling a car” doesn’t provide $200k for private school education. </p>

<p>What’s the point of creating a list if the list is not do-able? You could end up with a bunch of acceptances without a way to pay. There isn’t time next spring to do a “do-over” because you’ve applied to the wrong schools.</p>

<p>Do this is the right order. </p>

<p>Talk to your parents about how much they will pay each year. </p>

<p>Find out your EFC (both institutional and federal). Again, that’s not the most your family will have to pay…most schools cannot meet need.</p>

<p>Once you have the right info, then a proper list can be formed.</p>

<p>Though I’m not sure how much the number value will help me. Getting an idea will be fun I guess, **but it’s too late to start saving franticly for college or much of anything so knowing in advance doesn’t have too much of a tangible benefit **from what I can tell, but I’ll definitely look into it again.</p>

<p>You could not be more wrong. Knowing this info in advance has many tangible benefits. What is the benefit of NOT KNOWING? Do you think it will be “loads of fun” to spend hours and hours on applications only to have a pile of acceptances of schools that you can’t pay for???</p>

9

<p>Mainly what I’m looking for in a college is:</p>

<p>Academics. I want to major in Physics and I want to attend a good school for that. Ideally I hope to get an undergrad in physics, go into either med school or a masters in physics and becomes a doctor or then pursue a PhD and research position in Physics (some subfield that I’m not going to pretend I’ve decided on).</p>

<p>Faculty, facilities, and opportunities for research are all also very important in that regard so I’m hoping to look at the overall quality of academics at a given school.</p>

<p>Tuition’s important but not my main focus.</p>

10

<p>

</p>

<p>You have many fine schools on your list. In fact, they’re so fine that the vast majority could probably meet your expecations for education/facilities. If you really want to shorten your list, you can use what you see on visits as the tiebreaker between great schools. </p>

<p>For example, on paper, Wake Forest and U of Richmond looked nearly identical to my son. He visited both and ended up hating UR, but loving WF. </p>

<p>Your college education is probably going to cost more than the first house your parents bought. Ask them if they would have gone through with the deal based on what the photos and brochures told them. I doubt it. When you’re spending that kind of money you need to SEE what you’re getting.</p>

11

<p>*
Tuition’s important but not my main focus. *</p>

<p>LOL</p>

<p>Mainly what I’m looking for in a new home is:</p>

<p>I want a big home and live in a good neighborhood.</p>

<p>Cost of the home is important, but not my main focus.</p>

<p>;)</p>

<p>Moondragon… Paying for college is important. Don’t fool yourself.</p>

12

<p>* just reposting this in a new post instead of having edited a previous one:*</p>

<p>Um, well I’ve spoken to my school and looked at the collegeboard website and according to that I should qualify for four application fee waivers. Of course I have to resubmit my family income information and stuff for senior year, but I’ve been told I would qualify if there are no changes. Unless I misunderstood something.</p>

<p>Erm, the selling a car thing was only intended to be an example of dedication or something. Not sure it was the best example but I don’t actually believe I could get off scott free by liquidating some assets or something. I know college is expensive. I know affording school is a big deal. But, I was under the impression that, if I chose to, I could go into this process without limiting my options on the basis of cost. Is that really so radically idiotic of an idea?</p>

<p>I have for some time been under the impression that I would NEED to take out large sums in loans to afford an education. I would not be surprised if graduated school 60,000+ in debt and only to add onto that debt going into med school or a graduate program.</p>

<p>As such, I’m not blown away by the fact that those things I’ve accepted as inevitable are… likely inevitable. The financial “do-ability” of my list isn’t a major concern of mine. </p>

<p>Of course, the fact that this aspect is being stressed so much is making me have doubts, but I’m not entirely convinced I suppose.</p>

13

<p>well I’ve spoken to my school and looked at the collegeboard website and according to that I should qualify for four application fee waivers. Of course I have to resubmit my family income information and stuff for senior year, but I’ve been told I would qualify if there are no changes. Unless I misunderstood something.</p>

<p>How would you know this since you’ve already said that you don’t know how much your family earns? App fee waivers are for low-income.</p>

<p>I have for some time been under the impression that I would NEED to take out large sums in loans to afford an education. I would not be surprised if graduated school 60,000+ in debt and only to add onto that debt going into med school or a graduate program.</p>

<p>Well…YOU…cannot borrow that much. YOU can only borrow about the following amounts…$5500 for frosh, $6500 for soph, 7500 for junior year, 7500 for senior year.</p>

<p>And…$60k in undergrad debt comes to $15k per year. How is the other $35k per year getting paid? </p>

<p>You’d need your PARENTS to help with any more loans that you’d need. And, if they are low-income (and qualifying for app fee waivers), then how would they qualify for such loans???</p>

<p>You will run out of borrowing power for federal student loans for med school if you borrow too much for undergrad. The max you can borrow (for undergrad + med school) is $224K. COA for Med school takes about all of that - all by itself.</p>

<p>But, I was under the impression that, if I chose to, I could go into this process without limiting my options on the basis of cost. Is that really so radically idiotic of an idea?</p>

<p>Not idiotic…just terribly naive. </p>

<p>you’re also very naive about how you will be able to afford these large debts after graduation. Young doctors don’t make that much. Just with $224k in debt, your monthly payments will be about $2600 per month for ten years. For a young doctor, that will be a struggle. And if you need to borrow more, you may find yourself drowning in debt.</p>

14

<p>As for the house metaphor, I must admit, I never looked at this that way.</p>

<p>I guess the biggest thing is the competition aspect for getting into college. The last 6 or 7 years of my life have been shadowed by the fact that I’d be going to college soon. Many of my actions have been vastly affected by it. The way I spend my time, who I associate with (outside of friends), and so on has been vastly skewed. It’s a frightening process to even get accepted into college and that is the main driving force when looking at this whole process.</p>

<p>If I were to rank my factors for looking at colleges it would be:

  1. Quality of Academics
  2. Cost</p>

<p>If I were to rank my factors for looking for a house to buy it would be:

  1. Cost
  2. Quality of the house.</p>

<p>That these are reversed is because, to buy a house, you don’t have to (in most cases) impress the owner with your varied, well rounded quality as a home owner. You don’t have to prove your intelligence, your character, your amazingness. You don’t have to be chosen as worthy of owning that specific house. You just need to pay up.</p>

<p>But with colleges - most are extremely expensive. This isn’t likely to change based on the quality of education or the difficulty of attendance. Cost is somewhat independent (though it does indeed vary). But the education is often very reflective of how difficult it is to be admitted to that school. The top schools are the hardest to get into and when I’m fighting tooth and nail for a chance to be accepted into one in a collection of “holy grail” schools - I’m focused on what it is I’m fighting for. Education. The fact that I’m forced to go out of my way – miles out of my way, just to get into one of these institutions, makes the object that I’m fighting for that much more valuable to me. The way I see it, I’m fighting for a good quality of education and if I by some stroke of luck manage to win, I’m not going to be eyeing the price tag, I’m going to be taking the spoils of victory.</p>

<p>Yes there are plenty of implications of college attendance. The cost to my money at this moment and what money I may earn in the future (due to loans I may take out), the location I’ll be spending the next four years of my limited life, the “connections” I’m able to make at a given place, the people I’m going to meet, the ways in which I’m going to grow personally, they’re all things that go along with and must be considered when attending a college. But none of them have been able to force the “quality of education” factor out from under the spotlight in my eyes. </p>

<p>I guess my parents (though they have been pretty hands off during this whole process) see this whole thing from a different perspective. They are tasked with supporting the student, paying (in part) for the education, and dealing with all that comes with a child attending college. But my perspective sees a different picture and I’m afraid I’m finding it difficult to put as much emphasis on cost as I may be asked to.</p>

<p>Edit: My responses end up being far too late to be very effective. Just know I am reading and responding to each comment though, it may be taking a while :.</p>

15

<p>But with colleges - most are extremely expensive. This isn’t likely to change based on the quality of education or the difficulty of attendance.</p>

<p>that’s where you’re mistaken. And, that’s why I’m trying so hard to redirect your thinking. Do you think I’m just doing this to be difficult? LOL… No, dear, I’m doing this because you’re a bright student who could easily make some bad decisions out of naivete. </p>

<p>No, it’s not true that all schools are expensive (or similarly priced). </p>

<p>It sounds like your goal is to be a physician. Good for you. But, you don’t have to spend $200k for undergrad for that goal. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>You may be wrongly thinking that you have to go to some top, top college to get into a good med school. That is sooooooo not true. </p>

<p>You have awesome state schools within your own state that are VERY affordable. Your stats would also get you some good merit at some other good schools. </p>

<p>However, if your family is lowish-income/low assets (your info so far has been confusing) then you could get great aid at some schools. However, you’ve made other statements that suggest that they aren’t low income. So, you could get accepted, but then have an unaffordable family contribution.</p>

<p>Please, when your parents are home, have a nice little talk with them. Find out how much they can contribute each year (not just the first year…but for 4 straight years). </p>

<p>Ask your dad to put in the info to figure out an approx EFC (the numbers don’t have to be perfect…if he can estimate that will probably give a good idea.)</p>

16

<p>App fee waivers are limited to how low income exactly? I mean, we don’t get food stamps or anything, but I spoke to my school, had my parents speak to my school, and I was able to receive fee waivers to SAT and ACT testing. I think asked about applications and I recall the counselor saying I could receive four during my senior year. I don’t personally know my exact family income, but my school does.</p>

<p>A lot of the rest addressed in your post… I can’t say I can respond very confidently to. I was under the impression that government loans (Stafford and Plus are two I’m semi-familiar with, but I understand there is a LOT that goes into the specifics of such loans - much of which I’m not an expert on) would be able to cover much of it, something I would be able to take on through my parents as well as myself.</p>

<p>And I was counting on some aid to come through as well. Even if schools weren’t able to meet 100% of demonstrated need, I expected that some would be provided for, even if that came in the form of loans. From what I’ve seen (though I can’t say I’m very knowledgeable on this) government loans, and caps on those loans, are independent of loans offered by the school as a part of financial aid.</p>

<p>I’ve never really been uncertain about my ability to pay for the cost of school, I have just been worried that much of those payments would be in loans. Which would follow me for much time to come. Are you actually saying there is a strong chance that I won’t be able to pay for a college - at all? As in the amount their charging me can not be met regardless of the source from which I try to scrounge money from (being grants, scholarships, loans) and I’ll be forced to go to the mob or something for money - or, more realistically, simply not go to a school for the sole reason that there would be no possible way to meet the cost? Honestly I can’t say I know for sure and you do seem to be much more knowledgeable in this, but it really never has been proposed that i would be flat out unable to meet the cost no matter what.</p>

<p>As for after all education is said and done and I’m in the work force and I’m expected to pay back everything I’ve borrowed? Yes, I’m scared. But that’s all been a part of the inevitability. I’ve always looked upon those first (several) years after graduation to be very difficult ones, but ones I… naively now that you say it, was sure I could pull through, by sheer force of will if nothing else.</p>

17

<p>You might want to look at these sites to see some alternatives:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html?highlight=guaranteed[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html?highlight=guaranteed&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html?highlight=national+merit[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html?highlight=national+merit&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

18

<p>I understand you’re not trying to be difficult. Nowhere in your responses have you come off as just trying to disagree with or aggravate me or something. I really do appreciate your advice (though I may be having difficulty coming to grasps with it), and the very fact that you’re even taking your time to respond is something I’m quite thankful for. It’s just that your spouting some pretty dangerous ideas (and the sheriff in my head doesn’t take kindly to such things 'round these parts).</p>

<p>As for my family income - from what I can tell we are “lower-middle class”. Free lunch (they actually changed their cut offs for free lunch and I now only qualify for “reduced cost” lunch but it’s not a huge deal), SAT/ACT fee waivers, um… stuff like that I guess. My mom doesn’t work so it’s on one source of income, so that’s about it…</p>

<p>As for my future, honestly I’m not sure what my career goal is concretely. Physics is an academic passion of mine and I hoped to pursue that with all I could. Though I have an attraction to medicine as well for when I grow up. I have not decided on whether to go forward with med school or to pursue a PhD in physics, but I hope that will clear up as I approach the time when I’ll have to make that decision (I’ll have more exposure to both fields by then).</p>

<p>The cautionary tale you seem to be conveying is indeed frightening. Does “my list” as it stands leave me open to such a trap of financial difficulty? If so, what other (schools) should I look into that would be more manageable? And is there a way to balance quality against cost in schools? With houses it’s a fairly simple idea to balance the cost against quality/locations to find the best value, but where could I look to find a good physics degree while avoiding the chance of dooming my future financial freedom?</p>

<p>[@Erin’s Dad I have looked at both of those threads in the past when looking into financial aid. I’m just not sure what schools to look at from there. In terms of physics, there are a limited few schools I’ve heard of that are good for it, and they don’t seem to be represented there. Am I really supposed to just blindly choose a school or three that will give me merit aid enough so that I can afford it, regardless of the programs at that school?]</p>

19

<p>*A lot of the rest addressed in your post… I can’t say I can respond very confidently to. I was under the impression that government loans (Stafford and Plus are two I’m semi-familiar with, but I understand there is a LOT that goes into the specifics of such loans - much of which I’m not an expert on) would be able to cover much of it, something I would be able to take on through my parents as well as myself.</p>

<p>And I was counting on some aid to come through as well. Even if schools weren’t able to meet 100% of demonstrated need, I expected that some would be provided for, even if that came in the form of loans. *</p>

<p>See, the problem is when you don’t know specifics, it’s hard to make informed decisions.</p>

<p>On one hand, you’re now saying that your family’s income is low enough for reduced lunch. That suggests a lowish income.</p>

<p>On the other hand, you’re talking about big loans - which would require your parents’ co-signing or taking out Plus loans. How will lowish income people qualify for these loans? </p>

<p>I was under the impression that government loans (Stafford and Plus are two I’m semi-familiar with, but I understand there is a LOT that goes into the specifics of such loans - much of which I’m not an expert on) would be able to cover much of it, something I would be able to take on through my parents as well as myself.</p>

<p>Stafford loans are limited to the amounts that I mentioned above. As for Plus loans…you need to talk to your parents about those. Many, many parents won’t do those (because THEY are responsible for paying them back) and many parents can’t qualify for them year after year (some parents qualify the first year, but then don’t qualify for years 2, 3, and 4. These loans accrue interest while you’re in school. </p>

<p>There aren’t just a few schools that are good in Physics. Certainly there must be at least one NC school that has a good program…isn’t there? </p>

<p>*The cautionary tale you seem to be conveying is indeed frightening. Does “my list” as it stands leave me open to such a trap of financial difficulty? If so, what other (schools) should I look into that would be more manageable? *</p>

<p>I’ve been on this forum for a long time (my start date does not reflect when I really joined). EVERY year we hear some students refusing to consider finances when compiling their lists. Then, spring arrives, and then we hear the tales of woe from students who now have been accepted to their schools, but have no way to pay for them. </p>

<p>Lowish income students need a strategy. You need to apply to reach schools that YOU KNOW would meet “determined need” without big loans. And, you need to apply to your state schools as financial matches (since your state gives good aid). And, you need to apply to some schools that will give you BIG MERIT for stats for your financial safeties. </p>

<p>So, take NYU, Penn St, Rutgers, and (maybe) BC…since those schools aren’t going to help you pay for your education.</p>

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<p>moondragonx - I think I used the term “super match” when I suggested you look for schools where you fall into the upper 25% of the stats. I admit to making up the term, but some of the schools you are interested in have very low admission rates and I think it would put you at an advantage if you were in the top 25%. Top schools are a reach for everyone.</p>

<p>The other posters are correct in having you discuss $$$ with your parents. This can be difficult because many parents either are not ready to think about finances or are unwilling to share the information. Your conversation should go something like this:</p>

<p>“Mom and dad I am starting to make my college lists. I really need to know how much per year or total that you guys are willing or able to put toward my education. If the answer is zero then I need to know that too. There is an FASFA form that all parents have to fill out and for now we can just use last years tax info, but it will help us plan for college because it gives us an estimate on how much we are expected to contribute each year. It only takes a few minutes to do and you can set up a password so I can only see the final number and not your personal data”</p>

<p>Keep in mind that if the EFC # comes back that your parents should be able to contribute X # of dollars, this doesn’t mean they have to or maybe other circumstances will prevent them from doing so. Colleges will not give you more $$ if your parents are unwilling/unable to come up with their EFC contribution.</p>

<p>Finances are a very critical part of your selection equation and the subject can be very uncomfortable for parents and very frustrating for kids.</p>