@itsgettingreal17 that motivation depends on the student and while I was a motivated student at that age too, I readily admit that when the going got tough and I was having my moments of wondering if I really wanted to finish, knowing I would have loans in MY name and not the education (completed degree) was a factor in keeping me on the right track. A totally unmotivated student won’t be swayed by this I understand but it it a bit of a shove for those that are wavering a tad.
When I used to work closer with programmers, I used to have few who were very serious musicians. I remember one was a violinist, a singer, and a drummer. They would ask me for time off to rehearse or a tour (few weeks). They made good money at their day jobs to support their passions.
Both my sons took out Stafford loans ($24k) and worked PT/summers to cover books/expenses. They knew this by 9th grade, so no surprises. In return, they could pick the school of their choice. Had they taken the big merit package, the loans would have been smaller, and we may have offered to help with a down payment on a car or some grad school expenses.
We can’t tell you what to do, but maybe the variety of responses will help you craft a philosophy that works for your budget and finances.
We repeated to the kids what my parents had told me when I was about to enter college: “We’re not rich. We can’t promise you an inheritance. But we CAN make sure you get an outstanding college education.”
We told the kids that we wanted them to work during summers to cover incidentals, local travel, and entertainment while at college. This was enough for them to feel some obligation to contribute (and kept them busy during summers). But we did not believe in saddling them with long-term debt to cover the basic costs of college. Nor did we ourselves incur debt while the kids were in college. We cut down our spending, though, including holding onto older cars for extra years. We stayed in our “starter house” (same house we’ve lived in for 40 years).
We had saved and invested for many years so that our kids could attend any college they were admitted to. We (and they) also benefited from the fact that my parents came through again and sent the kids some federal savings bonds that covered about 25% of basic costs of our kids’ college. My father was an aeronautical engineer, my mother was a homemaker. They weren’t big spenders, but they were big savers, and the deal they gave to our 2 kids was the same that they gave to all of their 12 grandchildren. (This was in the years before tax deferred college savings plans existed.)
Every family is different. Neither of my kids take/will take out loans. But, if we could not afford to pay our portion of the bill, I think we would have the student take out any subsidized loan offered and then pay it off when they graduate. It sounds like your D wants to be a musician. My H graduated from Berklee and I understand the struggle most musicians face after graduating. I suggest limiting the amount of loans you expect your D to be responsible for. In addition, I am not a big fan of having skin in the game. I do not think most students understand exactly what this means and how it will effect their lifestyle after graduating.
I really enjoyed reading all the responses.Trust me, I wish we were better prepared and I admire all of you who saved and planned better. But it is what it is and I want to make the best choices going forward. I don’t feel as guilty about requiring her to take out government loans and also feel comfortable contributing as much as possible, even if that means taking some reasonable low-interest parent loans. I will keep in mind those “unexpected” setbacks, including potential struggles in the job market post-graduation. I think being prepared for the worst case scenario is a necessary starting point.
I appreciate the honest, straight-forward responses that were not sugar-coated. I can see where parents can get in over their heads with loans so this made me pause and take a look at where our realistic, responsible cap is. I’ve been in a good job over 25 years and can retire in 7 years with pretty good benefits. My husband is self-employed but has some good investments and we both have retirement accounts/TSA’s. I think we will be ok, but I certainly don’t want to reduce my quality of retirement with poor decisions at this point!
My daughter has a friend who is going to a very prestigious, expensive college for musical theatre. The college only gave them $1000 in aide (yes you read that right!) He was offered almost a full scholarship at another university but insisted on the big name school and his parents accommodated. Although they are fairly stable financially, I know this required hefty loans. I suppose some can rationalize such a choice but we made it clear that we will be making a WISE and very personal decision based on quality of the program and what we can afford. She is totally on board with that and is very open-minded about all the colleges on her list.
@mamom I see it as my job as a parent to help them to understand which is part of the reason I set financial limits on their college and won’t co-sign loans for them outside of the GSL (which is a reasonable total for most college grads who make a reasonable effort to find gainful employment) - skin in the game doesn’t have to mean just let them take out whatever – fortunately they cannot without a co-signature. My refusal to do that is for their goods as well as my own.
@toomanyteens yes, those loans can be a motivator to stay in school. But, then again it’s best to have kids avoid any or too much college debt if at all possible. If my kid was totally unmotivated, we would probably look into alternatives for college or at least have them live at home and do community college…
My child is not totally unmotivated, nor is he the overachieving student that most on this site seem to be. He is very average and is focused enough to know that a good education is what is needed but distracted enough to want to enjoy all the social aspects of college.
That is certainly not enough of a reason to look at other options but his love of his social life also makes it a reason for him to have “some skin in the game”.
He will graduate with about $25,000 in loans. He already has a great job lined up and this loan is reasonable for him. I am also offering to him,if he pays more than the minimum on his loan, I will match the amount over the minimum. I’m hoping that will keep him focused on getting the loan paid sooner rather than later.
@bhs1978 It really depends on the kid and the family. We didn’t want to saddle our kids with unnecessary debt. Our kids were average too… We never have had to worry much about socializing too much because neither kid is a huge party animal and they do a good job of balancing school and social life…
We also made it clear that you go to college to get a degree, not to party. Studying comes first, socializing comes second. I’m not saying either approach is good or bad, every family and kid is different and every bank account is different too. You gotta do what works best for your family and situation!
Congrats to your child on their job!
@natty1988 I agree but I am not really talking about a totally unmotivated student in my comments and honestly with 5 kids, we didn’t have a lot of choices anyway - we cannot really pony up that much money times 5 with retirement on our heels.
@toomanyteens right, I just kind of meant in general. The main problem is why is college so expensive, but that’s another topic for another day
@AmyIzzy These decisions are some of the hardest to make and when you involve an 18 year old it just makes it harder. My D19 has one offer where the COA would be $13K a year and she is a finalist to make the COA drop to $0. Then she has another offer where the COA would be $17-18K. But lastly her #1 public school choice is a COA of $28K. We are waiting on some privates to let us know her situation and she is a finalist at a school to make the COA be about $16K a year. That school is in her top 4 for sure.
The odd thing I am hearing from my D19 is she wants an urban campus. I just don’t get it. To do the fun stuff in urban cities usually cost $$$ especially plays and musicals. Eating out is more expensive. I keep thinking when you are on a college campus with 7-20K students the party is on campus or just off campus at houses and stuff. Why do you need this urban stuff to have fun. This urban idea is coming up with some of her friends and a co-worker’s daughter as well. My wife was talking to another Mom and her set of twins turned their nose up at Miami OH because they felt like it was in the middle of nowhere. First they didn’t realize Cincinnati was close, but Miami has like 18K students there has to be stuff to do on campus.
@gpo613 One of ours was all like that at first too about the urban campus - NYC no less, Queens I think, I tried to explain that first of all it can take 45 minutes on the subway to get to mid town, and how much spending money did she think she would have as a student to partake of anything really in NYC!
@natty1988 - our kids are all going to places where net out of pocket for us (after their GSLs) is around 10-12k per year with room and board and my ex thought that was outrageous – can you tell that he wasn’t the one trying to figure out affordable decent colleges?
@gpo613 Haha. My daughter is the same way and I agree that the costs should sway her in another direction! Her wish list includes:
-Small to medium music program
-urban setting
-social justice focus on campus/progressive artsy vibe
-diverse student body
-good study abroad and internship options
-opportunities to gig/connections
I did notice that some urban settings are less costly than others. For example, Chicago seems to have a lower cost of living than NYC and Boston. So maybe one of her Chicago schools will be a good option. She has many friends who attend college in NYC and they are always complaining about cost of living. Even getting an apartment with 4 students is expensive! We have a great state school about an hour away that is a very reputable music college which is “in the middle of nowhere” but it definitely has a busy, active campus and lots for students to do! She did love the vibe there but they didn’t have the major she is interested in. I just keep telling her to keep an open mind!
@AmyIzzy We are out in the Chicago burbs. My D19 is looking at a school in Chicago. Right now just not a cheap COA. It might change. I don’t find Chicago all that cheap on the few occasions I go downtown. You can do some cheap stuff, but most cost $$$. I am sure NYC is worse.
Overall it was a curveball my D19 threw at me because when I was thinking about colleges for myself urban setting never crossed my mind.
@gpo613 I am in the Boston area and my D and S both attended private high school in Boston. Heck, I want to live in BOston when I retire. Even HS kids can spend a lot of money in the city, I am sure college kids can spend even more. No one wants to be the “poor kid”. I think it is wise to let kids considering an urban school about those costs.
@toomanyteens My D was a recruited athlete who wanted to attend D3 and had to apply ED to do so. I warned my H at least a year in advance to not expect much merit (we would not get FA). I warned him multiple times. As an athlete applying ED, the school knows you are going to attend there is no incentive to throw merit at you. My S got full tuition as merit a few years previous so H was spoiled. When D’s acceptance letter came my H was bewildered and could not understand the lack of merit. He just did not want to believe it.
My kids did urban- and if you’ve grown up being thrifty that doesn’t need to change in college. You can usher at the symphony, plays,concerts, i.e. see everything for free. You can work a few catering gigs on weekends (both on and off campus) and get TWO free meals, sometimes done by famous chefs- both the staff meal prior to the event AND the leftover meal. You will likely get a student discount pass during Freshman week which includes free museum admissions, free event admissions, and in some cities- a subsidized pass for Mass transit. And most colleges run their own minivan service around campus and the surrounding city- free with student ID. Goodwill in a big city will have cheap tuxedos and formalwear. Public libraries in major cities will have cool exhibits and events- usually free- and often famous speakers/symposium/lectures on weekends. One of my kids made a habit of book signings-- no need to buy the book, just show up at one of the big bookstores downtown and meet your favorite authors, usually free food as well.
Yes, you can spend $100 every weekend night on sushi and expensive clubs, or you can do the free campus stuff PLUS enjoy city life if you are careful (and need to be careful) with money.