Living off campus after freshman year can often reduce expenses. A shared apartment and no meal plan are generally cheaper especially for a girl eating less. Learning to cook, pay rent, utilities and manage time are all part of the learning experience.
We pay rent, tuition and transportation on breaks. It is wonderful to see our children select roommates that also cook and manage their summer internship and paid research job money at school.
If the lowest net cost so far requires a ~$5500/year loan for her and ~$9k/year parent loan for you it sounds unaffordable. Will you offer your son the same deal? He may say he’s okay with commuting to the local state school now, but in 4 years he may decide that if his sister had the opportunity to attend a residential college then he’d like the same option. By then costs will be much higher and if you’re already carrying ~$40k in parent loans you find it difficult to qualify for more.
Applying for outside scholarships can be helpful, but some schools will just reduce the aid they offer by the amount of the outside scholarship. Check the schools’ policies to see if they stack aid.
Ok, different approach, not what should be done but what have people done. Ok, so here’s one that’s been alluded to:
Do you believe in the philosophy of bloom where you’re planted? If so, one strategy alluded to is very simply to look at schools that cost less. What do you think the music program does for its grads? What skills does the student acquire?Can that be done anywhere else? You’ve said there are affordable options? Take one of those and dismiss the dream schools because you think they might be in a better location for “opportunities” in the field.
My own kid, who is not a music major, went to a “lesser” (to use cc parlance) LAC (one that I have never seen mentioned here) in rural area, and still wound up with great internships and a top job that is supposedly more difficult to land than a spot a Harvard (if you search how to get hired at X, you’ll find pages or forums and tons of articles with advice). Why? Followed the money. And stacking of outside scholarships was allowed. Nice. Friend of hers, same school, rural nowhere, is now at a top 20 program studying opera. What I’m saying is those affordable options are the ones to consider. That’s a strategy you might consider for reducing debt.
It is harder to find a good fit with music, especially since auditions are involved and a financial safety might not be an admissions safety. Our family is in the middle of that stress with our son, but we didn’t let him apply anywhere that didn’t have a realistic chance of being affordable with academic and/or music merit.
As far as skin in the game, we considered maintaining the GPA required to keep academic scholarships to be enough skin in the game for our two older kids. They each had to maintain above 3.0 at the school’s they chose, and losing the scholarship would have meant transferring to our local U and living at home to finish college. We were clear about this with them. We also expect our kids to pay for their own fun. We pay for needs (books, toothpaste, shampoo, basic groceries) and they pay for wants—pizza with friends, gas for the car, movies, spring break trips anywhere other than home, a new outfit, etc. it’s worked fine with the first two kids.
It was really important to us to get our kids through college without debt for them or us. Both of them, have thanked us as they’ve come to the end of their college experiences and begun to understand what difference that makes and the freedom it has given them,
We also dealt with a unexpected job loss during the college years for kid 2. Plan for the uneexpected—we were super glad we had done that and the employment situation didn’t affect our D’s college experience.
It’s also true that they can bloom where they’re planted—my older kids followed the scholarship money to schools that seldom get mentioned on cc. They had tons of opportunities. One has graduated into an excellent job in her field, and the other graduates in May with a dream job in her field lined up,
It sounds like your D is set up to make a way for herself wherever she lands, OP, Good luck with a decision when the time comes.
@austinmshauri The average student loan debt today is about $30K and for parents it’s about $32,000 so I am guessing I am not the only one with a student taking max Federal loans each year or the only parent who would be borrowing up to $9K per year. Is it ideal? No. We plan on downsizing in about 4-5 years and we have a nice home with many years under our belt so I’m guessing we will be able to pay back the loans in full (as long as we keep in that $9K range) once we move, well ahead of the 10 year allowance. We just don’t have the extra money at the moment.
We actually chose every college with our budget in mind. I researched colleges with her major of interest known to give high scholarships (academic and talent) and grants and she put those at the top of the list. We threw in a state school. I allowed her to apply to Berklee and 2 other “financial reach” schools because they have been known to give very generous talent scholarships to SOME students. She understood that if she did not get a scholarship in a certain range at those schools, that school would be off the table. I agree that students do not need “big name” schools to be successful and, in fact, some of the lesser known schools can be a better investment in many cases. For example, one school she is gravitating towards has a very reputable program but is really under the radar and considered a “hidden gem.” The stats show that most of their internships lead to good jobs and student are making good money 3-5 years after graduation. It’s small so the individual attention is a plus, there are many ensemble opportunities and they would even let her become involved with the musical theatre productions even if she isn’t majoring in musical theatre. They have great study abroad opportunities which is important to her. It happens to be our lowest cost option at the moment (about $19K including room and board.) It is also the closest to home (4 hours by car) so that is a positive to me.
So I hope I didn’t leave the impression I was allowing her to apply to schools like NYU or USC which are over $60K per year and known to give little money. We were realistic in our search and her current options. I was just curious of other opinions in terms of how much students pay and the rationale for different decisions out there. In my opinion, there is no wrong answer and I have enjoyed reading about all the unique set-ups and philosophies. It is very much an individual family decision but I figured it would not hurt to ask experienced parents with more wisdom and experience than I have.
My kid is applying to music programs too. I think I am mostly hoping he can cover his spending money to start and I’m hoping we keep loans to little to none. I do anticipate he will take a campus job. Last week we were at a music program and a grad student spoke during an info session and we later saw her working in the cafeteria. Love it! I don’t think dorm living is a must at all if debt is involved to make it happen. One thing definitely would NOT do is cosign a loan for a student. I think punching numbers on what debt is going to look like to pay back when trying to rent an apartment and get launched can be eye opening.
I do think especially for kids hoping to go into the arts, a post graduation life without a lot of worries about loan payments is a big gift. My kid and I look up artists he admires and they really come from all sorts of educational backgrounds from no degree at all, to a BA in an unrelated area, etc. You can take theory and ear training, etc anywhere. You can find good private teachers in many cities. Music faculty is great at many schools. Kids can hustle for and create opportunities. Even for kids heading down other paths - how many students change major? Or decide they want to join the peace corp or travel on the cheap or pursue a start up or apply to grad school? Not being chained to debt can give a new graduate a more much open playing field for their next move.
Anyway - my kid has financial reaches on the table too and we’re prepared to let them slip away if the money doesn’t make sense. A BA program may make the most sense for him at the end of the day (financially and/or academically/musically) and that would be ok too. I do agree that parents need to decide what they can do and what “skin in the game” means for their family. I do not think skin in the game needs to require a loan.
I have not read through all the responses, but here is what we plan on doing.
D19 has a 529 plan that is $15K. We told her that money and $10K per year from us is the amount she is getting from us for college. If there are any costs above that then it will be her responsibility. She has good stats and has some good merit offers where those funds should almost cover 100%. If her COA falls under what we told her we would give her we are not going to give her the difference, but instead her college life will be more comfortable.
We also have a D23 and we will have a similar deal maybe increased for inflation. If she doesn’t get as high stats as her sister she will have to make some decisions on where to go.
In the end any loans taken out for college will be the responsibility of the student.
Thanks @gpo613 Sounds like a great plan!
We did a tour at the “hidden gem” school I referred to and the tour guide student was pursuing the major my daughter was interested in and also a vocalist. He said the students had opportunities to earn money through music ministry at different places of worship in the area and a few nursing homes who hired singers/musicians. He personally did a nursing home gig which required 2 nights/week and paid $200 weekly. Not bad. She would,love to work on campus but I know those jobs are hard to come by and attached to financial aid I believe, but they did say they hire tutors in all areas so she would be great as a writing or ELA tutor. It’s a nice neighborhood so I’m sure there would be babysitting and/or make-up/wedding jobs she could pursue too. My point is that there ARE job opportunities at or near any college (some even in their field of interest) but students need to be active in following leads and getting connections. My daughter is not shy, which will hopefully work in her favor.
Another positive for the school I mentioned is it’s not in a big city (but only a short train ride from 2 big music cities) so cost of living is very low compared to some big city areas. If she moved off campus in year 2, the cost would be much lower than the dorms…
Loans are too easy. If you take 9k/year, after 2 years you’d pay about $220/month. That’s about $2600 on top of the out of pocket you’re trying to pull together for your share. By the start of her senior year, it’s 320 or 3800.
So while you think you can manage about $800/mo (or 1k x 10 months,) after 2 years, it’s more like almost 13k annually. You can look at repayment calculators online. You can see what you’d be paying after 1st semester senior year, before you (maybe) sell the house.
And when finances are tight, you may not want to put 36k (plus accumulated interest) from house profits into paying those back. Then finance a 2nd child. You may need it for the next home or retirement.
And don’t assume a starter salary makes it a breeze to pay back student loans. Especially if she plans to be in a music city, with a crazy cost of living.
My godson majored in music, is in a grad composition program and doesn’t like it. An older friend never did break in to song writing, despite connections in Nashville. He moved into investment and plays coffee shops in his free time.
As far as skin in the game goes, if a kid isn’t motivated to get good grades because his parents are paying, maybe the kid isn’t ready to go to college. Having a kid pay when college isn’t the right thing for them, probably won’t help. For a kid to have skin in the game the kid has to want to be there in the first place…
Like I said, how much kids contribute to college depends on a lot of things and there is really no one right answer.
Thing is, when you’ve got a hs senior, folks tend to look at the entrance costs- that first 10-20k you need to come up with. Maybe 2nd year. Then they get vague. Many assume their kids will do fine post grad, but you can’t know til they get there, start looking for the first job. I advocate sensible CYA, some reasonable caution.
The fact lifts of kids have college debt doesn’t make it easy. My D1 has a great salary, struggles with her payment, while living life. D2 is reestablishing herself in a new direction and doesn’t have a spare $300/mo.
If it works out, great. But this is the stuff sleepless nights are about. Just be careful.
@lookingforward yes, having debt is never easy. And you never know what sort of curve balls life will throw at you!
Yeah, it’s a Buzzfeed article, but worth reading. If the reporting is accurate there’s some food for thought here relevant to this discussion.
Lots to consider for sure. If we take out a loan, we would definitely begin paying on it during college to avoid massive interest being thrown at us at the end of college. No loan is ever good, even the low interests ones, so our goal will be to keep the total loan as small as possible and pay it off as quickly as possible.
She definitely does not need a college degree for what she wants to pursue. She has attended many workshops with musicians who came from elite colleges, unknown colleges and some who did not even attend college. She was actually offered a job as a live-in nanny in another state with a friend who owns a recording studio and could mentor her as she works and records her own music. It would not be terrible to take a gap year with a rich experience like that.
I guess the teacher in me just feels it’s imporabt to have a college education. We can also start with our community college to get the liberal arts credits in before transferring to save money.
We have many options and it will all come down to the offers she gets in the coming months. She may hit the jackpot with a huge offer. Or we may already have her best offer. Who knows? For now, we will take an honest look at things and be prepared for all scenarios.
AmyIzzy, I’m with you on the importance of a college education. Not just for her own development and intellectual growth- but because without one, everything is harder.
I have a group of friends who are talented designers, visual artists, photographers who were able to support themselves with freelance work and time to pursue their craft. Then something like the 2008 recession hits- oops. Now the freelance work dries up and they need a paycheck with health insurance. Ooops again- not only can they not get hired as an art teacher in their local school systems (why they thought this was a viable back up I don’t know, since those jobs are always hard to get) they can’t get hired as a sub because they don’t have a BA. And the spouse, who had the paycheck and the health insurance is laid off, or company folds, and now both of them have plenty of time to check online job boards and see which jobs require a BA. Answer- lots of them. One of them got a fantastic branding gig in 2009 for a very visible project-- it paid her exactly $2500-- she says it’s the kind of work which in the late 90’s would have paid 50K or more. That’s how competitive the market for artists became at one point!
Stuff happens. Macro things like recessions, micro things like a health issue. My local school system passed a ruling last year mandating a BA for even the para’s in the classrooms. Absurd? Maybe. But now you can’t even get an hourly position as a para.
And one more time- people change. Dancers decide they want to become art historians. Photographers decide they want to become transportation and urban planners. Singers end up as marketing directors at ad agencies. My study partner in business school was a talented actress who left a very well paid gig on a soap opera (back in the day when that was solid, highly paid, low risk union work unless you were written off the show by getting hit by a bus) to get an MBA. She woke up one day and realized she was approaching middle age and needed a pivot.
I think you’re smart to take things one day at a time!!!
If you can really pay the loan off while your kiddo is in school…consider looking at a monthly payment plan for paying for college. Most schools have this. There is a small set up fee annually, but then you pay per month. We did this rather than take out loans at the start of each term/year. It helped our cash flow as well.
So…if you have the money to pay off loans immediately…consider NOT taking out loans!
It depends on the family. I did not want my D to have any debt at all. She’s intrinsically motivated and requiring her to take loans as some sort of motivation would have just stressed her out. If a kid needs loans to motivate them, I’d be concerned. But that’s just me.
Oh and D has 0 “skin in the game.” She doesn’t work or pay for anything. She gets a generous monthly allowance for fun spending and I pay for all needs and such. She still works hard and cares about her education.
I agree 100% @blossom. There are great conservatories out there but my daughter prefers a liberal arts school to help her get a well-rounded education. One school stressed that they are an arts school but require students to take a good number of liberal arts classes and encourage minors and double majors. They also stress the business and marketing side of an arts career. I was very impressed with how they tried to prepare students for the real world. She received a generous academic scholarship from them (with up to $5000 more for talent which they will announce soon) and was invited into their honors program which has some nice perks. My husband is self-employed so we are well aware of those unexpected set-backs. We know many musicians and almost all tell us college should not be an option but is a must. It may be a struggle but we will make it work.
I agree with @thumper1 - we do the same, we use the payment plan in addition to the student loans and merit our kids get to help make the paying a bit more manageable