How much should we worry about grade deflation when picking a college for possible pre-med major?

<p>S has applied to a variety of schools with good biology programs, which is what he is really interested in (our flagship state school, several other state schools, and a few privates). Cost is not a significant consideration. But, since he applied, I have read that several of his choices practice grade deflation (ex. Boston University). He isn't sure yet whether he will want to go to medical school, but he might. He is a good student, but not the very best in math and some of the sciences, so I doubt he would be able to pull of As (or maybe even Bs) at schools that truly limit the number of As and Bs awarded in each class. How much should we take that into consideration in choosing his school?</p>

<p>Medical school admissions committees are pretty well versed on what it takes to get grades at different schools. If your student goes to a school that grades easier, they will need to show an appropriately better record.</p>

<p>I think JustOneDad’s comment is true to a certain extent, but on the whole I think that medical schools focus quite a lot on the GPA without adjusting it for the school. The MCAT functions as somewhat of an equalizing factor.</p>

<p>It depends how badly he wants to get in. I would advise choosing the school where he can get the highest GPA. I wouldn’t count on med schools knowing grading policies at all colleges. Every year med school dreams are broken by grades that just didn’t quite make it–grades that would’ve been better at an “easier” school. IMO, grade deflation should be a big consideration in his situation.</p>

<p>outside of the tippy top schools, HYPSM, every other college is pretty much considered equal. A 3.6+ is needed to be competitive, unless you are a resident of California (which is even more competitive).</p>

<p>All schools curve premed prereqs, but BU does have a reputation for being particularly stingy. </p>

<p>Wait until you see where he gets in and decide then.</p>

<p><<<
Medical school admissions committees are pretty well versed on what it takes to get grades at different schools. If your student goes to a school that grades easier, they will need to show an appropriately better record.
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<p>This is not really true, except for may a tiny number of schools, I think Reed might be one.</p>

<p>The OP seems to be talking about weeding that goes on virtually everywhere (limiting the number of As in the weeder classes). There are NO allowances for that by med schools. </p>

<p>@atomom is correct. Go where your child will get the highest GPA. That typically means where his/her stats are well-within the upper quartile. </p>

<p>Premeds often make the mistake of going where their stats are average (where they were lucky to get in!)…and then they emerge with stats that aren’t med-school-worthy. </p>

<p>@QuantMech‌ Is right. GPA is extremely important, and MCAT scores tend to back those up. A good MCAT score will not make up for a weaker GPA, especially for a traditional applicant. We have seen premed applicants get shut-out of all MD schools (not even an interview!), because GPA was a 3.5, even though the MCAT was good and the undergrad name was prestigious. </p>

<p>Adding…cost might not be a significant consideration for the four years of undergrad…but what about the costs of medical school? You might want to also consider where you can allocate resources for the long term. If you plan to help with grad school of any kind, you might want to consider the costs of undergrad.</p>

<p>And if your kiddo really does go to medical school, it would be very helpful if he had very little to no undergrad debt.</p>

<p>Don’t count on a kid who isn’t the strongest math and science student magically getting A’s in Orgo just because he picked a school with grade inflation. I don’t think your logic is sound. I think it’s certainly a factor to consider- what are the grading policies, who ends up in Med school from these colleges, etc. But it’s not the only factor. A school with tough grading policies which also has exceptional med school advising is by far the better choice IMHO.</p>

<p>So it’s more complicated than just “get a good GPA and MCAT score”. There need to be human beings highly invested in your son’s future- who can advise, direct him to tutors and the help center when he’s struggling, etc. AND help him with plan B if he decides he wants a career in life sciences which is NOT being a physician. AND help him cultivate relationships with faculty for fellowship, research opportunities. Not just a GPA factory.</p>

<p>CC loves to advise “To to the college where you’ll get the highest GPA possible”. I don’t think the statistics bear that out. Certainly the more rigorous colleges have a better qualified cohort which is interested in med school- which explains some of their success in med school admissions. But they also tend to have TONS of support to get and keep kids who are on a tough academic track motivated and excited about what they are studying. Not just being GPA %^&*'s.</p>

<p>For my money, I’d want to see the stats of who gets into med school from these colleges and which med schools. Nothing wrong with Granada. But a big university ought to be fielding successful med school applicants across a wide range of US med schools in addition to the “plan B’s”, i.e. osteopath, off-shore med schools, etc.</p>

<p><a href=“Osteopathic Schools Turn Out Nearly a Quarter of All Med School Grads - The New York Times”>Osteopathic Schools Turn Out Nearly a Quarter of All Med School Grads - The New York Times;

<p>Good article about osteopathic medical schools. A little off topic…but a good read for those considering a career as a doctor.</p>

<p>You should look at top feeder schools. For example jhu is a top med school feeder university and most of the students are pre-med. They have pre-med advising, pre-med prep. Where as sending them to an easier school where only 10 people (an exaggeration) go to med school might not be as beneficial. </p>

<p>Undergrad…JHU has over 5000 undergrad students…so let’s say 1300 per class. Are you saying that the vast majority of those students are accepted to medical school? Sorry…but I don’t think the numbers would support that notion.</p>

<p>One of my closest friends is currently a second-year at an osteopathic medical school. She did try admissions to only allopathic schools the first time around, in her senior year of college at UCLA (where the premed classes were 600+, but where she also did very well). After getting her MPH she realized that she really wanted a more holistic model of care and she really wanted to practice primary care in underserved communities, which osteopathic schools concentrate on (along with the same medicine MDs learn). So she only applied to DO schools the second time around.</p>

<p>I don’t know why the reputation of DO schools is lower than MD schools - maybe because they admit students with slightly lower stats? But “slightly lower” is still good, and DOs are licensed to practice in all the same ways MDs are. One of my favorite doctors ever was a DO and I didn’t even know until I went to look up his phone number in the book once I forgot it. (He didn’t do any of the musculoskeletal manipulations; he was just a run of the mill ob/gyn.) But anyway, I suspect that as more students get turned away from MD programs and the knowledge about DO schools rises, it will become more difficult to get into them.</p>

<p>That aside, though, I wouldn’t assume that your son will do better at a school at which he’s in the top 25% or that, conversely, he will do worse at a school at which he is average. Some students are motivated by competition with their peers and/or heavily influenced by peer behavior and priorities. He could go to a school where he’s in the top 5% but be surrounded by students for whom grades aren’t important and get a mediocre GPA. Or he could go there and assume that he’ll coast through at the top, but the other kids work harder than him. Conversely, he could go somewhere at which he’s an average student and excel because of the competition and peer pressure to study and work hard. After all, everyone at Harvard or Princeton is pretty much your average student, but somebody has to graduate summa cum laude.</p>

<p>I think most applicants to DO schools are MD shut outs. Not a knock- just reality.</p>

<p>I do agree with Juillet’s analysis on the grades though. If a kid is a party-hearty U and is hitting the books on Saturday nights (even if he’s in the top 25% of applicants- those chem labs are not going to write themselves!) it may be more alienating then being at a college where working hard is the prevailing campus culture.</p>

<p>The trouble with blossom’s advice is that the stats (about who gets into med school from a particular college) simply don’t exist. Those colleges that do report percentage of successful applicants massage their statistics in a hundred different ways.</p>

<p>BTW, those same schools who do report percentages of successful applicants also tend to have pre-med committees which “protect” their percentages by denying pre-med committee letters of recommendation to kids ‘on the bubble’ for med school in order to keep their placement rates artificially high. </p>

<p>I have 2 kids in med school: one went to the prestigious Top 30 known for its pre med program (and grade-deflating curves–which weren’t really grade-deflating so much as capped at 15% As per weeder class); the other went to a state U ranked in the 200s (known for having 500+ kids in a single OChem class and a 2 year wait to take the lab). Guess what? Both ended up with the GPA, MCAT, LORs and ECs needed to get into [multiple] med schools. </p>

<p>It’s not about the school–it’s about the kid.</p>

<p>And I agree–any kid who’s “not the best best in math and some sciences” is going to have a very hard time earning the grades for med school and strong MCAT score regardless of where he attends college. </p>

<p>Graduate school ACs at the most selective schools have weighting factors to apply to the various undergraduate GPAs, specifically to help them make those kinds of decisions. Furthermore, application packets are well enough developed that students are encouraged to explain any factors that they may believe weigh against them.</p>

<p>As for the “weeder” classes, I will point out that they work fairly well. People who are not well suited for the rigors of studying and practicing medicine are the ones I’ve seen dropping out because of them.</p>

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<p>Unless it is H, Y or Brown (best grade inflation ever), I strongly disagree. </p>

<p>Hopkins is a large “feeder” becos so many of its matriculants are premed to begin with. I would guess maybe 40%, in contrast to to perhaps ~25% at most other colleges. (Do the math and the critical thinking).</p>

<p>So bluebayou…just asking. If 40% of 1000 kids in a JHU class are premed, that is 400 kids, right? How many actually apply and are accepted to medical school from that 400?</p>

<p>@JustOneDad, adcoms at <em>some</em> med schools weigh undergrad GPAs by school. There was someone here on CC who served on his (public) med school’s admissions committee. He said they just took the GPA as is with no weighing (most of the applicants to that med school came from the state’s 2 big publics anyway, so maybe they didn’t feel that they needed to).</p>

<p>BTW, I would estimate the percentage of pre-meds at JHU to be higher than 40% (though it could be only 40%).</p>

<p>I didn’t mean to suggest that my son was not good in math or science–he is. He is making As in AP biology now and As and Bs in AP calculus. I just meant that, at a university where, in a class of 200, only a few will earn As and Bs in classes like chemistry and physics, his grades so far don’t suggest that he would be likely to be one of them. He very well may buckle down and do great in those subjects in college, but that’s hard to predict now. I would just like to make sure that we choose the right school for him where he is poised to have the best chances.</p>

<p>thumper, The Hop matriculates ~1325 each year, so my guess is well over 500 of them are premed/prehealth.</p>

<p>Hopkins has a committee, which only writes recommendations for those that they believe to be “worthy” (aka, have a good chance of acceptance). Obviously, with such self-selection, their admit rate to med school is pretty good. (Many others take a gap year, some more advanced classes and apply later.)</p>

<p>btw: WashU is another schools that punches above its weight (to use a sports metaphor). They have a surprising (to me at least) % of low 3 GPA’s that are accepted to med school every year.</p>