My son wants to study finance and maybe go into investment banking. He has 3.9/4.4 GPA and 34 ACT. Will take 12 AP classes, is a 3 sport varsity athlete, many EC’s and volunteer hours and first place at FBLA Nationals. Likes Boston College, NYU and Notre Dame. Not even sure he can get into these schools so would it be a complete waste to pick UPenn or Duke for ED binding as a very reach school?
Also need to mention is from Chicago suburbs so that combined with no diversity we feel is a real disadvantage for admissions.
Are you full pay? Is he happy with his alternatives if he isn’t accepted to BC, NYU or Notre Dame during regular decision? He only has one early decision card to use, so I would urge careful thought to using it. Does your school have naviance so you can judge his chances? As you know, even with ED, the odds are very long at Duke and Penn. Using that ED card would be very helpful at the other schools.
If a student has a clear first choice college, I don’t look at applying to it as a waste of the Early application that gives an edge to admissions if the student wants to give it a try and feels there would be regrets if s/he did not give it that chance, however slim it might be. It’s not anyone else’s opinion of whether the chances are too low or nonexistent. The applicant is the one who has to know when the chances are slim or none, that slim is out of town, not by others’ conjectures.
Why isn’t he applying to HPY? Most student who feel they have some chance of admittance of those 3 most selective, most well known schools will apply to them. Most students also inherently know when the chances of admittance to the schools is too small to waste the time of applying. That it’s absurd to tell anyone that they are applying there , including the GC. Yeah, there are a few stellar top of the top scholars that truly don’t want to go to these schools, but usually it’s some little voice that says, it’s a no go.
But that’s not the case for, say Duke or Penn, right? There is a glimmer of hope , enough of a perceive chance (whether there truly is or not) that admittance just might be gained at those two schools. If this student “settled” on BC as an ED pick, he’d feel like he settled too low in what he wants.
If he feels that way, he should pick the school he likes the most and apply to it. If he, and you are playing the ratings game of what most selective college can he get an acceptance, well, the best CHANCE of winning there, is to go with the one with the highest odds of the batch he likes.
I suggest pairing any early school with a sure thing Early or rolling school that is certain to take the student. Maybe State U. Get that app in early to get that bird i have because it can be very painful and demoralizing to get rejected or deferred when there might be a lot of acceptances and commitments being made among his peers. That safety school schools be the one most researched. You have plenty of reach schools that he’d be happy to attend. It’s finding some schools that would be so happy to have him that they’ll snap him right up that he’d like that are often the most difficult to find. The selective schools are on ever so many lists.
According to the EFC calculation we will be full pay. I didn’t think this was relevant as all of the admissions people are saying it doesn’t impact your application? Since we have to pay full price I would love it to work in his favor since there are so many things that don’t for him. His dad and I are both first generation college that grew up very poor and helped support our families but now since we’ve been successful that seems to be working against him for not just tuition but even admissions?
His safety schools are IL, IN and TX since looking at finance but he would much prefer BC, ND and NYU or of course any school that rates even higher. We aren’t considering any Ivy as it doesn’t seem like he has a chance there without a “hook” and were just considering letting him pick one (he thought UPenn since best for Finance or Duke just because he liked the campus) for a shot at ED but I am just worried that we will waste that potential little boost to get him into ND or NYU (Stern I’m told has single digit admissions so almost as hard as Ivies). I think BC is a bit more realistic maybe but although we apparently have enough to pay full tuition we don’t have enough to pay thousands to a consultant to help us figure out what his realistic chances are at these schools with all of the specific variables schools don’t publish (location, race, first generation, etc.)
I second this. I don’t think it’s a waste to apply ED to a hyper-selective school, but find some safeties and matches that offer rolling/EA admissions.
U Richmond offers EA and may be a good match for a kid who likes Duke and Penn. It has a pretty good business school and a gorgeous campus.
That said, I think OP’s son needs to think hard about what he wants in a college (besides a good econ/finance program) before applying ED anywhere. His list is fairly eclectic – Duke and NYU are about as different as it gets.
ND business school does an early read. I suggest that your son contacts them to have them do that before making his decision.
The fact of the matter here is that your son and you want the most selective, highest rated (by USN&WR and other such high profile college raters as well as conventional wisdom) business program to which he can gain admittance. Doesn’t really matter whether it’s NYU, Duke, whatever. It’s the rating that matters.
Most of the undergraduate business programs of name recognition schools are more difficult to gain entry than their liberal arts programs. Texas, if it’s UT-Austin is a very difficult admittance even for auto admit top Texans.
ED is not a waste if it offers a bit of an advantage. Even, all things equal, it offers a CHANCE to get this while college thing done and over early, gives an early read on the situation in proceeding further in RD if admissions is denied or deferred. There are no certainties in this and you never really know what your personal odds were in the situation whether accepted or not. It’s 100% either way for each person. Only the composite figures are available
So give it a go— let him pick his early choices, share all the relevant info and advice With some safety schools in place, even if he does not gain admittance to his top early choice or any of his highly selective picks, he’ll have some very good schools from which to choose.
Selective means just that—difficult to gain admittance. So you give it your best but make sure you have less selective and certain choices in the mix because that’s where most students end up going.
TX is not a safety for you. Nor a match. A reach out of state, especially for Mccombs. The opportunity cost of an ED to Penn, for example is high. Unlikely he will get in to Notre Dame during regular decision round. Better chances at NYU and BC.
NYU and Duke are VERY different but he likes both, each has their unique qualities and he is the type of kid who could fit in anywhere. That is ultimately making the decision even harder unfortunately so we are trying to steer him away from schools he has NO chance of getting into and have realistic expectations. If he doesn’t get a 35 or 36 when he retakes ACT probably won’t apply to Penn or Duke.
I am a first time user of this forum so not sure how to reference a particular person but a previous comment mention something about a ND early read? He is touring in a couple of weeks at ND is there some preliminary process to see chances of getting in or is this just referring to their Restrictive Early Action application?
https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2018/06/05/qa-with-mendoza-admissions/
Read up on the Early Read. Would give you food for thought about chances for the super competitive schools at ND accept rate and lower
This is your personal opinion. My personal opinion is that the only people who believe that all top students only dream of three schools are simply seeing a tiny part of the big picture and are too steeped in old school bias to be open to current trends. Out of the approximately 3 million graduating seniors, there are thousands of stellar top scholars and it’s beyond ridiculous to assume they would all want the same thing. Smart students especially are now clued in to the fact that there are many great college options, not just the few that their parents may have valued, and many more reasons for being open to the world beyond the traditional few.
Let’s stop repeating these myths. Top students are not all the same and do not want the exact same colleges.
If you are a parent reading this - be open to your kids being interested in different things than you were. There is new information out there - some of the colleges that were valued during our app days have been revealed to have some ugly warts. Some of the colleges we never heard of are being discovered by new generations. And frankly it’s ugly and nasty to imply that a student that doesn’t apply to HY or P does so because s/he knows she’s not a top student.
If you are a student - don’t let public opinion, a ranking system, your parents or myth make your choice for you. Figure out what’s important to you and find out where you can get that. It may be at a college you’ve never heard of.
I agree with @milee30 and the number of apps bears that out, if @cptofthehouse was saying we’re true HYP would be in the 100,000 range or more. My advice is ED to his top school whichever one that is.
Personally, I wouldn’t allow my child to ED to a school with a sub 5% admission rate, at the cost of giving up that ED card at a more attainable school, but each family makes its own decision. Penn’s early acceptance rate was 18%, but one quarter of those admitted in that round were legacy and another quarter either international or first gen. Recruited athletes, too, are usually in the ED round, number not disclosed, but certainly over 100 students. An unhooked male student applying for business is an extreme long shot, but if satisfied with the alternatives if rejected, may be worth a try.
There is nothing about his profile that makes any of those schools, including Duke or Penn, foolish choices. If one is a first choice, I would say he should ED there. It’s possible he won’t be accepted (but probably deferred, not rejected) but this will be the best shot at these schools too. I also doubt that a higher ACT would make any difference. If he is truly ambivalent, you can play the ED card for advantage, but you also have to be 100% comfortable walking away from all the others without knowing their decision.
I do agree that those two, for example, are very different places, as are ND and NYU. So while there may be things that appeal about both, my hunch is that one of them will be a far better fit outside the classroom. Give this some thought.
I feel like I write this on every thread that I read asking about chances but my suggestion is to find out your high school’s history. Who got accepted ED from your school to these colleges? Were they legacies, URMs, or recruited athletes? At our Chicago suburban school, Duke did take a two kids ED last year who were none of the above. This was a surprise and an exception from the norm. They were both amazing young women with grades, rigor, and ECs at the national level.
But, for the last four years of info that we have, the top 20 schools only accepted students ED who were legacies or athletes. It’s a pattern here. The most popular top universities at our school (Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, all Ivies, Chicago) and top 10 LACs will take the athletes and legacies ED. You should find out the history at your school. I know people like to say that you should ED to your favorite school because it’s your favorite and, of course, one should visit and be very sure it’s a top choice, but I also understand ED as a strategy and one should make sure not to waste it with RD acceptance rates at these schools being so so low.