<p>And if it sounds rude, and it looks rude, it probably is rude.</p>
<p>Gracie, calling people dumb, stupid, and lazy is completely inappropriate, whatever your feelings on this issue. I happen to agree with most of what you are saying - the book sounds like it is clearly plagiarized - but there is no reason to be disrespectful and downright nasty to other posters. I think you owe apologies to several people on this thread - starting with donemom.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>The Harvard Crimson is calling for her to be investigated through the Harvard disciplinary process for students.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Well <em>part</em> of the Crimson is calling for that. A companion piece argues the opposite: </p>
<p>The dissent is right on point. An investigation would only be the product of a high-horse ruthlessness.</p>
<p>
<p>Well <em>part</em> of the Crimson is calling for that. A companion piece argues the opposite:
</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing that out. The dissent's main point will be vitiated, of course, if it can be shown that there was academic dishonesty on the Harvard campus in a Harvard class by the student in question. </p>
<p>I thought Dershowitz's letter to the editor of The Crimson </p>
<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513348%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513348</a> </p>
<p>was interesting. It pays to mosey around on the pages of The Crimson.</p>
<p>The best summary of this saga is in the Harvard Independent ("Kaavyagate").
Wether Kaavya "wrote" the book or Alloy did, there was plagiarism involved. There was also intentional misrepresentation with the objective of career (Harvard) and financial (500k) gains. There was collusion with hired agents to perpetuate this fraud.</p>
<p>If Kaavya "wrote" the book, she plagiarized. If she did not "write" the book, then she lied about authorship. In either case, with her full consent, outside agents were hired to ensure the scheme worked. The motive behind either plagiarism or lying was greed (academic honor and financial).</p>
<p>Nobody in this episode comes off smelling clean. Not Kaavya, not her parents, not Ivywise (and I'm surprised they're sill allowed to peddle their wares on this site), not Alloy, etc. The fact that they all reveled so thoroughly in their glory, giving interviews here and there, leveraging their success to secure movie deals, etc, prior to the scheme's collapse, gives this the aura of a grossly cynical and comic greek tragedy.</p>
<p>At least one plagiarized sentence has now been found in one of her Bergen Record newspaper columns published before she enrolled at Harvard. </p>
<p>While I obviously can't condone what Kaavya (or is it Alloy) did here, it does feel like this has taken on the character of a witch hunt at this point. Maybe we should also go after the American School Foundation, which reprinted the same information as was in the Bergen Record story at this link (or the School Nurse News, which is cited by ASF as the source):</p>
<p>Would you guys please get off Kaavya's case?!? What do you want her to do, pluck her eyes out? Yesterday she apologized to reporters with tears running down her face. I hope you're all satisfied. Here's a quote from The Crimson: "Kaavya wept as she explained, 'It all started 4 score and 7 weeks ago, when I regretted that I had but no manuscript to give to my publisher.'"</p>
<p>Here's my take on this, as a 17-year-old who would love a $500K book deal.</p>
<p>I do think she plagiarized some of her book. Writing a novel is very, very hard, and I think that at some point she realized what she'd gotten herself into, couldn't finish, and went to some of her favorite books to copy sentences that she thought fit with her book. That was plagiarism, and it was wrong.</p>
<p>Here's my question: how did the Harvard Crimson first find out about the plagiarism? What Kaavya did was wrong, but the way she was exposed smacks of jealousy to me. Why were her classmates combing through her book, looking for plagiarized sections?</p>
<p>As for whether or not she gets kicked out of Harvard - I don't think she should be thrown out unless it was specifically the book deal that got her in, and no one can prove that. She'll never be able to sell another novel, she's been subjected to national humiliation, and her book contract has been canceled. Let her graduate. </p>
<p>She did something incredibly stupid as a 17-year-old, before she'd even left home, and people are going to remember it for a long time. I don't think Harvard needs to go the extra mile and kick her out.</p>
<p>Side note: the idea of paying $20,000 to some service to get into an Ivy League school makes me sick, particularly with everything that's happening in the world right now. From the description of her other accomplishments, she could have gone to an excellent school, maybe even an Ivy, without spending that amount of money. It's a gross waste. Tutoring is one thing; 'packaging' a person is another.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why were her classmates combing through her book, looking for plagiarized sections?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I doubt anyone was "combing" for plagiarism. I do believe that those who read both books noticed that similarities existed, and then went back to find each and every one.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Have you taken the trouble to read anything in the last few pages of this thread? Or did you just decide to instantly post a reply, without thinking twice?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, I did read the thread, as well as the sources referred to by the Crimson. I was merely trying to be nice and not jump to conclusions. I'm sure she did plagiarize, but less confident that she stole from as many texts as we're attributing... some passages the Crimson writers consider "stolen" are not strikingly similar and seem like generic interpretations of "standard" family scenes. Perhaps we should allow that very close examination of anything will always yield a conspiracy, no matter how innocent... thus the 'coded' magazine articles in "A Beautiful Mind."</p>
<p>Harvard students PETITIONED to have a student expelled for copying elements of an article written in high school? I would expect them to petition to allow the student to stay! Some friendly bunch of uncompetitive kids at Harvard school...</p>
<p>What's the Web link for the latest from the Crimson on this case?</p>
<p>River - if you are referring to the Blair Hornstine case, the plagiarism wasn't the only thing against her. She had also milked a questionable disability diagnosis into allowing her to take a lot of classes at home - permitting her to have a GPA higher than possible for any other student. Yet, when the school wanted to make her and another student co-vals, she sued to be the only valedictorian. Obviously, none of this warrants getting kicked out of Harvard. The plagiarism, however, did. Why shoudl one of the best schools in the world take someone who is acadaemically dishonest?</p>
<p>A "hypothetical" question begs to be asked. </p>
<p>Here's the situation:
1. You just got accepted into one of the most highly competitive schools in the world. Your "hook" was that you had signed a book deal at the age of 17.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Never in your wildest dreams did you ever think you would, but you actually got half a million dollars for writing the book. </p></li>
<li><p>Life is taking on an unreal quality at this point. You are famous. Everyone and their mothers knows you as the girl who is gonna make the world rock by writing a book at such a young age.</p></li>
<li><p>It should be so easy...but... damn! You suddenly can't seem to produce ANYTHING under all that pressure - let alone something witty and amusing like what you promised the publisher.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>What would YOU do? Would you:</p>
<p>a. Admit defeat and back down from your one shot at fame?
b. Or...? What? What are some other options?</p>
<p>What I would do is what most authors do under time pressure: talk to my publisher about getting an extension of time for submitting the manuscript. That's the right thing to do, the honest thing to do, and the choice that gives the author time to fulfill the contractual obligation of submitting a noninfringing, original manuscript.</p>
<p>I can't believe there is any sympathy at all for her. Every field has its one or two cardinal rules (just ask Pete Rose), and she violated one that higher education MUST enforce. If she's not banished from Harvard, the whole system becomes a joke.</p>
<p>TourGuide, I'm guessing you don't have kids. :)</p>
<p>TourGuide likes to troll for flames, if previous</a> posts are any guide. Or maybe he is still making up his mind on this issue. </p>
<p>On the human level, sure I have sympathy for people who are caught in wrong-doing. "To err is human" and all that. But I guess I have considerably more sympathy for the Harvard applicants who were aspiring writers in the same admission cycle who wrote original pieces, and who were rejected, than for an applicant who made a bought-and-paid-for application not wholly based on original, personal effort. Fessing up earlier in the case under discussion would have helped a lot to evoke my sympathy. </p>
<p>Best wishes to everyone who resolves to go on with life in honesty and diligence.</p>
<p>Based on what Ive read/heard about Kaavya (which is admittedly limited), my take is that shes basically a decent girl, certainly very bright and personable, who got caught up in an adult world that she did not handle well. She allowed herself to be used and she clearly made some major mistakes. And I agree that fessing up earlier would have elicited more sympathy. </p>
<p>But I cant blame the bought-and-paid-for application aspect of the story (a trend I find loathsome btw) on her. That part of it was her parents decision, and shes far from the only person whose family has used such services to help with admission to an elite school. Also, the book deal was not the basis of her admission that happened after she was already at Harvard. So far as Im aware, there have been no allegations that she cheated or plagiarized on any of her work for school. Finally, while in some respects she may be an adult, in others shes still a kid. Shes lost her book deal and her movie deal (a just result), and shes been subjected to public humiliation (which by now has gone beyond justice imo). I dont see any point in kicking her out of Harvard or continuing the witch hunt. Let her fade back into obscurity, learn from her mistakes and get on with her life.</p>