How stupid is the brute force "just pay" strategy? (NYTimes Ethicist)

Have you run the net price calculator at Harvard? For a need based college it beats the FAFSA EFC calculation for the vast majority of families and it is easy to use.

Notre Dame is also generous, here is the breakdown of an incoming class’s financial aid by income level that has more categories in the upper income brackets than the College Navigator site.

https://financialaid.nd.edu/how-aid-works/expected-family-contribution/

Stanford/MIT don’t offer merit and did seem to be nearly identical to FAFSA’s EFC when we ran it, but that was years ago. More colleges that started ending up with U shaped classes are trying to extend financial aid to mid and upper income families like Rice. https://financialaid.rice.edu The financial aid landscape is constantly changing.

I know some full pay families that ended up with merit offers from Case Western that put it in the same price range as our in state publics. But that doesn’t always happen, so you can’t count on it.

That’s why I am a huge fan of auto-merit schools. I love that they are upfront about their merit and often are rolling admission. It is a big relief to have an affordable option in hand early in the process.

This is definitely a process where the more you and your student knows, the better chance you have of guiding your student toward the colleges that will yield some affordable choices.

1 Like

There may be additional options among other WUE schools:
https://www.wiche.edu/tuition-savings/wue/wue-savings-finder/?degreetypes=Bachelor's&majors=Mechanical+Engineering

3 Likes

Re: how to find a cheap college:

Folks, I know you’re trying to be helpful here and I appreciate it, but I already know how to find a cheap college and suck it up, buttercup. I know how to be poor.

That is not the problem I’m trying to work through.

I started this thread to help me understand whether I am leveraging the resources I have built up, to help my kids, especially the oldest, get into and attend the most challenging and fitting university they can.

I want to do my part as a parent to give them the best possible support economically to achieve their goals.

We went through a similar process. I was astounded at how much college costs are now, even though I knew they had been increasing at a rate higher than inflation for some time and states have been reducing support for their public universities. D24 is a good student, but not likely to get tippy top scholarships, and a lot of higher ranked schools are pretty stingy with any kind of merit aid, many out of state publics included. We are not likely to get need-based aid, but cannot afford to pay 80K+ year.

How in the world do people pay this? There must be some trick, right?

Reducing wage income or assets would be counterproductive. We are already putting money into protected retirement accounts. 529 already funded at the level we chose. Moving to a state with a desired public college for in-state tuition was not something that we could easily do. Shady stuff was just no.

So where did that leave us? In our case, we had to tell D24 to eliminate any schools that could not come in around 50K or less, which unfortunately included a number of UCs with excellent programs in majors she is interested in.

UCs are over $68K now, so needing 280K+ for a student starting in 2025 seems quite likely. You have 100K for each of your kids now? Does an additional 140K seem like something you can swing over the next 6 years without shortchanging your younger kid’s college? Are you strictly no loans or does it depend?

I don’t think you are missing anything or that "just pay"ing is stupid, but it’s probably time to have a really hard look at the numbers. If it does put any limits on the kid, better for them to know upfront.

I was pinged by @1dadinNC to chime in. As I read through the thread, I think I’ll bow out for now.

@MmeZeeZee , you’re in a pickle right now. You have $50K per child currently, you won’t qualify for need based aid, you want your children to attend an OOS public or a private university (ostensibly with some name recognition,) AND you don’t want to pay full price.

There’s nothing wrong with any of those goals, but I don’t see a path out. I won’t ask details about your finances, but it seems like you’re not too worried about paying $30K-$40K/yr out-of-pocket (not including the 529 funds.) Meaning, of course you’d like to spend less, but you’re financially able and mentally prepared to pay the $30K-$45K/yr.

If that’s true, and if the goal is OOS and/or Private Uni, then no problem. Your kids will get to do that. You’ll spend a little more than the 2015-you might have presumed, but you’re able to so it’s not the worst ending. It sounds like you know the OOS cost of the Cal system schools is over $65K. You’re aware of the costs of various private Unis that might be on your child’s radar. You’re not much interested in very similar but less expensive options. In other words, you got this.

However, if you truly can’t afford to pay $30K-$45K/yr out-of-pocket, something will have to give. I don’t think that’s the case with your family, but let me know if it is and I (and probably others) will jump in to offer suggestions.

But if the question is “how do upper middle-class families pay low prices to afford pricey options?”, sorry but I can’t help you there.

6 Likes

I don’t think there is a trick, either. When I read that article (the one about the person who wanted to end a friendship over a friend lying on the FAFSA) I thought there is just too much hearsay. I have seen this among my own friends and family - people who don’t differentiate between merit and financial aid. People who tell me things about what their kid or a friend or cousin was offered that just doesn’t make sense to me. I tend to think they have misunderstood something.

That said - I just went through the process with my test-optional B student who was offered very nice merit at several private universities that would be considered safety schools for this website - but we loved them all. And we were happy that they came in at or under budget. So you might find the process easier with your daughter than with your son.

2 Likes

I didn’t say that. I asked if it was stupid to pay full price.

I can pay $30k out of pocket. That’s not a problem at this time.

I don’t want my kids to go out of state, but I do think I have an obligation as the person who brought them into this world, to do my utmost to help them achieve their goals.

It’s odd to me how many people here, on a college-oriented message board, seem so immune to the pain that is caused when kids realize that their hard work means nothing, that it’s only money.

Do people realize that you only need a 3.0 average to go to Western, and barely more to WSU? If that’s the plan, they can start slacking now.

They are both girls but I appreciate your story. That’s very helpful.

Wow. Even by CC standards, this is pretty elitist.

1 Like

My apologies. No offense intended.

I’m sure this will all work out for you and your kids. They’re smart and working hard, and their parents are working hard to make them happy and successful. The family has means and paying for college is not an issue.

You got this.

3 Likes

Yes, it is painful, but looking at the situation realistically, most people’s college choices are determined mostly by parental circumstances and choices (mainly financial). Only within those constraints does student achievement matter.

A 4.0 HS GPA student is more likely to graduate from college (any college) than a 3.0 HS GPA student.

2 Likes

Regarding the above… maybe you know this already, but paying a ridiculous amount for college isn’t part of the “parent’s responsibility” in many homes. My son’s first choice college was one that doesn’t give merit $$$s. I flat out told him I would not pay that amount and I would not let him take out loans to pay it (really students can’t take that much anyway, parents have to). I’m pretty sure he is very thankful with the outcome he had. Other kid figured out on his own that in state public for his major was pretty darned good, and others weren’t worth the extra cost.
It is perfectly reasonable to set limits, and worry about things like your retirement in addition to kid’s college experience.

7 Likes

Agreed, my kids knew it was either in state, or private/OOS with merit. Therefore those who wanted to leave NJ knew they had to have high stats for it to be possible. It’s a good idea to research the generosity of potential colleges before applying (somehow Villanova ended up on a daughter’s list and was #1 until no merit was offered so a definitive no). My college graduates had great experiences and ended up with nice job offers. You can’t borrow for retirement and we are comfortable with that plan.

3 Likes

More advice you didn’t ask for, but that is the most toxic thinking. That everything they’ve done in HS is somehow not worth it if they are not able to go on to a jazzy, top-tier, name brand college? You’re not the only person who says it - but if you really want to set your kids up for success, I’d urge you to really examine that. College isn’t about parental bragging rights.

8 Likes

Yep mine too. We had enough for to get them through ~3 years of in-state Public college. We said we would get them through year 4, so they wouldn’t have loans. But anything more expensive wasn’t happening.

Older S got a full tuition scholarship at a private, and younger S got half tuition at an in-state public (and both had several local ones), so fortunately it wound up not being that bad and both have/had lots leftover.

2 Likes

Many realize that working hard benefits the student no matter where they go to college. They aren’t working hard to win a prize by being admitted to X college.

I’m not saying a student shouldn’t apply to reaches, but they do need to find an affordable safety or two where they would be happy to go.

7 Likes

Here’s what hard work buys you in college- regardless of which college:

1- Time management skills. The first time you have a paper, a quiz, and a lab report/problem set due the same week, you don’t fall apart and call home crying. You buckle down and write the paper, study for the quiz, and finish the lab report because you know how to do that.

2- Initiative. When the professor delivers a lecture which you only kinda/sorta understand, you first go back and do the reading again and THEN show up at office hours to ask questions. You don’t wait until you get a D on the final to admit that you’ve been lost for week.

3-Analytical skills. When Textbook A comes to a different conclusion about the trigger for WWI than your professor described, you have the intellectual horsepower to understand that the Textbook editors are pushing one point of view for ideological reasons, and your professor has a different take. Doesn’t mean that either are wrong- just that a phenomenon as complex as a WW likely has multiple triggers and causes and divisions that go back hundreds of years. And the job of historians is to parse those triggers, not to spit back what’s written in a tertiary source.

Etc. I could go on, but you get the point. Working hard in HS makes you a better college student which means you get a better education. period.

Nobody is asking you to suck it up buttercup. And we all get it that after having limitations in your life, you don’t want that for your kids.

But at some point reality intrudes.

12 Likes

Yes the world is unfair. Ever wondered why hedge fund manager Ken Griffin is giving $300M to Harvard? Because his kids just started high school and that’s the going rate for the Z list if you are a billionaire.

But a hard working and talented kid doesn’t need to go to Harvard to succeed and you shouldn’t feel bad because Harvard and many other colleges have been corrupted by money. Just like you shouldn’t feel bad if you can’t afford a luxury car or holiday home or the lifestyle depicted on Succession.

5 Likes

There are some schools that offer elite merit programs with much tinier admission rates than Ivies.

https://www.stampsscholars.org/our-program/criteria-and-eligibility/

This is not a way to plan for college because it so selective, but is an option for stellar students looking to add reaches to their list.

“Financial need is not a consideration.”

3 Likes