<p>Albiangirl: A majority are not 2300 students at highly selective colleges (a good amount, sure, but a huge majority, no. Maybe upwards to 30-40%). Even then, they don’t necessarily have the work ethic that matches the caliber of the schools, which are sometimes at a completely different level than high school or often call on completely different skills than in high school. This is especially the case with STEM. Often, HS was about learning to a test which would test on very predictable and specific things, whereas the selective schools will often design exams or assignments that don’t do that and instead test things like “thinking” and “reasoning” (much more obscure ways of testing. Not SAT 1 level “reasoning” which can easily be predicted and gamed), which sometimes means “hard work” isn’t enough (especially if you were great at memorizing and algorithmic type of problem solving). You sometimes need the “creative” element, and this is often difficult for students coming from HS (especially many who were say good at HS/AP chemistry and biology. They are used to “knowing” and now they’re being told to interpret data or come with propositions for situations that they may not have been directly exposed to or to “derive” concepts not explicitly, and sometimes not even implicitly covered in class). Sometimes, a lot of it is adaptability which is hard to predict based on a multiple choice standardized test score. Doing well in HS was more about jumping through hoops and being an “obedient” learner, whereas if you join a rigorous curriculum at a selective school, those traits are not rewarded quite as much. You need to be curious, somewhat creative, and more accepting of ambiguity and obscurity, things not really stressed in most high schools. Given that, a school can perhaps admit lower SAT scores if they search for the sorts of traits that make make for a smooth transition into the sort of environment that values that. Now if all selective colleges were merely HS 2.0 (they aren’t), then sure, having statistically perfect students matters a lot. However, a 19-2000 student can probably hang at these schools if they have similar work ethic and levels of creativity.</p>
<p>I would just like to thank everyone for there advice! Yes, I did get rejected. And guess what? I didn’t shed a tear! Honestly, it’s their loss. I have a bright future in front of me and I’m excited to start college! My new first choice is University of Toronto and I’m excited to apply! Columbia lost a great student today, and one day maybe they’ll accept me into their law school, you never know!</p>
<p>Wait, how is it your first choice if your parents forced you to apply?</p>
<p>to the op, life goes on. I got deferred and then rejected from Columbia Law, which was my first choice for law school. i went somewhere else and have a 6 figure income these days. Maybe it would have been 7 had I gone to Columbia but I made out just fine. met some kids from Columbia law while in law school. they were bright but honestly, at least the ones i met were not brighter than me. so from one who has first hand gotten the thin envelope from Columbia, life truly goes on.</p>
<p>My parents didn’t force me, they pushed me. I didn’t want to apply because my credentials were low and I didn’t want to receive a rejection letter.</p>
<p>Toronto seems like a really cool city for a college student! Good luck with your other applications.</p>
<p>My oldest son had his heart set on Berkeley. I knew that as an out-of-state student his chance of acceptance was slim, and what was even worse was that even if he had gotten accepted, we could not have afforded out of state tuition. But he insisted on applying, so I let him. He did get rejected; however in the meantime he had discovered Tulane, applied, and was accepted into their Honors program with a sizable merit scholarship. By the time he attended the Honors weekend in New Orleans that April, he was in love with Tulane and Berkeley was a distant memory. He is now a 3Y in law school, also at Tulane, and loves his adopted city so much that he hopes to find a job there. He needed the kind of close-knit community and personal attention that Tulane provided him, and he has thrived there. You will find your niche, and will also thrive, I have no doubt. Best of luck!</p>
<p>Toronto native here saying hells yeah, go for it! That being said, don’t expect much of a sense of community. Over 50k undergrads kinda does that. But the city is world-class.</p>
<p>In August you posted a 30 Act, in sept you post a 29 Act. Honestly if you really want sound advice you need to be honest in your posts. Everyone can view history and if you inflate your numbers then emotionally your setting yourself up. The best way to accept rejection is to not stray to far outside your real stats.</p>
<p>Hey y’all when I applied to colleges, and this was a long time ago, I fell very much in love with Columbia. I did not get in because my GPA and SATs were pretty bad, but at the state school I ended up at I worked my butt off, got straight As, and transferred as a sophomore, and spent the happiest 3 years of my life. So there are second chances in life, and if there’s something you love and want in life if you pursue it relentlessly you may get it, but if you don’t even try you won’t. So don’t despair and don’t give up. Our President was a transfer student at Columbia, remember that. Life does not end when you don’t get into the college of your choice, it might actually begin. Ask yourself - how much do I want this? And am I the kind of person who will go out and get what they want? Do I really care, and can I do something about it?</p>
<p>@Bartleby007</p>
<p>That was totally unnecessary:((</p>
<p>@Saona63:
Based on your PM and your post above, I think you have misinterpreted the intent of my previous post. I apologize if it seemed as though the tone of my post was harsh.</p>
<p>I make no judgment at all on how college admissions officers choose to evaluate each applicant. Ethnicity plays an important role in how each and every application is assessed at private, top-tier colleges. In fact, ethnicity probably plays a larger role than socioeconomic status in college admissions…and I’m not sure how I feel about that. URM applicants with parents who make six-figure salaries (physicians, lawyers, judges, investment bankers, businessmen, etc.) have the opportunity to matriculate at private schools, hire private tutors, take expensive lessons in sports/arts, and attend expensive summer camps – all the things that come with affluence – and still have access to minority recruitment services (free plane tickets for college visits, merit-based scholarships earmarked for URM students, etc.). This is not an indictment of the system at all. It’s simply a plain statement of fact.</p>
<p>In your “chance” thread, you left out an important piece of info (arguably one of the most important), and then you went on to say that people here on CC think your son won’t be accepted at PYS and other highly selective schools. I pointed out that, had you included your son’s ethnicity, you would have received a more accurate prediction from the community here.</p>
<p>Your son seems like a smart, hard-working kid. I’m sure he’s going to do great at whatever college he ends up attending.</p>
<p>Please let us know if his admissions results diverge from what I/we have predicted. I’ve been helping high school kids navigate the college app process for many years now…and I would be more than a little surprised if your son didn’t secure acceptances from the most selective schools on his application list.</p>
<p>@Bartleby007
Since you chose to respond to my PM here, I’m going to respond here too and put an end to this conversation.</p>
<p>Thank you and I do accept your apology:) It was never my intent to leave out my son’s ethnicity. You see, I was raised not to expect anything from anybody unless you work for it. </p>
<p>My husband and I are both hispanics, from 2 different countries and background. Neither of us are college graduates yet we enjoy a comfortable life. A life that we both have worked very hard for it and nothing was given to us by being an URM. I honestly didn’t know what that meant till my son started his senior year, but still I thought I was at a disadvantage because we were minorities. </p>
<p>Both my children are american born, but because my husband and I aren’t and we never attended college there were a lot of things I missed guiding my son on.</p>
<p>Everything he’s done, he’s done it by himself. I just made sure he was an all around kid with a happy youth. Never I wanted him immerse on books alone, doing spelling bees competition or projects during the summer that was related to academics. For God’s sake, there’s a lot to life beyond books or work. </p>
<p>If being hispanic is to his advantage, I’ll take it:)</p>
<p>I do hope that any kid out there waiting for decisions know that there’s always light at the end of the tunnel. When a door closes another one opens. Good luck to everyone, God Bless and have a wonderful Christmas Season!!!</p>
<p>Bartleby…the tone of your post was harsh and lacking consideration and your irritation with the possibility (or reality) that some students get some advantages came through loud and clear. Your italicized sentences only added to the negative tone. Own it and apologize if you sincerely did not mean to offend that parent (though if one is honest, what would have been the point of the italicized comments?). Reading future posts out loud before clicking submit prevent a lot of misunderstanding. Yes, I follow my own advice and I am happy with this post, offensive or not.</p>
<p>To the OP … Sorry you did not get that admission offer but there is a whole world out there and other schools. For any student hoping to get into a dream school, don’t let one admissions committee discourage you. Not getting in does not mean you would not have been successful there. You will be a success wherever you go if you put the effort in. You know that. The world is yours with hard work and don’t let a rejection letter discourage you. Many people cannot handle rejection and failure so take this opportunity to learn how to handle both and move on to the next opportunity. Best wishes.</p>
<p>^Thank you, I thought the same. NEXT!!</p>
<p>OP, I got rejected from Columbia too, and it was my dream school in my dream city. 34 ACT, near-perfect GPA, 13 AP’s and (at least I thought) great essays. I really thought I had a decent chance, but I guess it’s just a crapshoot. Seriously. I’m not as down about it as I thought I would be. At least we can go for other top schools now, right? :P</p>
<p>I applied to three colleges, was already accepted at one due to PSAT score, and got into the other two. Because of the automatic acceptance at a decent state school, I wasn’t worried about getting into the two Ivies, and when I got into both, I was MUCH more nervous about making the right choice.</p>
<p>This:
“A 2000 SAT student who does all the assignments, readings, and attends all the lectures will likely outperform the party animal with the 2300 SAT.”</p>
<p>is 100% true.</p>
<p>This:
"While this may be true, highly selective colleges have a majority of students who have a 2300 SAT and a ferocious work ethic. If this was not true they never would have made it into these colleges in the first place. Students like this are extremely smart, ambitious and won’t let party life derail their futures. "</p>
<p>is BULLCRAP!!! A majority of students with SAT scores above 2300? Yeah right. Look at the Ivy League 50th percentile mark. Even at the MOST selective Ivies (HYPM), barely half are at 2300, and the point is not their 2300, the point is that many with 2300s were rejected.</p>
<p>Let alone the Ivy I went to had some very very serious partiers, most ended up graduating but in 6 years or so.</p>
<p>It is NOT true either that if you “barely got in” you will fail in college. I “barely got in” and was very happy with my B- (2.7) overall GPA in college. I learned a LOT, the campus and campus life was outstanding, and even if I did take 6 years (and put my parents even more in the poorhouse as well as myself), it would have been worth it.</p>
<p>In October of his freshman year, S-1 wrote to us: “If I could have known how happy I’d be here at my 2nd choice, it would have been my 1st choice all along.”</p>
<p>Does Columbia even send out rejection letters? Apparently to maximize their revenue from aspirational students, many schools only send letters to those accepted or wait listed. It is important to see higher education for what it is, big business. My advice is to look at what undergraduate institutions those you admire attended. Likely very few will have attended Ivy League or even very selective institutions.</p>
<p>I read “Bartleby”'s post and I didn’t feel offended by it. But then again a client puked on me yesterday and it was just okay.</p>
<p>A high school classmate of mine applied to Columbia and he thought he was a shoe-in. He got rejected for various reasons – one of them being lots of qualified applicants, like all these Ivies (except U. Penn) – and somehow he let it bother him for a DECADE after the fact. It was hard to call him up and predict rightly that within 5 minutes he was talking about how he didn’t want to go to Columbia, anyway. And it was hard to reason with him because he had walled himself off into a non-reality and then deliberately failed at various life pursuits, including keeping friends, because he was having himself a fine denial over it that lasted years. These days he is working I.T. and doing okay. </p>
<p>Don’t be this guy, OP. He could have done well at Columbia, or anywhere else (except Cal Tech, MIT, and the exceptionally selective school I went to) but it was as if he had lost his Heathcliff.</p>
<p>There is only one Highlander, but there are plenty of Heathcliffs.</p>