<p>I honestly think there should be a major reform in the admissions process, particularly affirmative action. Now don't get me wrong, affirmative action is a good premise, but it really is reverse descrimination. If a black male from a very bad area is given the "nod" in admissions why shouldn't a white male from the same area be given that same push. It should come down to AREA, not RACE. That's just my two cents... and please no one take offense to this. I don't mean to hurt anyones feelings, I just feel the current system is somewhat unfair, especially after reading something like that previous post.</p>
<p>I hate to be cynical, but I think that the conversation described by realdeal is true.</p>
<p>The adcom for our admit area came to speak at a local high school. He clearly stated, at least twice, "We are affirmative for minorities, legacies, and athletes." He actually said that twice, to an auditorium filled with parents and prospective students.</p>
<p>You could literally hear a thud as the hearts of all the brilliant and hard-working, yet white, middle-class, non-legacy, non-athlete kids fell to the floor.</p>
<p>hehe guys, don't get upset. I don't know what else to say. Yale does look beyond that...</p>
<p>I agree, chidimma. No, Yale isn't going to accept a white, middle-class kid with good test scores and nothing else going for them. However, even almost all of the applicants on this board have more than test scores going for them. Anyway, don't underestimate Yale. I think they know what they're doing.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but the stats from my son's high school don't fit with your "facts." Our high school is a very well-respected suburban public high school. Last year four students were accepted to Yale. Three of them were talented and bright middle class students and one was a minority. And none of them were athletes.</p>
<p>good- there is hope.</p>
<p>Yes, lindseylujh, I agree: I think that Yale knows what it's doing.</p>
<p>And btw, as some of you who have seen the few posts that I have written know, I am a parent of a Yale EA applicant and have been following the Yale posts. And I really have to say that you guys are sooooo much friendlier, funnier and more supportive than the writers on some of the other Ivy sites. Particularly one that is usually referred to by a nickname that is 4 letters beginning with P and ending with N. There was a really awful dialog going on there the other day and all I could think about was how much better all of you are. You're great kids and I hope my son gets to go to school with you!</p>
<p>aww, that's so nice, andi! does your son post on this board?</p>
<p>Well, no. I guess I feel somewhat silly posting here when he doesn't, but that's how it is. I first came on the site to ask a question about submitting a music tape and then started getting involved with reading all your posts. I love reading your discussions----even the really crazy ones. But I have told him that I've been on the forum because if he ever went on here and recogized my posts, which is possible since I've talked about him, and I hadn't let him know about it, I'd feel awful. He'd definitely fit right in with all of you though.</p>
<p>just one thing.... what is the Or game????</p>
<p>I see. lol that's funny (in a good way, of course). :)</p>
<p>The OR Game! okay, you pick two things. THIS or THAT? and we choose and set up another question. It's just a silly, addictive game that we play to pass the time. :)</p>
<p>In order to play the Or game, someone will give a pair of things to choose from.
EX: Chocolate or Vanilla</p>
<p>You've got to choose which one you like best, then create your own for the next poster to answer.</p>
<p>The "Or" game was established last year after the EA massacre. It began as like "Would you rather be put through a cheese grater or have all your limbs plucked out one by one"....kind of relating it to the EA massacre...then it got off track...and, well, here we are in 2004. I can only imagine how gruesome the Or game will become after December 15/16.</p>
<p>And yeah...College confidential is addictive.</p>
<p>That's for sure! It really is addictive.... and I'm supposed to be a grown-up!<br>
I hope that there isn't another EA massacre! Were you all following it when last year's CC'ers got massacred? That must have been so awful. I hope it doesn't happen again. Maybe it's good news that the applications at HP are up and Y is down. I was wondering if people read the Newsweek article that Yale was the "hot" Ivy and got scared away.
So at the end of the OR game do you make some sort of story out of it or is it just the fun/distraction of playing the game?</p>
<p>I don't think there will ever be an end to the OR Game........maybe if someone came up with a question that no one had an answer for, but that's impossible.....someone will always have an answer</p>
<p>Here are my "facts"</p>
<p>Facts from Yale Bulletin 4-2-2004
Class of 2008 1950 Total Admitted </p>
<pre><code> 1000 men
950 women
819 Minority (42%)
</code></pre>
<p>Facts from the Yale Herald 4-2-2004
Class of 2008 950 Legacy applications
314 Legacy admitted (16%)</p>
<pre><code> 55% Public School
45% Private and Parochial Schools
</code></pre>
<p>I remember the International Student number being 11% but I could not find it on the Yale Web site.
214 International (11%?)</p>
<p>There are 35 intercollegiate sport teams. I have no idea what the recruiting numbers would be to replace seniors. Add to that orchestra etc. So you can do the math </p>
<pre><code> 819 Minority Status
314 Legacy Status
214 International
</code></pre>
<ul>
<li> x (unknown number of athletic and other extracuricular recruits)
= a very small piece of the pie</li>
</ul>
<p>There would be some overlap of legacy and minority admits. There would be no overlap of Minority and International admits </p>
<pre><code> 1950 Total Admits
- 1353 Special Status Admits(not counting athletes)
______
597 Non-Special Status Admits (30%) *
</code></pre>
<p>*The number 597 has to allow for not knowing the exact percentage of international students but it would not go down by more than 3%. That difference would probably be made up by the number of athletes which was unknown. </p>
<p>To know what your odds of admission are if you all into the non-special admit status, you have to guess out of all the kids applying to Yale, what number would fall into the Non-Special Status category. Then you could calculate your real chances of admission.But to refine your understanding a bit more, here is the break out of Class of 2004 Non-Special Status Admits by type of school.</p>
<pre><code> 298 Public School Admits (15%)
299 Private and Parochial School Admits (15%)
_______
597 (Based on a 50/50 split, the number is 55/45)
By sex
149 Female Public School Admits (7.5%)
149 Male Public School Admits (7.5%)
149 Female Private and Parochial School Admits (7.5%)
150 Male Private and Parochioal School Admits (7.5%)
_____
597 (Based on a 50/50 split)
</code></pre>
<p>If I can find it, I will post the article on the Striver system. As for the conversation, I actually left some things out because no one would believe me. I have only posted this to be realistic not inflammatory. As for four students being admitted from your school ,that's amazing as I believe it is more than were admitted from the State of Delaware. </p>
<p>What does this all mean? Your application is a bit like a lottery ticket. Yes, you have to play (apply) to win. But it is good to know the odds.</p>
<p>I think I was unclear on the breakdown of the 597 Non-Special Status Student Admits. The further breakdown by sex and school was based on the supposition of 50%/50% split. In terms of type of school, Yale 's overall
numbers were 55% public school/45% private and parochial school.I used 50/50 to simplify things. Sorry if it was confusing,I am a terrible proof reader.</p>
<p>realdeal- I guess your point is that Yale's admissions percentage is not 10% for all applicants and judging from your figures this is probably the case. Obviously this is a very complex issue that goes beyond just these numbers though. It's to all of society's benefit to educate people who haven't been born with every opportunity to succeed and a university will enrich itself by offering them admissions but I am sure /or can only hope/ that they are also working to maintain their standard of excellence. Why wouldn't they? It certainly doesn't do Yale any good to admit many applicants who can't succeed in a rigorous academic environment. These figures don't describe the economic backgrounds of the applicants. Personally I think that that should be more of a factor than race. In my S's high school class this year, of 440 kids (affluent New England suburban public school) there were six male merit semifinalists including my son. He was the only non-Asian. So I guess it's difficult for me to think of ethnicity being a factor in admissions. But when oneself or one's child's acceptance to Yale is at stake, it's very difficult to be objective. From the college's point of view, I can understand why they wouldn't want 1900 kids who have been produced from a cookie cutter. Yale does need special talents and abilities and points of view to build a balanced class.<br>
I would like to see that article you are referring to, so I hope you can find the link to it. I'm going to be pained as much as anyone if S doesn't get in but I'm going to try very hard to accept the colleges policy (of course I won't be so objective on Dec. 15!!)</p>
<p>Are first generations considered minorities by any chance? or in with one of those special groups?</p>