how to be accepted?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>Realdeal, those stats are very interesting. To clarify, when I said that I didn't think that what you posted was true, I do believe that the conversation took place, but I can't imagine that Yale actually follows a policy like that. I think we all understand that it is unbelievably tough for non-hooked applicants to get in, but some DO, and that's what gives us all hope.</p>

<p>Btw andi, I think that aside from passing the time, our "OR" game might be an unconscious way to raise our post count so that it's somewhat competitive with that 4 letter school you mentioned :p...</p>

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<p>yeah there are loads of other qualities even besides music and sports and the typical hooks etc. that they're looking for....writers, mathletes, linguists, environmentalists and more obscure skills such as being a cartoonist. Maybe someone whose recs describe a person with an amazing personality, who knows? I just can't believe that the admissions is THAT numbers driven, whatever the results may indicate. There's hope for everyone ( I hope! )</p>

<p>ivyboy I think that anyone who fills in a space on the application other than white is probably a minority?</p>

<p>bebere87 aha! Well make that game veeery long then!</p>

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<p>u guyzz seriously scare me wit all ure obsessions for stats
i no this way sound unbelievable and absurd to ya all
but THERE IS LIFE BEYOND STATS
and
there are chance beyond stats!
atleast i believ so!</p>

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<p>In response to andi's response to ivyboy (that's a mouthful), I do think that being a first generation gives you a little boost, but probably not full-on affirmative action. However, I'm pretty sure that minority consideration is only given to African Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Native Americans. For example, I hardly think that being Asian American would give you any sort of advantage, especially when I hear my asian friends complaining about "backward affirmative action" all the time :(</p>

<p>And andi, we definitely will have to do that! :p</p>

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<p>bebere87 ok, that makes sense. I personally never think of Asians as minorities because 25% of the high school is Asian, as are many of my friends, so I don't think of them as a minority anyway. Whereas I don't know too many Native Americans living in the greater Boston area. They may be here, but I don't happen to know any.</p>

<p>salsa- I believe that what most of us have been trying to say is that we don't think that the whole thing is absolutely all about stats- in response to a comment by one member regarding the issue.</p>

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<p>realdeal...
your statistical analysis reminds me of the old riddle that adds up all the days that a person devotes to eating, sleeping, going to school etc. The total always adds up to more than 365. </p>

<p>I suspect you've got a little bit of double counting going on yourself. Legacies, minorities, internationals, athletes, etc. are not all independent of each other. A legacy could be international, a minority could be an athlete, etc.</p>

<p>I do know, from personal experience with my S and some of his friends, that even a white, middle-class, non-legacy, non-athletic boy from NYC can get into Yale or any other top-notch school. Even some who require financial aid.</p>

<p>All the things you've described may be considered a hook. Legacy status can help, but even as you point out, the vast majority are being rejected. Minority status and athletics can help, too, but are no guarantee.</p>

<p>Being a stand out academically can get you in, too. And I'm not talking about grades and test scores. All the what-are-my-chances posts on this board are a waste of time. No one can predict your chances based on grades, test scores and a laundry list of activities.</p>

<p>The real question is this: Why should school X take me? And those kids who can answer it in a meaningful way, by talking passionately about their accomplishments, achievements, skills, talents, etc. are the ones who are most likely to get in. Applications and essays that address these points, backed up by stellar recommendations from teachers, mentors, etc. are what's necessary to get in.</p>

<p>As you noted, about 20,000 kids applied to Yale last year and fewer than 2,000 were accepted (9.9% to be precise). Ever ask yourself how many of those applicants had perfect boards? Or 1500 boards and a 95 average Or 1400 and 94? It obviously thousands more than they can possibly accept. So clearly, the decision comes down to other factors.</p>

<p>Do some kids get because they're legacies. I'm sure the answer is "yes". And some kids may get in because they're athletes. But if you hang out with the kids at these schools, realize immediately that the overwhelming majority provided a clear and compelling answer to the question: "Why should you take me?"</p>

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<p>well-said. :) i think you make an excellent point.</p>

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<p>nycdad, you are certainly more comforting than realdeal. :) thanks!</p>

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<p>There may be some double counting but I doubt if it is significant. As for the number of legacies being accepted not being significant, 314 out of 904 is an acceptance rate of 30% which is three times the overall rate of acceptance. Which odds would you like for your child. Yes all the qualities you mentioned may help but the competition is very stiff for the non-hooked and there are alot of bright kids with great recs, great essays etc. With such a large number competing for so few spots it just isn't the case that it's that gem of an essay or great character that just jumps off the page at people. It's alot more arbitary than that. There is a great book , The Gatekeepers,that is a behind the scenes description of the college admission process. The truth is that admission staff are just like you or me, with their own flaws and prejudices. It would comforting to think that everything you read on college web sites is what happens. I have a friend who was in admissions at a very selective college so I'm not just blowing hot air. There is just a large amount of luck in who gets picked and who doesn't. You never know how admissions officers will read your app, what they will find irritating or enchanting. It isn'i a science. It's rather arbitrary and value laden.</p>

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<p>realdeal...
i agree with much of what you just said. The Gatekeepers is, indeed, a great book on the subject. And there's certainly a great deal of luck involved. I've spoken with adcoms, too. I mentioned to one that i realized that in any given year, the outcome could be different for the same student. He replied that it could be any given day, any given minute. He said that imagine if they've just admitted 2or 3 kids in a row...what are the chances that we'll admit the next one?</p>

<p>As for legacies, yes they're admitted at a higher percentage rate than others (I never said they weren't). So are people with perfect boards. Yet, most of both groups are rejected. My point is only that I believe very few of these admitted legacies have not demonstrated their qualifications for admission overall. (And, let's not ignore the possiblility that some legacies had perfect boards :) )</p>

<p>Anyway, I think you're original underlying point was that typical middle-class kids didn't have much chance. This is where I fundamentally disagree. It is true that average kids don't have much chance. And by average, I mean anyone who's applying that merely has good (even great) grades, test scores and a long list of activities.</p>

<p>Most, if not all of these kids, are wonderful. But by age 17 they have yet to truly distinguish themselves (horrors). I don't know about you, but I hadn't really achieved anything by that age, either.</p>

<p>The kids getting into the top-tier schools have done something to distinguish themselves and therefore aren't "average". But they may be middle class.</p>

<p>They may be a chess champion, math whiz, athlete or someone who's overcome significant adversity. And they figured out how to present themselves in such a way as to shine. There is some luck to this, but there is also some skill....another great book: Rock Hard Apps.</p>

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<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=9236%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=9236&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It looks as if the Amherst adcom concurs with realdeal :(</p>

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<p>realdeal, while I don't think I necessarily agree with you I feel that I have to tell you about a bit of news that I found out last night that weighs in toward your side of this discussion. I had mentioned earlier that 4 kids from our HS had gotten into Yale last year and that one was a minority and the other three seemed to be just "regular" outstandingly bright students. Well I learned that one of them is a direct descendent of a US President and that the family name has continued to be rather large at Yale. (won't mention name for privacy considerations, but trust me, it's true) This isn't encouraging.</p>

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<p>what I want to know is how many minorities applied for those 819 spots?</p>