<p>It seems today that all college does is manufacture dependent tools for the larger system. If one chooses to seek an independent field, it would take lots of time and money before this occurs, and even when it does, independence isnt guaranteed.</p>
<p>School has become the education force for employees and not the tool for the employers or owners. When people encourage others to "go back to school" or "finish getting your education" all I hear is, "finish learning how to become someones assistant" and not "finish learning how to become your own innovator.</p>
<p>So for those (or not) who fit into the category of the school thumping promoters, I give you one simply task. Name 3 (or more, preferably) college degrees that you can get that can lead to independent studies or careers.</p>
<p>With a doctorate degree this is possibly easier to do, but how about with a bachelors? Can any be named?</p>
<p>Associates?
Bachelors?
Masters?
Doctorate?</p>
<p>How many for each can be named.</p>
<p>Science is rarely an “independent” activity in a lot of ways. Especially given the cost of equipment needed today. You can have an independent career (not necessarily in science) without a degree – if you aren’t going to work for a corporation or a university or other organization, what is stopping you from just starting whatever “work” you want to do now? If no one has to hire you, then no one care about your credentials, right? How about developing mobile software applications? That is something you can do with no degree and not a lot of fancy equipment. If you leave the realm of science, you can go write a book or start a small business with no degree at all.</p>
<p>If you are going to do science that requires equipment and manpower, someone has to pay for that stuff. Grants, corporations, etc. – the money has to come from somewhere. It makes sense that those handing out the money should have some expectation that you have the educational background and experience to do something productive with the money – they aren’t just going to give it to you otherwise.</p>
<p>What exactly do you mean by “independent?” Self-employed? Intellectual freedom?</p>
<p>BA in lottery winning.</p>
<p>Understood. It would be nearly impossible to start up my own science business. The equipment is too expensive. </p>
<p>But what about those who dont want to venture off and do something else? Those who have a love for science? Those individuals who want to do science for the rest of their life but only want to research what they feel is necessary and not what the sponsors who are funding them tell them to research?</p>
<p>Please dont take what im saying the wrong way. I have no problem working with a team. But what we work on is my issue. If I could work with a team researching issues we all feel passionately about, and not issues our sponsors tell us to research knowing we all disagree with the project at hand but we do it so our funding doesnt get cut, that is my ideal. </p>
<p>I guess the alternative would be to find a company that has the same passions about science that I do. Not greedy biotech company that are only in it for a profit.</p>
<p>I have no problem working with or for someone, it is just that it doesnt seem many employees or employers share the same ideas that I do about life.
Albert Einstein had ideas that conflicted with the science world. Didnt he have to go independent to find evidence which changed the world? Of course he was funded but today funding isnt the same for creative thinking scientist like Einstein.</p>
<p>The reason there hasnt been another Einstein is because today funding just isnt the same. Unless you are working for the powers that be, you wont be doing much of anything.</p>
<p>I guess the question im asking is more rhetorical than anything. The answer lies more in miracles than plausibilities.</p>
<p>Of course if I wanted to write a book independently I probably wouldnt be asking this question. Starting a business is a good start but for those that do not want to do that, where are their alternatives?</p>
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</p>
<p>The person with the money gets to call the shots in scientific endeavors that require money. Which is one reason you need to practice communication and grant writing skills if you want to get funding! Or, as someone said above, win the lottery. Or marry someone really rich. </p>
<p>Theoretical physics and mathematics are actually activities that you can do in your head without a lot of expensive equipment. But if you want to get paid to just sit around and do that all day, you need to go down the doctorate path, and have some teaching responsibilities to go with it. Einstein actually came up with his ideas while working days in a patent office, I think – he wasn’t a 'funded scientist" spending all his time on it. So it isn’t funding that is stopping you from becoming the next Einstein…</p>
<p>“What exactly do you mean by “independent?” Self-employed? Intellectual freedom?”</p>
<p>Either.
A self employed scientist would be ideal but unrealistic without Batman’s money from Gotham. Equipment seems just too expensive. Not even sure if a business loan could take care of that. Unless you find a way to harness the power of functional equipment from very cheap materials such as wood, and other raw materials, this doesnt seem realistic. Im sure there have been scientists who have done just that, and invented great things. Not saying it isnt possible. If there is a will there is a way.</p>
<p>I guess my question lies more on the lines of independent thinking or intellectual freedom. What college degrees promote just this? Even if you get a doctorate you are still managing a group of scientist that study what your sponsors tell you to study. </p>
<p>What degree do you have to get to have the freedom to undertake your own projects, manage and dictate your own team, or study your own theories that you deem beneficial to society and not what the powers decide. A bachelors? Masters? Doctorate? Which one?</p>
<p>Intellectual freedom. Freedom to go against conventional ways of thinking.
Freedom to be funded for your own independent research or ideas.</p>
<p>Maybe not the next Einstein. What about those in Biology fields who need the equipment for their research? Microscopes, Labs, etc. I was just using Einstein as an example. But for other science fields which do require equipment and such, what is there to do?</p>
<p>And if going down the doctorate path is the way to independence, what about those that cant afford all of that schooling? What about those who can only afford bachelors level education? How could a scientist with only a bachelors degree ever seek to become independent?</p>
<p>Grants? Im guessing if you write well enough you can convince someone to give you a grant for whatever you want? Is that what you are saying? If so, then I guess that is a possibility.</p>
<p>Of course with a bachelors, getting a grant would mean little if you dont have doctorate degree education to know what your doing going independent. Unless of course you self study which is possible but experience still may be needed from a school setting.</p>
<p>In conclusion: There is no way to become independent?
Anyone?</p>
<p>Basic economics says you have to produce SOMETHING someone else wants in order to be able to earn a living. So just doing what you want… doesn’t pay. Tesla is an example of someone who made a ton of money doing something else, and now spends it on projects and inventions he wants to pursue. I would say the most “independent” way to pursue science if you don’t have it to start with or have a plan to make/win/marry a lot of money is to go through the hoops to earn a PhD and become a professor at a research university. That has some freedom (although even that requires funding grants to keep your lab going). And of course you have to teach as well. And lots of smart people would like this job, so the competition is fierce.</p>
<p>There is no free lunch… unless you invent or do something that the world wants to pay for, you can’t just go do what you want to do with your time. Although I know someone who is a tremendous natural mathematician who does it for fun and drives a cab… I guess he has a kind of freedom as well…</p>
<p>Let me put it this way – will you just pay me to go work on physics or astronomy problems I am interested in? I would much rather do that than my day job… I can give you an account to wire the money to if you are interested. No? Well, why should anyone do that for you?</p>
<p>Anyone can be an “independent science researcher.” The problem is that the very nature of science makes that a difficult scenario.</p>
<p>The classical image of a scientist cooped up in a laboratory by themself for months at a time, for the most part is not entirely true. Do working scientists spend a lot of time by themselves? Yes. But, they also have an entire faculty of colleagues that they can converse with, and bounce ideas off of. </p>
<p>If they run into a problem that involves an area that they aren’t entirely familiar with? Then they can contact a faculty member who happens to be an expert in that area. Most real science requires a lot of collaboration. The greatest scientific discoveries in history, generally speaking, have not been due to a single person. The development of quantum mechanics can be attributed to numerous people. Relativity is nearly always credited entirely to Einstein, but there were several other people that were responsible in big part for some of the fundamental ideas of relativity.</p>
<p>I think the better question is, why would you want to be an ‘independent’ science researcher?</p>
<p>Doing anything resembling “real” scientific research involves a lot of money. Unless you have the means to completely fund this research yourself, you are going to have to make some concessions in areas that play to the interests of sponsors.</p>
<p>I don’t think your perception of funding is entirely accurate. Federal agencies like NSF don’t usually tell scientists what to work on. Scientists can propose what they want, and then the agency evaluates how do-able and how important that work would be in deciding whether or not to fund it. But yes, it’s up to you to convincingly explain why they should care about your particular interest.</p>
<p>Back in the early days of science, scientists like Charles Darwin were usually independently wealthy, loaded with money that was saved up by their ancestors. That’s how they could afford to pay for or live off of what they do. Plus, the fact that the olden days didn’t require any high-tech, expensive gadgets. So, if you mean you want to be like Charles Darwin and be a “gentleman (or gentlewoman) scientist”, then you must be independently wealthy and fund your own work.</p>
<p>The catch is, you must establish yourself as a credible scientist.</p>