How to bring college costs down for everyone?

I didn’t say get rid of all administrators, but the number of administrators compared to professors and students has greatly increased over the last few decades.

https://www.usnews.com/education/articles/one-culprit-in-rising-college-costs

‘Part of the problem, Gillen says, is that some administrative growth appears to be "bureaucracy and bloat run amok.” Gregory Price, a business professor in the economics and finance department at the University of New Orleans in Louisiana, shares a similar view, saying that “increased bureaucratization” of higher ed has fueled cost increases and caused many people to question the value proposition of college.’

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Here is a description of a recently built dorm: https://housing.berkeley.edu/explore-housing-options/residence-halls/blackwell-hall/ . The size of the beds in the floor plan suggest that it is around 180 ft^2, so it is not like new dorms are always spacious.

But that may be spacious compared to the triple rooms in an older dorm: https://housing.berkeley.edu/explore-housing-options/residence-halls/unit-3/ (with measurements conveniently provided).

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The jail cells at Alcatraz seemed spacious compared to the dorm rooms I lived in for two years.

It isn’t practical to state that because this is a not a market in which a randomized, controlled, double-blinded study can be done, we can’t draw conclusions from the data that is associated. That’s what social science is, and unfortunately, it’s all we’ll have in this situation. Too many stakeholders benefit from the ever increasing cost of college COA and the increased lending by the federal government and that is why there is no ceiling on it.

There are quotes and references to this administrative bloat all over the place.

It’s also worked to being costs down in other industries that are not education and are facing uncertainty, as I said before, but discussing other industries as an example of how this works is probably off topic. You’ll have to research it on your own if you have questions.

And here’s another!

With that said, this thread’s intention was not to debate if costs should rise overall or not. Only a few posters seem intent on directing it to that.

The first few paragraphs of this article, which was written a few years ago, might explain why UC dorms look as they look. The scrutiny is just slowing the increase, though. It’s not stopping or even leading to bringing college costs down for everyone.

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Agreed. Also those administrators are often paid better than the professors and are typically provided healthcare another cost driver increasing much faster than inflation.

Some of us are in a situation where we’re aren’t eligible for FA, can’t be full pay without loans, are seeing merit go down, and tuition increased go up every year (without merit going up, and again not eligible for FA). My oldest started college in 2014, we’ve had 1/2/3 in college every year since, and will until 2026 (hopefully). There has been no reduction for us, just increases, all in public schools. I’m glad for those who really need a lot of need based aid are getting more, but it’s coming from somewhere.

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Big picture is that there has not been the political will in most states to increase educational funding whether K-12 or college. I am going to limit my comments to public school systems, because private colleges operate differently, and an affordable 4 year residential college experience at a private college is not necessary for anyone. Colleges in many other countries aren’t residential, some are only 3 years, and they have fine outcomes.

The first choice is to increase the piece of the pie going to education. Politicians can do that by re-allocating money or increasing taxes. I haven’t heard anyone on this thread advocate for increased taxes to bring down the cost of college, but that’s one obvious option.

But for some, including me, if we were going to increase taxes earmarked for education I would funnel that money to K-12 schools before CC and 4 year public colleges. CCs would be next (and some states have been able to offer free CC to all, which is great). For me, making a 4 year residential college experience more affordable would not be among my top educational goals.

Bottom line, if people want more affordable public college you have to be advocating for that, and electing officials who support that and have the political will to make that happen. Reallocate money, raise taxes, go to a 3 year model…all options.

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The whole article is quite interesting to read, and indeed to outline.

Somewhat buried in the middle is an extended, informative discussion of why administrative costs have risen relative to faculty costs. They attribute it to three main drivers.

One is increased regulatory compliance, examples being “the Clery Act, which requires campuses to report their crime activity; new Title IX regulations that govern the handling of sexual assault; and Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) requirements for providing educational records. . . . rules on teacher preparation programs[,] Net Price Calculator requirements [and] specific regulations for FAFSA verification. . . . [in the wake of the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting] case management services [and] threat assessment teams.”

The second is what they call the “arms race”, measures to attract potential students with more facilities, more study abroad programs, more extracurricular options, and so on.

The third is other expectations for increased services, like career assistance, mental health services, internship guidance, and so on. In this context, they note that more students entering today are first-generation, more are receiving Pell Grants, and more are international students, who may have greater need for such services. They also note that the role of performing these functions has increasingly been shifted from faculty to administrators.

That’s all very interesting, and obviously raises the question of whether we really we want to simply eliminate all this to reduce administrative costs. Indeed, I think there really isn’t a hard line between the second category “arms race” factors and the first and third factors. Many families care about issues like campus crime, sexual assaults, shooting threats, and mental health. Many families directly benefit from dedicated internship and career services. So even if suddenly none of this was required by regulation, I am not sure we can assume colleges would simply stop doing it.

OK, then wrapping this informative discussion there are basically three additional things: a discussion of an audit that criticized the Office of the President in the Cal system, a theory from an economics professor at Centre College in Kentucky that higher prices are a quality signal, and some rhetoric from a public-facing libertarian law professor using phrases like “administrative bloat” and “bureaucrats”.

I do think the discussion of the Office of the President case was useful. It wasn’t a lot of money in the greater scheme, but the basic point was that particular office seemed to be spending more than other similar state offices, and that states should audit state universities to monitor for such issues. That probably won’t do a lot to address overall higher education costs, but it is a fair point.

The theoretical point about price signaling quality is potentially interesting, but prima facie it seems to run into the problem that “full” cost of attendance and net cost of attendance are two different things. And from my perspective, while it is plausible that “full” cost of attendance amounts are being used in part for quality signaling (and I note at many private colleges, even “full” cost of attendance is heavily subsidized by other revenue sources, giving them a lot of freedom to determine exactly where to set that number), it also seems obvious to me there is a lot of more or less normal price competition when it comes to net cost of attendance. Like, colleges offer competing need-based aid, merit-based aid, and so on. So I am not sure this theory really applies to the price that matters, namely the price actually paid, namely net cost of attendance.

And then finally, I personally put no weight at all on the rhetoric used by the libertarian law professor. Not to be overly cynical, but that particular person has a well-known public brand, and while I am not suggesting he is insincere, getting some juicy quotes from him for an article is not really meaningful to me.

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Hey, I pointed out the need for higher taxes (and it’s unpopularity as a solution) two days ago on this thread! :wink:

Not surprised it got lost in the shuffle, as I said - not something there is a lot of political will for. :smiling_face:

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This is less true recently (meaning healthcare inflation has come way down, and actually was lower recently than general inflation). But this was certainly an important factor in the costs of many service-based industries in the 1980s, 90s, and 00s. And of course it also applied to healthcare benefits for faculty as well as administrators.

Perhaps a mod should move this to the political forum, or someone can start a new thread there. Because public education is government funded, making change regarding college costs is per se political.

Regarding that Forbes article, any article that talks about gross costs and completely ignores net costs is not sharing the whole picture, nor do they discuss how many initiatives at the college level are funded directly by donors, not the college. For example, many gym and athletic facilities are funded that way, including the ‘lazy rivers’ that people love to hate.

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This graph omits data for Parent Plus loans, but the point still stands- it’s student loans, and the funding goes to universities and colleges, both public and private. It would probably take a subpoena to get that data published anywhere.

Yes, that is a very important observation.

Just to elaborate briefly, net tuition is almost always treated as operating revenue, and so it is being used to help fund operating expenses, and those are dominated by things like employee salaries and contracted services.

Capital expenses like new facilities are funded out of different sources. And at least at many competitive colleges, a lot of that is from donor grants, either directly or indirectly through endowments.

And generally, it cannot be assumed the direct donations could just be redirected to lowering net cost of attendance instead (although nor can it be assumed that none could be redirected). Endowment funds would seem more flexible, but colleges will at least argue that long-term endowment management policies mean they don’t have total freedom in terms of how to spend endowments.

Anyway, very complex issue and I agree it is not helpful to lump in capital costs with operating costs.

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People are welcome to start a new thread in the PF about the politics of college costs but since that is a closed group, we won’t be moving this entire thread.

Someone would need to start a new thread with a different topic. The posts about how to get parents to pay more for undergrad degrees/taxes/donations/whatever is not in line with the topic of this thread.

Proves the point that this discussion is moot.

Undergrad schools report aggregate amounts for student loans and parent plus loans separately in their CDSs (virtually all 4 year colleges produce an annual CDS). No need for a subpoena.

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Agree on difference and importance between gross cost and net cost. I thought we would see a huge jump in costs between D20 and D23 just based on inflation but D23 is starting at the exact same net cost D20 did first year even though the schools they are attending cost about the same amount, gross.

D20’s cost have increased since her first year (the reality of merit aid not increasing even tho costs do), we are paying about a $6k difference and we expect the same to happen to D23’s expenses. But that means even though they started 3 years apart, net cost will probably be exactly the same or close enough to make no difference.

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This is simply not true, at least, not uniformly. If you are aware of a CSD that discloses this information, please post a link.

Sorry, which part is not true?

Section H1 in each school’s CDS shows student loan amounts on one line, parent loans on another. Some schools might not share that data, if they don’t, call and ask.

Here’s Northwestern’s from 2021-22

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