I’m closing the thread temporarily so users can read @lindagaf 's note above before they post. While some colleges may be test optional, on this site moderator instructions are not compliance optional. I deleted posts that ignored her message.
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I think your second point is very important. I think trying to make sure everyone has an affordable and high quality (in terms of actual education) college option is a worthy goal. Trying to make sure everyone has an affordable residential option, though–I am not sure that makes sense.
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@NiceUnparticularMan - you do realize that there are students who live in rural areas with no nearby commuter option? For example: the area I grew up in had a great cc (I went there) , but in order to get a 4 year degree one HAD to transfer and become a residential student.
I moved from that area decades ago but my nieces and nephew grew up there. And not only have the tuition costs for the cc soared, the residential public universities in that state have too. And there is also the cost of transportation, books, laptop etc. for these students. And even in my own extended family that was very difficult to afford.
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Of course.
This is part of why these sorts of things are hard. Some people will need at least a highly subsidized residential option in order to have “an affordable and high quality (in terms of actual education) college option”. Others will not need that to achieve the same goal.
So, if we guaranteed “everyone” a residential option, it would mean subsidizing that for some people who didn’t really need it. And without getting too specific, it is problematic politically when you are asking for funding for obviously over-inclusive subsidies.
So, “trying to make sure everyone has an affordable residential option” may not make sense.
But that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be good to provide that for some people.
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Doesn’t even have to be rural. My small City doesn’t have a commutable 4 year public option. We have a cc with limited offerings (though a good machining program) and a tiny non selective private. Last I looked, tution only was $37K.
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It doesn’t seem like too much to suggest every significant urban cluster should have at least one good quality and highly affordable community college.
And then all of those community colleges should feed into quality four-year public universities, assuming suitable qualifications, with robust needs based aid, including for residential costs as needed.
If that was the floor, I think we would be in pretty good shape. I get we would still need to deal with people living outside of commuting distance of urban clusters, but that could probably be done with dedicated programs at that point.
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In terms of FAFSA simplification and it’s effect on families, it’s important to understand that federal financial aid is limited, and it is therefore focused on providing assistance to the poorest students in order to help them as much as possible. There are some “winners” and some “losers” in every iteration of the FAFSA through the years. It’s impossible to make it otherwise, but the latest tweak is based on data collected by the Department of Education. They (and Congress, who worked with ED and ultimately approved the changes) believe that the changes are a step in the direction of helping those who need assistance the most. The changes don’t make things better for everyone, and they don’t bring overall college costs down. That’s not the job of federal aid. But I do agree that anything that will help bring college costs down is good. I’m just not prepared to speak to what those things would be.
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Online education is another option for some. There can be affordability issues there as well of course, but attending part-time can mitigate that for some. For those who might not think many are pursuing their degree online, here are the numbers.
Across all levels and all type of Title IV institutions, 29.7% attend fully online (28.2% if you back out for-profit colleges). Another 29.3% of students take some online courses.
For undergrads only attending 4 year Title IV colleges, 15.8% attend online only (14.0% if you back out for-profit colleges). Another 24.3% of undergrad students take some online courses.
See more details here: IPEDS
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Jon Boeckenstedt just did a deep dive in looking at the college attainment gap differences between urban and rural communities. Pretty interesting.
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There are also transportation issues: if we expect people to commute they need a way to get to the school. If they can’t afford a car (or can’t use one owned by family) . or there is no public transportation, what then?
As @ClassicMom98 points out, some small cities do not have viable 4 year options. The university I transferred to (after cc) was in a small city and it was/is the ONLY 4 year college there. It’s a medium size private school. It’s relatively affordable (for a private school) but tuition is higher than in state public. It doesn’t offer a lot of majors compared to large schools, so options are limited.
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The concept of no or very limited local college options seems to be called “education desert”:
https://www.thirdway.org/report/place-matters-a-closer-look-at-education-deserts
Note that even when there are local college options, some majors may be inaccessible because they are not offered at those local colleges.
Another factor that may limit access to local colleges is if they are too selective. For example, those living in northern Santa Barbara County or southern San Luis Obispo County but do not have the grades (from high school or community college) to get into UCSB or CPSLO may not have an in-state public four year option in commute range.
Here is an interesting tidbit. At least interesting to me. My wife and I graduated from an elite university in 1994. Our total loan payback including interest was about $65K. We paid it off in 7 years. Lots of sacrifices were made.
Now if we didn’t have those loans and had invested those funds and got a rate of return of 7%(nothing crazy) we would have had $150K a piece for each of my two children for college. That would have covered a fine state school.
But our parents couldn’t cover our costs for college. Through a ton of hard work by my kids getting scholarships and us being able to cashflow the first kid then second kid got a full ride neither kid will have loans for undergrad. Second kid has money in a 529 for a Masters. I hope when they have kids it might be easier on them. They should have a head start compared to us. I am sure their kids will need scholarships as well.
At the end of the day we are just trying to build some generational wealth. But with the cost of housing, medical/health and college it is hard to get ahead for future generations.
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That makes it easier for current and future generations to fall behind…
- Higher cost of housing (rental or purchased) – easier for low income people to become homeless.
- Higher cost of medical care – easier to go bankrupt from medical bills.
- Higher cost of college (and increasing credential creep) – easier to be in a lot of educational debt, or not to be able to start a career that requires a college (or professional school) education.
@Mwfan1921 thanks for posting that. Having grown up in a rural area this is of great interest to me. I never returned after college but visited my parents often (my siblings also never returned after college) as well as H’s family (who are still there).
What was not mentioned is that almost every guy I went to HS with who graduated from college left the area and did not return. Same for the majority of college educated women. There may have been some (many?) who wanted to return to the area (family, slow pace of life, low cost of living) but the lack of jobs there in general and the lack of jobs requiring higher education precluded that.
For example: for decades there were thriving factories there which paid a living wage. Those jobs left when the factories left for cheaper labor markets. But what a lot of people forget is that there were other jobs in those factories. My dad (and coincidentally my FIL) worked at one of the factories as an engineer. (Note: he did not have a degree but back when you could become an engineer via on the job training). There were several other engineers in his department and almost all had degrees. In addition, the factories had college educated employees working in finance/accounting, HR, marketing, etc. By the time I was in college the factories( and those jobs) were on their way out. My parents openly told my siblings and me that they did not expect us to return to live in that area.
I agree. But like a lot of good things, this requires significant investment by the community and - you guessed it will need to be paid for by taxes.
One more thing, I really value my 2 years at a residential college. It was not just the academics (they were good) but the exposure to people who were from different backgrounds, etc. It was , (for me) my first significant exposure to people who were significantly wealthier/poorer than my family, were from other states/countries, grew up in cities, practiced different faiths, were not the same race as me, etc. This was invaluable and that experience changed me significantly. I also met others who had never known a person raised in a rural area, so I brought that to them. Perhaps more exposure to “others” would go a long way toward mending the divide in our country.
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Colleges in general are more diverse than high schools or places where people grew up as kids and often move to after they graduate, since they tend to have much larger geographical areas that they draw from than high schools (even commuter-based colleges typically draw from larger geographical areas than high schools). Hence, diversity of students is a fact of life for most colleges, so colleges tend to want to make sure that they are welcoming to diverse (potential) students (i.e. diversity / equity / inclusion), at least for their marketing purposes.
Since opposition to diversity / equity / inclusion is now important in some areas of politics, it is not surprising that those on that side of politics now have a more negative view of colleges than they used to. People espousing such politics may not want their kids to get ideas from attending college that diversity / equity / inclusion may be good or acceptable.
Two solutions:
Reduce the cost of education by reducing staffing, particularly bloated administration payrolls. Reducing payroll is the most efficient way to cut expenses for most businesses, including labor-heavy industries like education.
Reduce the total amount of dollars in the federal budget available for student loans. Reducing the pool of available money will force the colleges to face the need to cut expenses.
I don’t see either of these things happening, and I can only surmise why, but that is how a business leader cuts costs. Look at what is happening in the tech industry right now.
Private businesses that accept and benefit from a lot of public money. Maybe they should start underwriting their own loans?
Of course other companies like some healthcare insurance companies are nonprofits but sure do make a lot of money and get some fantastic tax breaks.
Say what you want about Florida and Georgia schools but they do their best to make an education affordable.
One person’s bloated administrative payroll is someone else’s core priority.
How many parents post here asking which colleges do the best job providing support to kids with learning needs? severe food allergies? mental health issues? use a wheelchair and can’t navigate icy sidewalks?
You think having a team of psychologists and a supervising psychiatrist on staff is cheap? Should someone with a life-threatening food allergy just stay home instead of assuming that the dieticians and nutrition staff will help keep them safe? a kid with mobility issues should just get a degree from University of Phoenix?
I won’t even go into the number of professionals (risk management, legal counsel, etc.) required to handle the lawsuits from “My drunk kid fell off a balcony so we are suing the college”.
Not to mention the number of staff required for constant monitoring to assure the PETA folks who were picketing the President’s home that “no animals were harmed in the genetics lab”.
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And this attitude is why we can’t stop excessive inflation in college costs, let alone reduce college costs for every student.
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