How to counsel an undecided h.s. senior

Parents Forum
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<p>Does anyone have any ideas about how to counsel an undecided high school senior? S has some great scores and may be a recruited athlete... but he has NO IDEA what he wants to study. He even told me he'd like to double major in undecided and undeclared. I know that some of the schools he's looking at don't require him to declare until the end of freshman or even sophomore year. His eventual career goal might be the Law. </p>

<p>I have suggested, for those schools which seem particularly interested in his declaration, that he choose Math or a pure Science (Chemistry, Bio, etc). That way, he'll have a technical background on which to fall back should he eventually decide to study engineering, etc. If he might choose Philosophy (which he loves) or English, etc., he might really lose some time going back over basic coursework should he change his mind and want a more technical field.</p>

<p>Any ideas? How about some school specific ideas? Notre Dame? Penn? Princeton?</p>

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<p>Has he considered taking a gap year and using it to work a job or do volunteer work through Americorps or a similar program ? </p>

<p>My S, 19, did that last year and that helped him narrow his fields of interests and figure out what kind of college environment he wanted. He also learned a lot about what his strengths are and how they would fit into various careers. </p>

<p>Colleges look very favorably on students who have taken productive gap years because such students are likely to be more focused and mature than are most freshmen.</p>

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<p>Why declare now?? Help him find a school here he'll be academically challenged and socially comfortable and it may all sort itself out.</p>

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<p>northstarmom: what did your S do in his gap year? I have strongly considered that for my S - he actually asked if he could take a year off to fence (!!!), ala Mariel Zagunis (Notre Dame) who did that and went on to win the gold medal in women's sabre at the Olympics in 04. I am concerned about raising a "fencing bum." haha He and I looked into a Maryknoll program for him and other than its distinct lack of fencing, it looked like a great idea for him. One year in Central or South America or Africa, I think, with all different kinds of work available - a religious "Peace Corps" if you will.</p>

<p>Bethievt - you are right of course about the undeclared. I think I am worried that if his coursework doesn't have a clear focus, at the end of year 1 or 2, he might still just want to "take all the courses and decide when he's about 30, when I'm old." (his words)</p>

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<p>S lived at home while serving as an Americorps volunteer doing disaster assistance and working with kids. To make sure that S understood the importance of eventually qualifying for a job that could support him, S had to pay us rent ($50 a week) until he had committed to college by accepting an acceptance and placing a deposit. He also had to for gas for my car, which he used for work. S was also responsible for paying for things like his medical and dental expenses (He continued to be covered by our insurance), and he was responsible for paying for his college applications. </p>

<p>We gave him adult responsibilities and privileges. He didn't have a curfew, but was expected to let us know if he'd be home unusually late.</p>

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<p>fencersmother, most kids go into college without "a clear focus." Even many (most?) of those who do have a clear focus when they go in change their minds multiple times. And somehow every year, these kids end up graduating with particular majors. </p>

<p>I would suggest that he look at schools that aren't restrictive and allow students to change majors easily. Those are most usually found in smaller universities, in which you don't have to apply to a specific "school" but can just apply to Arts & Sciences. That way, he can try out various disciplines, decide what he's interested in, and not necessarily have to transfer once he's done it.</p>

<p>Remember, he's only 18. Why should he know what he wants to study? Nothing's carved in stone.</p>

<p>I would not push anyone into a technical career unless he really wants one. Let him figure it out for himself in college, which is where he should be making these decisions.</p>

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<p>and many kids change their minds a couple of times when they are in college anyway</p>

<p>if he gets locked into a "tracK' or whatever, and changes his mind, he may need to make up classes</p>

<p>so look at schools that do some "core" classes, or the like for freshman- a science, enlgish, social sciences, art, maybe a language</p>

<p>and after a year, I would be that something sparks in him and if not, so? </p>

<p>I wouldn't stress about it</p>

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<p>I agree with Chedva. I see no need for your son to have decided on what he wants to major in yet. He is only seventeen, I assume, which is quite young. While some know by that age, a large majority do not. Ask any adcom and they will tell you that the most popular major for incoming freshmen is "undecided." In my view, that is what college is for.....to explore many things and be exposed and then decide on a focus. There are many fields which a high school student has not yet had the chance to study to even know if he/she'd like the field. I think it can be helpful to have "some direction" without a focus.....in other words, there may be a couple fields of interest and there is no need to decide on just one but to find colleges that offer them in case those do become the ones the student may wish to pursue. I have a child who explored what area to go into while a junior/senior in high school and had some exposure, but not a lot, to architecture but it was not a subject studied in our high school. She thought about interest areas and strengths and contemplated that field and so picked schools that offered it but within a liberal arts context because she was NOT yet ready to commit to a BArch professional degree program as she had not truly studied the subject by age 17 to make that kind of commitment. I have another child who did commit to a field when applying directly to a professional degree program for college but that was because it had been a field she had been immersed in her entire life and so she could safely commit to it as it was a very solid passion and focused goal. </p>

<p>But many kids are like my first kid, who are not ready to commit to a major and why should they? College gives you a smorgesboard to discover subjects, many that are new to them, and then decide. It turns out that my D did go into architecture. I think it helps to have some "direction" and to explore some career fields and examine one's interests and strengths while a junior/senior in HS, but not have to make any firm commitments. They can look into fields of study and have some narrowed down possible list but then just find schools that offer those fields, particularly in liberal arts, that do not require a commitment upon applying as a freshman. This is very very very normal, and to be expected and can be a good thing when entering college. As Chedva points out, even kids who enter thinking they want to study a certain major, often change their minds once in school and having tried different courses. That really is a big part of undergraduate education.....exploring, achieving worldly knowledge, and narrowing a focus for concentration part way through the undergrad years.</p>

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<p>I got a clue to the puzzle when you said his eventual career could be: Law.</p>

<p>I like your son already. My Dad, brother, brother-in-law, cousin and best friend from college all went in to law.</p>

<p>Here are their undergraduate majors: History, English, Music, Economics (changed over from Math), French.</p>

<p>My S still holds out the possibility that if his acting career doesn't take off as he hopes, he might apply to Law school in his late 20's. He double majored in Theater and Music.</p>

<p>Of all fields, I think Law and Law Schools have the most progressive thought about undergraduate preparation. They want to see evidence of your ability to reason and write well, as measured on an LSAT test following a four-year undergraduate education. HOW you develop those skills is entirely up to you.</p>

<p>Some schools, such as Amherst, have undergraduate studies in a major called LJST (Law, Jurisprudence and Social Thought). My S spent many hours asking his uncle (a trained musician who applied to law school at age 30) what he thought of an LJST major. His college was crystal clear that this was not a pre-law major, but a vehicle to study topics concerning the law. He had heard that a few Law Schools prefer you not take an LJST major anyway...</p>

<p>His uncle's answer was smart, I thought. "If you're interested in studying those philosophic subjects about law because you're interested in them, then do so. You won't revisit them or even touch on such heady topics in Law School. But if you'd rather major in something else, anything from Classics to History to Theater...go ahead. It will prepare you equally well for Law School, where they'll teach you everything you need to know THERE to start practicing law."</p>

<p>My Dad laughed and said, "Not quite. The day I graduated Law School, I knew how to argue a case before the Supreme Court, but not where to file my first paper at the local courthouse."</p>

<p>Anyway, you get the idea. The best lawyers I know are people who simply love knowledge, learning, and have a passion for justice. What they choose to study as undergraduates should be what enthuses or inspires them, from Math to Music and everything inbetween.</p>

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<p>fencersmom,
Not at all sure it is what you are looking for but I have a friend with two undergrads at Texas A&M and both are on the fencing team. Both love the school.</p>

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<p>You might want to read the 'Parents, what was your major?' thread which is currently running. There are a lot of folks doing things other than what they majored in, and a lot of folks wishing they had followed their passion.</p>

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<p>I arrived at college thinking I'd major in history and just loathed the most history -like course I took. (It was really more a history of political theory.) I ended up in a major that prepared me very well for architecture grad school. It included courses in studio art, graphics, film and architectural history. I like architecture because it combines art, math, a knowledge of history and each time you have a new client you learn about their needs. (I'm currently working with a bunch of Italians designing a new restaurant.)</p>

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<p>I agree with everything everyone has said here about the undergraduate years being a time for exploration.</p>

<p>In addition, don't forget that if you son declares a strong interest in some particular field, then ad coms might start scanning his file for signs that he has demonstrated a particular interest in or talent for it. If he says he wants to major in a technical field but presents test scores and coursework that indicate that his talents lie elsewhere, it won't help him paint an outstanding picture in his application.</p>

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<p>We share your dilemma. For a good student/ fencer the options are limited if you want to the best of both (academic and fencing) worlds.</p>

<p>Those that should be on your short list along with my comments on their fencing programs:</p>

<p>Columbia: Extremely strong team fencing and convenient access to the best club fencing in the country (FC, NYAC, etc.)</p>

<p>Princeton: New yet proven coach, strong commitment to the fencing program, one hour train ride to NYC club fencing.</p>

<p>Notre Dame: A few fencing scholarships available, very strong commitment to the fencing program, very good coaching staff, but certainly not the Ivy environment.</p>

<p>Penn: I don't know enough about their program to comment, except that it bears looking into.</p>

<p>Harvard, Yale: I believe their fencing programs are a step or two behind Columbia's, but hey, they're Harvard and Yale.</p>

<p>Brown: Great school, weak fencing program.</p>

<p>You also might want to check out Vassar and Brandeis.</p>

<p>Penn State and Ohio State have great fencing, but they're not on our list because of the nature of the universities.</p>

<p>If he wants to go west, there's Stanford and UCSD.</p>

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<p>Pick a school that has lots of options. Another poster said to go small; my son, who is a sophomore in college and still undeclared, went BIG because he felt the school would have many majors to choose from. I think the USC people said the other day that the average undergraduate changes their major something like four times! (Don't quote me on this-its from memory) I think if he enjoys learning and is a recruited athlete, then he will have help at school finding his way and will probably enjoy figuring out his course of study once he is on campus. Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>fencersmom, Opting for a wide range of courses is the beauty of a true liberal arts education. Every day the cannon of knowledge gets wider and deeper -- in sciences, in humanities, in social studies -- you could fill up a course schedule 10 times over and still not scratch the surface. Many of my son's friends double-majored in apparently disparate fields like art history + chemistry, physics + philosophy, art studio + Japanese. And most of them intend to eventually get professional degrees or PhD's, after they've spent a few years exploring an equally wide range of career paths.</p>

<p>I would encourage your son to put his eventual major and career goals to the side and to concentrate on finding a college that fits his personality and preferences in size, environment and teaching style. I'm a fan of the smaller liberal arts college (having attended a mega-university myself) but the person he has to please is himself. </p>

<p>The three universities that you mention are wonderful choices. Take whatever unifying factor that draws him to these names and expand it to include some less selectives. If there is no common thread, then he should sit down and make a wish list. There are dozens colleges within reach of a talented, accomplished kid. He should be thinking about what kind environment and community appeals to him. </p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how he does.</p>