how to deal with sticky situation?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hi, I'm a senior in high school and I recently found a private college counselor and now I'm in a sticky situation with her.</p>

<p>She comes very highly recommended by other parents in my area. I called her to find out about what she does, get a feel of what kind of person she is, etc. SHe called back and we spent about 45 min talking. She basically thinks and talks really slow, and hates to be interrupted, so I ended up listening to her give me info about colege that I had already gathered from CC, like most colleges want 2-3 sat ii's, extracurriculars are important, stuff like that. I consider myself very informed about college admissions, since I've been a cc'er lurker for three years now. </p>

<p>So now (since she is experianced and is a very good college counselor and everyone else is full) Iwould like to work with her, BUT at the end of the call she decides that if she wants to work with me, I will be charged like $60 for this "initial" consultation. She never mentioned this initial consultation would be charged. I am far from rich and even getting a college counselor is tough for us, bu a necessity since my school GC is a very clueless guy. She says that it's only right I pay her for this, becuase she spent so much time giving me important info. but the thing is, I already knew it, and only listened to her talk becuase talks connected and slow and it'shard for me to get a word in. </p>

<p>how should I
1)confront her about this
2)ask if she could talk faster?? I don't believe she's doing it on purpose, tho.
3)say I won't pay the $60</p>

<p>i feel ripped off!
thanx!!!</p>

2

<p>I have several thoughts here. Also, I am a college counselor, as well as a parent, so you can take it for what it is worth...</p>

<p>First, was this call meant to be a call that was to inquire about her services or was it lined up ahead of time as a "consultation"? If this was your very first contact in which you were asking about services and so forth, I truly think it would be wrong of this counselor to charge you anything. I spend countless hours in emails or phone calls from many people inquiring about services, back and forth and for free. Once they line up services, then it is for a fee. But merely discussing counseling services or related questions or issues, is not for a fee. Many of these folks do not turn into clients. However, part of doing a service is being available for no fees regarding inquiries and good will of sorts. So, I am not clear if this was your initial contact with this person or if you both lined up an initial consultation which is like lining up a service, which is different. However, if it WAS the latter, where you lined up a consultation appointment, she should have made the fees known AHEAD of time. </p>

<p>Also, this woman says that IF you continue to do counseling with her, then this initial consultation will cost you $60. Does this mean if you do NOT sign on for counseling that the initial consultation was free? If so, this makes no sense to me. A consultation for fees should be a service whether or not you signed on for more or not. A consultation as an initial inquiry for no fees should be for no fee whether you signed on for more or not. </p>

<p>I also am unclear if you are signing on for a counseling "package" that includes certain things (in which case, she should apply that initial fee to the package fee) or if you are signing on for Hourly counseling. IF you are getting Hourly Counseling and also IF you wish to work with this person, YOU should really think it through because while you say she has a good reputation, which she very well might be great, your post implies that you didn't get that much out of it and she was charging you by the hour or minute and so it could be that such a service by the hour, MAY not be all that you are hoping it will be with this person. I would have some hesitation if that were the set up. A package with her may be better, given the nature of that some of the information wasn't new or helpful and she talked slowly and left too little time for your input. </p>

<p>I think if you don't sign up for services with her, and IF this was merely an initial inquiry and IF she did not tell the fees up front, you should not pay. However, if you choose to sign up and if it is for a package, you should ask to have that initial consultation fee applied to the package price. If you choose to sign up for some sort of hourly counseling, you can say that your initial inquiry was to ask about her services and based on your discussion, you wish to sign up so that initial inquiry was useful in getting to know her and her services but you were not informed there were any fees just to inquire and you don't wish to pay for something that was not made known as well as just to make initial contact. But if this call was a lined up "appointment", and if you opt to keep working with her, then, yes, her time for that appointment should be paid. </p>

<p>I just think you really ought to read over your own post because I infer a lot of hesitation on your end with this person....the making you pay a fee that was not told upfront, the requiring a fee to just make an inquiry (unless I read that wrong), the mode of the communication being all talk on her end and little on yours, the information she shared was not new or useful to you, and lastly, the way you say you HAVE to use her because every other counselor is booked up. I say, you do not HAVE to use her. You can either go it on your own with a lot of research, etc. or look into other services. For instance, there are counseling services that are not local and are done online. That is just one example. You don't have to "settle". I am not saying that this counselor is not good and she likely is very good if she has a good reputation, but it sounds like you are "settling" because that is the only person you have found to work with and you already have hesitations. Red flag goes up for me as to whether this is going to be what you are hoping it will be.</p>

<p>PS, just to be clear, I am NOT saying to NOT pay her because you found the information to not be new or that helpful because a fee should be paid if you lined up a service. The reasons I gave for not paying had nothing to do with how helpful it was or not but only if this was an initial INQUIRY as opposed to an actual counseling appointment where she was engaged to "counsel" you. The part where I mentioned how helpful or not she was, has more to do with your choice of whether to work with her, particularly under an hourly fee set up but a package may be a better option with her.</p>

3

<p>"
She comes very highly recommended by other parents in my area. I called her to find out about what she does, get a feel of what kind of person she is, etc. SHe called back and we spent about 45 min talking. She basically thinks and talks really slow, and hates to be interrupted, so I ended up listening to her give me info about colege that I had already gathered from CC, like most colleges want 2-3 sat ii's, extracurriculars are important, stuff like that. I consider myself very informed about college admissions, since I've been a cc'er lurker for three years now."</p>

<p>Just because someone is highly recommended doesn't mean that they are good. From what you have described, she doesn't seem very impressive.</p>

<p>I also think that if you use CC and college guides, you don't need to pay for a college counselor. There's loads of info here as well as in guidebooks like the ones put out by US News and Time Magazine. I think it would be a waste of info to pay for a college counselor.</p>

4

<p>It's hourly, and I had no idea it was an intial coversaiton that would be charged.</p>

<p>The reason I need a collegeoucnselor is that I have been sick during my junior year and the cuase is yet to be found. I have a special situation for which I need a colelge cousnelor with experiance dealing with these special cases. Lots of the national services don't have much experiance with it, andt he couselors are just trained by the company, but then again, i don't know much about it.</p>

<p>Can you
a)recommend some college counselors (those national ones you speak of?)
b) tell me how I should speak to the couselor regarding her making me pay.</p>

<p>She never told me it was an intital consultation, SHE called ME, not the other way around. (returning a message I left).</p>

<p>If I really do want to use her, HOw should I convey to her that maybe she could speak faster,etc, and I'm not going to pay her for this call she made?</p>

<p>thanx a ton</p>

5

<p>She needs to discuss costs up front or you're not obliged to pay (IMO). You stated you contacted her just to find out 'what she does' - this isn't a consultation - it's a description of the services she offers and should include what the costs will be.</p>

<p>You said she's a slow-talker. This isn't likely to change - it's just the way she speaks.</p>

<p>From your description, she doesn't sound like a good business-person (not covering costs up front) and isn't compatible with you (slow-talker, doesn't listen to you, isn't interactive).</p>

<p>I recommend foregoing a paid counselor altogether (you indicated you were quite informed from CC lurking) or finding another one.</p>

6

<p>OK...I'll stick my neck out. If you really can't deal with this counselor's "communication style" (talking slowly, etc), it is my humble opinion that you should not use her. If you feel you must have a counselor, see if there is someone else with whom you can relate better. BUT first really determine if you need this type of service and what exactly you wish the person to do for you. If all you need is a special circumstances letter, you might find your school counselor or administration can do this for you if you sit down and discuss this with them. In my experience, the best counselor recommendations are personal recommendations from other students who have worked with a specific private counselor. Honestly, however, if you have limited resources, you might want to reconsider the need for this service. Where I live, the costs for private college counseling are expensive.</p>

7

<p>Do not pay her and inform her that she should have let you know the 45 minute call was going to cost $60. Just from the way she handles her business (by not informing you a/b the cost upfront) she sounds like a joke.</p>

8

<p>I don't know if you are asking me or Northstarmom. I don't agree with Northstarmom that hiring a college counselor is a waste. Some have no need for one and manage GREAT on their own. For many, that's all that is needed. For others, for one reason or another, they need support and guidance through this process. Some, like yourself, may have special issues. Others may have parents who do not help. There are many reasons why some look to outside help to facilitiate the quagmire of college admissions. </p>

<p>-You asked if I could recommend some college counselors...."national", etc. ....I originally responded to your post to just help you with your quandry and give some advice since I am a college counselor and know how it works with some counselors and gave my perspective. I was and still am not responding to you to promote certain services. Since you ASKED, I don't wish to ignore your question. If you want assistance, I am a college counselor at College Confidential. We offer hourly counseling and also counseling packages that are unlimited help with every step of the college search and admissions process. You can read more about the services that CC provides here: <a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_counseling/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_counseling/index.htm&lt;/a> If you wish to ask me more about it, feel free to email me at <a href="mailto:susant@collegeconfidential.com">susant@collegeconfidential.com</a>. As always, asking about counseling doesn't cost any money. There are other counselors out there. When I was refering to online counseling, it is something I do, as do other counselors at CC, that's all. Research other counselors, of course. </p>

<p>-About talking to her about making you pay....well, clearly she called you, from returning a call you made to inquire about her services. You could say that you were unaware of any fees to merely discuss college counseling with her which you wanted to do in order to decide if you wanted to sign up. You do not wish to pay for that fee. You could even point out that she said you only have to pay that first $60 if you sign up for further counseling and would not have to pay if not signing on as a client. So, that implies that an initial inquiry about services is not for a fee in some cases. </p>

<p>However, you should say that you would like to contract for whatever services you pick and surely will pay for them by whatever method or arrangement she requires. But her call to you was never anything you were aware you were paying for. If she doesn't agree, perhaps you should be more picky as to whom you work with and choose not to sign up. Surely your parents (who I assume are paying for this?) should talk to her and agree or disagree as to what will be the services contracted for. Her call to you was not anything you contracted for. I can't imagine charging someone for the initial inquiry. </p>

<p>I would NOT suggest to her that she speak any faster. I think the initial inquiry/call was a chance for YOU to decide if this is someone you wish to work with or not. It should not have cost money. And in fact, there are some things, such as how she talks, given that you are doing an Hourly arrangement, that doesn't work well for you. Perhaps you should pick someone else. I am not suggesting me, but my advice was genuine to you and never meant to get into my services at CC. The services at CC are online and so the speed of our speech, doesn't come up. We are speedy in that we reply to all emails with a 24 hour turn around time. How fast we type or not, you'll never know, lol. </p>

<p>I think you ought to discuss this all with your parents. When lining up a service that is not a cheap thing, you should research all possibilities and make a decision to work with someone with whom you feel comfortable. Already you have some issues with this person over the fees....for what she did...wasn't up front, and she wasn't so helpful and since she is charging by the hour, you did not get enough out of the hour. With email correspondence, you have equal time. Counseling should be about YOU. In the initial phases, more should be coming from you, than the counselor because the counselor is trying to learn all about you. For instance, I have several new clients at the moment and they are completing extensive questionnaires about every aspect of their background, needs, interests, college preferences, etc. and I gather lots and lots of stuff about them and then prepare a report for them. After that, it is ongoing back and forth communication at whatever time of day works for the student and no appointments need to be lined up. Anyway, if you have some issues that need addressing in the college process, look into someone to help you with that and make sure that who you find is someone whose style works for you. You don't have to work with anyone just because someone else liked them, if that person doesn't click for you or if you don't like their business practices, etc. See what your parents say too, about this matter. If you do work with this counselor, I think your parents should negotiate for the fees and contract for services, then turn over the actual college counseling to you.</p>

9

<p>highheels - in this initial conversation, did you discuss your special situation and the particular type of assistance you need? If you brought it up, how did she respond? If you didn't have a chance to bring it up, I seriously doubt that this is the right counselor for you. Professional consultants who don't make their FIRST priority finding out the specific wants and needs of their clients are not likely at all to be good. </p>

<p>I'm not sure parents are allowed to recommend specific college counselors on this message board. Make sure you Private Message/email functions are enabled and some may be able to make recommendations to you.</p>

<p>Can you tell us what area of the country you are in? What schools you are targetting? How your grades, curriculum and scores stack up against those schools' profiles?</p>

<p>I join the chorus of parents here who believe you can do this without her services - maybe better - with a combination of what you already know and what parents here on cc can help you with. You would not believe the experience, knowledge, wisdom and caring you can find here.</p>

<p>There are parents here who have faced just about every possible complication in the admissions process with their kids - health, academic, legal, etc. You might find that you can get more experienced advice right here than anywhere else.</p>

<p>If you do believe you need a Private Counselor, I completely agree with soozievt that you would be wise to identify and select from some other than the one you have spoken with.</p>

10

<p>"The reason I need a collegeoucnselor is that I have been sick during my junior year and the cuase is yet to be found. I have a special situation for which I need a colelge cousnelor with experiance dealing with these special cases. "</p>

<p>I am unclear still about why you need a college counselor. Here's why I don't think you need one.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If what you're concerned about is relatively low junior year grades due to your illness, a letter from your guidance counselor explaining the problem can be included with your application. If you need help making sure that your GC writes an appropriate letter, there are plenty of knowledgeable people here who can provide guidance.</p></li>
<li><p>From what you've written, it looks like you're still sick, and therefore what may be of paramount importance when it comes to college is making sure that you attend a college that would provide good acess to excellent medical facilitities. This is not something that you need a college counselor's help with. It may be that you need to stay near home until your medical problem is diagnosed and treated. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>That way, you could rely on help from your family. Another possibility would be going to college in a place that has excellent medical facilities. I suggest that if you decide to go to college away from home while you continue to have health problems, you may wish to confine your college search to places that your parents could get to easily. That way, if you have medical problems and you need to go home or they need to come help you, they could easily get there. Going to college relatively close to home also would reduce your stress in that you'd not have to deal with things like extreme differences in climate, allergan, etc. that can happen when one goes to college a distance from home.</p>

<p>Anyway, I still don't see any indication that you need a college counselor.</p>

<p>You probably could get some good advice here if you provided some more info about yourself such as your stats, type of colleges you'd like to attend (religious/nonreligious; size, etc.) and what state you live in (as often in-state public institutions are the more affordable and most easy to predict in terms of admissions in that they tend to make admission decisions based on stats, not things like ECs and essays).</p>

11

<p>I tried to send you a PM with a specific name/reference but your box was full. Hopefully others have already given you the same name (which is well known to long-time CC regulars).</p>

<p>I agree that those who feel that this particular college counselor would be worse than no counselor at all. I'm not sure that you need a counselor, but to the extent you do -- you need someone who will be direct about communications and will listen to your needs before she starts talking. Keep in mind that most parents and families don't know about CC and so they may be very willing to pay this counselor for her "valuable information" -- but if all she did was tell you, s..l..o..w..l..y, stuff that you alread know, then her knowledge is not valuable to you and should not be paid for. If you work with her you will find yourself getting charged for more stuff that you already know, and your frustration level will increase.</p>

<p>I did not work with college counselors with my kids and I am quite confident that everything I needed to know was readily available or on line. CC is wonderful because even when you don't know something, all you have to do is start a thread in the Parents area or the areas for the specific schools you are interested in and someone is bound to come along and tell you. There are a lot of parents here who have kids with various disabilities or medical issues, and they may be very knowledgeable in how to handle your particular problems.</p>

<p>There is NO specific educational requirement to be a college admissions counselor - any one who thinks they can do it can simply announce that they are in business and start taking clients. Of course many counselors do have extensive experience, training and credentials -- and I am sure that those that are well-qualified aren't too happy when they have to compete with those who don't. But again, the fact that this counselor is "well-recommended" is meaningless.</p>

<p>Also, along the way with my daughter, who had some different but unusual issues, I corresponded with a very well known and highly qualified admissions counselor, and quickly realized that she knew less than I did about issues such as testing accommodations and which colleges would accept ACT in lieu of SAT IIs. She also gave me very bad advice which we disregarded (i.e., that my daughter would no chance of admissions at the college that ended up accepting her, due to my d's relatively poor test scores). I don't fault the counselor -- my d. had an unusual profile and the counselor usually works with a different type of clientele. But that's precisely the point: unless a counselor has specific experience working with students with issues like yours, she may end up steering you wrong. In my own case, I had done enough research to see my way around the "expert" opinion -- you can do the same if you want.</p>

<p>If you do use a counselor, I think you would be much better off with one who gives you the specific help you need and charges ONLY for that. For example, if you need help finding colleges that will be supportive of your medical issues and will be flexible in evaluating your transcript and GPA in light of the medical proble... then you don't want to also be paying for information about which tests to take or help writing your essays. </p>

<p>You should also consider whether you would be better off working with a counselor who charges a package price for a certain level of services, or one who charges by the hour. I would suggest that you start by figuring out how much you are willing to pay and what you want or expect for that money. If your expectations are unrealistic, then you will find out soon enough -- but you will end up shopping more wisely if you have taken that first step. </p>

<p>And talk to SEVERAL counselors, including ones outside your area, to get a sense of what different ones charge for services. That will also help keep things in perspective, and protect you against being ripped off.</p>

12

<p>If this counselor is so unclear about when and how she bills, that alone may a reason not to use her. You have now been billed $60. Whether you pursue this issue or not is up to you. But you might end up being surprised by a bill well over that amount from subsequent meetings. It is not going to comfortable for you if you are counting $$ every moment you talk to her.<br>
If you care about what something costs, you need to know the pricing method, so that the money issue is out of the way. This not just for college counselors. Psychiatrists, attornies, plumbers, contractors, decorators all can charge a significant amount. You need to get the payment schedule well understood
before you start working with them.<br>
You now have several choices: you can call her and ask how her fee schedule works since you were surprised with the $60 charge, and see if she is clear about what she charges. Does she send bills? . Does she have a contract for you to sign clearly explaining future costs? Depending on how comfortable with her answer you can either pay her, say thank you , and find another counselor, wiser from the $60 lesson, or pay the $60 if you think you were the one who misunderstood and feel confident that future sessions will not have this problem. You can tell her that you do not believe you owe the money, she was not clear about the charges, no contract was signed. However that goes, you can continue with her or, again, leave her. You may end up having to fight the $60 charge, but I doubt she will get far on that issue especially if you are under 18, and your parents did not sign a contract. </p>

<p>In many ways, I look a college counselors as I do psychologists, accountants, attornies. If you are constantly counting up the charges, fearful of misunderstanding, you will not be getting your money's worth.</p>

13

<p>calmom, would you mind sending me the reference? your PM box is full.</p>

<p>thank you guys so much. (I've decided not to use her.)</p>

14

<p>Slightly different take:</p>

<p>While I agree that it is completely unprofessional to not inform a client of a fee structure ahead of time, I disagree that HighHeels does not need a college counselor.</p>

<p>While a letter attesting to her sickness will explain everything, certain colleges are much more likely than others to actually care about this information. I had a similar issue during my undergrad (some really bad illnesses) and my grades suffered. While I had an addendum which explained those issues, it was astonishing how little some schools cared and how much allowances other schools gave me. Until you've actually gone through a similar process, it's impossible to know which schools will be the ones to make allowances. It's also difficult to know which schools will provide support and resources once you are on campus. I had many professors who were very understanding; I had a few who were downright horrible, including one who marked me down for "skipping" class when I had surgery. </p>

<p>If you can find someone who specializes in this, go with her. Otherwise, as much as CC is fantastic, try to find some online forums devoted to the issue of kids with chronic ailments (because it's chronic until you get better) and college admissions for them.</p>

15

<p>highheels - I strongly second the nomination calmom has made. I was going to PM you with the same name. Although she may be long distance, working with her via email/phone will be a valuable experience. I also believe that the counselors here at CC are excellent and you may want to interview soozievt as well as the one calmom and I are mentioning, to see whose style and fee structure works for you. IF you need a counselor.</p>

16

<br>


<br>

<p>Sorry....but this letter does NOT have to be written by a PRIVATE college counselor.</p>

17

<p>In fact, the letter should NOT be written by a private counselor. It should be written by the regular GC and teachers should make reference to the illness when discussing grades/performance.<br>
Private counselors are not liked by adcoms and are supposed to be totally in the background.</p>

18

<p>And even IF you use a private counselor, you will still need to use your school counselor for processing your school transcripts at least.</p>

19

<p>I think Aries' comments may have been misinterpretted. I really do not think she is suggesting that a private counselor compose a letter to colleges which is a no no for sure. I think she was suggesting that using a counselor to help her navigate this process and give some advice may be beneficial. The GC is the one who would write on this student's behalf. As well, the student will need to enclose a statement that addresses the question: "Is there anything else you would like to tell the admissions committee?" I think the quote by Aries above has more to do with how this letter may be used by some colleges and not some others. I don't think she was suggesting that a private counselor ever write on the candidate's behalf. </p>

<p>I'll be the first to tell you that the CC forums are so helpful and for many many students and parents, they can navigate the college admissions process on their own and also use the forums as a resource for information to obtain terrific advice by others who have gone through this process. Some students may benefit from ongoing individualized assistance and reasons may vary for that need. The forum is not the same as that kind of ongoing one to one help, in most instances. Not all parents, for whatever reason, are knowledgeable, available, willing, supportive, etc. to help their child through this like so many parents ARE on CC. My daughters who have already gone through the college process used to tell me that they WISH their peers at school had someone like me to help them through it as most were clueless and so were their parents. Not all students and parents are of the sort we see on CC. Many really do need some help with it all. Many have special circumstances of one sort or another. </p>

<p>The OP MAY be able to do most of this process on her own and only need some Hourly counseling to select colleges and to handle the issues around the illness factor and then do the rest on her own. Hourly counseling works best for those who want or need help with a particular facet or two of the entire process, whereas a package of unlimited help through the entire process is more fitting for some people. I'm glad highheels will look into the various possibilities rather than just settling for someone who may not click with what her needs may be. The initial contact with that counselor should have been to discuss what the student was looking for with regard to counseling and a discussion of various options and fees and then going from there. No fees should have been involved in this stage. Once they got going, a lot of information gathering by the counselor should have been the case, not the counselor telling the student what to do just yet. </p>

<p>I agree with Marite that a private counselor should be in the background and have NO contact with the colleges. And of course, the school GC still plays a role in writing the reports to colleges and sending materials, etc. as thumper indicated.</p>

20

<p>You will get a lot of help from this site and may have no need to pay for a private counselor if you provide the following:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Info about what your medical problem is. This will allow you to get advice from parents whose kids may have been in similar situations. Consequently, you could find out how specific colleges responded to medically-related grade problems, and what colleges may be located in places that could provide you ongoing medical support.</p></li>
<li><p>What state you live in. This will allow people to make informed suggestions about in-state public universities (these often will provide one with the best scholarships) as well as private universities that may be convenient and generous.</p></li>
<li><p>What your stats are and how your grades were affected by your illness.</p></li>
<li><p>What you want out of your college experience including kind of campus environment, what you're considering majoring in.</p></li>
<li><p>How much your parents feel they can pay for your college education. Any other factors that may affect your finances such as having a parent who may have means, but may not be willing to fill out aid forms or give you any $ for college.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are first generation college , an underrepresented minority or have any ECs or things in your background that may make you particularly desireable to colleges.</p></li>
</ol>