How to Measure your Musical Abilities from a Distance

College Majors Music Major
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Greetings. I am a band dad with a totally STEM background. Son is age 15, sophomore, midwest. He is a rhythm section specialist - percussion, electric bass guitar. His high school music programs are relaxed, and he is among the best there. We wondered, “How good is he?”

I discovered one great tool - DCI drum corps. He began auditioning for snare and became informed. But he also became better. He has been cut from some great corps auditions. We have picked up instruction along the way. I feel like we can now see the way forward in that realm. We had to weed out our first private instructor once we realized he was not helping us move in a mainstream direction with snare.

We started thinking about college. He could envision a few options. One is jazz bass guitar performance. Percussion would also be on the table. His grades, rank, GPA are all very decent - rank 1/190, 3.97 unweighted, all college-prep with many honors/AP. After cursory study, a few ideas come to mind. For example, UNT COM Jazz program. I sent an email to UNT asking how to have the most productive campus visit so we can learn how to prepare over the next two years. Email reply is very inviting and responsive. All very good.

It turns out, there is no bass guitar corps where it is easy to track your nation-wide ranking among other corps. How does one stay informed about their ongoing level of musical achievement to know if they are on track for an awesome audition?

Thank you.

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UNT has a great summer Jazz Combo Workshop - registration is likely happening now. Rhythm section instrument numbers are capped so it is first come (and fully paid) first serve. He will get a better idea of how he fits into the mix out there but also of UNT itself. Great for some but the vibe is not perfect for everyone.

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I’m not sure where in the Midwest you are, but if you’re able to access high-level private instruction from someone who teaches in a high-level program, that would give you a clue as to where your son is at. And even then, it’s a crap shoot :wink:

But summer music camps are a great idea regardless, because your son will either realize there’s nothing he’d rather study more, or he’ll realize he’s not actually the type to eat/sleep/breath music. Either way, its useful information!

For percussion, University of Mchigan’s School of Music summer program would have been a good option, but due to construction, Mpulse is not back until the summer of 2016 – There is also a jazz institute, which also returns in 2016. Your son is young enough to still benefit n 2016 from the program.
http://www.music.umich.edu/special_programs/youth/mpulse/percussion.htm

I have a friend out east who is a pro percussionist and prof at another University who is very fond of the program at Umich, which is also my son’s alma mater, but that’s about the extend of my familiarity with percussion specifically. However, my brother-in-law who is also a pro musician and teacher has enrolled my niece and nephew in a corps so I suspect that was a good move on your part for your son :wink:

Best wishes on your journey!

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As far as passion for music, well, I am convinced enough. S gigs at a local church program, a local rock band (you know, that needs to get to a gig someday), and has 2 students of his own. He practices his instruments routinely, thinks about the results of his practice, and keeps a schedule book to organize his practice. He loves sleeping on gymnasium floors at DCI camps and playing snare for 12 hours a day.

We picked up a private percussion instructor from a Phantom Regiment visit, and that has been showing us how a ‘correct’ instructor can turn you around. In fact, it was both alarming and refreshing to learn that our previous instructor was building in some non-mainstream habits that we would not have known about without exposure to mainstream events (DCI auditions).

Last summer, S went to a week-long jazz camp and played bass guitar in a jazz combo at NIU. He recently accepted an invitation to return there for a jazz day next month. His private instructor is a grad student there. But we have been totally negligent in picking up the upright bass, and I think it is clear we need to take care of that by telling his instructor we are ready to include it. We suspect this instructor is good, and he always provides a nice stream of jazz theory to S.

My initial internet readings suggest that UNT has a higher ranked (better?) program. So the overall goal is to gather information to learn how to make the biggest strides for the best chances to enter the best programs. That is, who knows, if we are coasting along because he is already on track to enter NIU, we would rather be alerted to how far behind we are for UNT and be able to take action.

With his DCI auditions, we always hear “We don’t need the perfect player today; we need to perfect player at finals, so we are looking for students who can improve.” Well, we learned to ignore this statement after a few auditions. You pretty much have to come there already good. You might get one or two pieces of feedback like, “relax more.” But there is no time to really interact and learn what that comment meant. Very correctable misunderstandings of what the corps is looking for can lead to a cut. Is that what a college audition is like?

Luckily, S went to several drum corps and finally found one that is more at his level. If he wants, he can increase his chops and “move up” to other corps each year. I assume there is no analogy to this with music school where you go to a less ranked program, repair some earlier misunderstanding, and then go audition for a higher ranked school next year.

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It sounds like your son has several different “tracks” going so might be looking of a place that supports them all or need to narrow.

Is he into total percussion (i.e. concert snare, timpani, etc. in a symphonic sense) or just drum corps / drum line type ensembles? There is a poster on this forum who has a son who loves Eastman for both total percussion and the ability to do jazz. Schools that feature drum corps and marching band type things often have a different musical focus. My DS knows several people who have focused on drum line in college which becomes more of an all consuming activity like a varsity sport. If he really wants to go that route, unless he is the type of kid who doesn’t sleep, the focus on upright bass may be misplaced.

If he enjoys the focus on competition and moving up through ensembles he might really like UNT. Their Jazz Studies program has that type of vibe and also features more total percussion rather than “just” a drum set focus. The camp is fairly economical compared to some and would give him a good taste.

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Saintfan,

A narrowing event may have to come sometime. He believes it will all come down to bass guitar. Between drum set and bass guitar, he says bass guitar suits him better.

He is doing DCI snare right now because it offers a lot of musical focus and intensity outside of his high school. He has only been to a 1-week long summer jazz camp, and then the rest of the summer can be rather empty. DCI offers a potential summer full of hardship, touring, and performance. His high school does not teach strings, so he will be marching percussion to finish off high school with four years of band.

As far as bass guitar goes, he enjoys jazz, funk, blues, rock, and could tolerate playing classical music in a tuxedo if he had to for a time. I think your last paragraph is about right - moving up through ensembles.

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http://jazz.unt.edu/combo-workshop

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Thank you. I took several hours to read some classic posts here on CC; So You Want To Be a Music Major, and other fine threads about the balance of academics, practice time, and winning or participating in various competitions and groups.

The sage advice we have received just recently offline, if not also here, is to start with the upright bass and to at least go to a summer jazz camp - this year (soph-jr summer) in electric bass and next year (jr-sr summer) in upright bass. So, we’ll do that.

I have a question about upright bass experience. S has never used a bow or played the upright bass. I see a lot of accounts here of students playing their instruments for years at supportive high schools. Of all the reading and discussing done so far, we could place UNT jazz as our number 1 goal (cost, reputation). Now, I think if I has said Juilliard, one could express several concerns and ask how we plan to make up lots of lost ground and if S is a prodigy. Does this same question come to mind with UNT? We plan to make that our 2016 visit for upright bass workshop to get a better idea in person. Alternately, is there a list, range, or grouping of jazz COMs that one would consider “target” (not safety or reach) for a person with only the next 2 years to work on upright bass under private instruction? If there are any key pieces of info that could help get an idea running, just ask away. Thanks.

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For example, kmcmom13 mentioned “high-level” private instruction and “high-level” program. So there is a thought out there that there are levels. I just don’t know which programs are high.

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Your son could do the combo workshop on electric bass this year (if there is room - register ASAP if interested as piano, drum and bass spots fill fast). They also have a bass workshop earlier in the summer - that might wait until next year after he has more experience.

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I agree. Here is where we are “caught in transition” with prior ‘obligations’. His likely DCI schedule actually does have a week off mid-summer, but only from some unknown time on July 12 thru evening of July 19. The combo workshop at UNT is July 12 thru July 17. There is also a jazz camp at NIU (near us) July 12 thru July 17. NIU is another possible college choice, but maybe UNT is cheaper and and higher-ranked. So, we are just starting communication with the DCI corps to see exactly when camp breaks on the 12th and then we can call either jazz camp about late arrival and then talk to the corps about early dismissal. Yes, we plan to go to the bass workshop next summer (2016) at UNT as a first priority.

Another level question are NIU and UNT in the same range/level?

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Good morning. I just want to clarify what I meant by a “high-level” program as its not at all cut and dried, and is often more studio-specific than school-specific, which makes it even trickier and less useful as a term :wink:

In my comment, when I add the distinction of looking for evaluation from a high-level teacher at a high-level program, I kinda meant assessing same as follows, which can be difficult for parents without a musical background, but which musical students seem to “know” to some extent from exposure at camps, competitions, etc. :wink:

  1. does the program attract talented players nationally, or is it more “regional” in its student composition?
  2. is the program or its instructors well known/respected among musicians in its/his/her specific discipline?
  3. in the case of music school associated with unversities, does the music school itself seem to be well-supported as an institution…eg. Commitment to well-maintained facilities, robust programming, attractive to well-regarded professors, etc.?
  4. in terms of fit, does the school actually offer a program suited to the musician…this becomes germane with electric bass guitar…eg. Some jazz programs may or may not have an element suited to contemporary/pop proclivities.

No single aspect necessarily represents a high level program, nor a fit for the student musician, and there are lots of gems hidden away that aren’t necessarily well-known nationally.

Among jazz and band students/teachers in my area (Midwest/Michigan) UNT is well-known and regarded, as is Jacobs (Indiana). And of course, University of Michigan. Each is highly competitive in terms of auditions/admit. NIU is not well-known here, which doesn’t mean its not a great program but may mean its more regional in its nature. That is not to say it couldn’t have the best up and coming percussion department around, and my own ignorance could be at fault here.

The other reasons those three programs might be better known here in the Midwest is that they have robust programs with larger student bodies (though I think its safe to say those three are well-known on a national level too.)

So in my case, some of the most meaningful information i gleaned back when my son was a sophomore came from a prof who had an award-winning clinic at the regional university but also was a sessional studio instructor at Michigan. Another useful source of assessment was a summer camp prof who’d been at one time the head of the state band and orchestra association. Each had had a reliable amount of experience in a larger field to help assess my son’s suitability to programs.

That’s the kind of help I was thinking you’d benefit from - to an extent.

But at the end of the day, there just isn’t a formula for who will be successful where. Back in the day, my son’s side jazz ensemble was populated by some pretty talented peers, some of whom pursued music in college. Who got in where among those kids and other band friends was kind of fascinating to me, and not especially predictable.
(eg one got into Oberlin but not Michigan; one got into Northwestern, but not Michigan, my own son got into Michigan but had felt himself the weakest of the group…another one went entirely regional and he was the one I expected to go to the furthest afield because I pictured him at New School, etc.)

I hope that gves you a frame of reference.

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@GoForth I think you should visit UNT and have your son take a lesson with Lynn Seaton the bass professor. He can give your son some advice regarding his playing and how to continue. He is a really nice guy too.

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@saintfan The bass workshop at UNT is only for upright bass whereas the combo workshop is for either electric or upright.

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Yep - dad indicated that they wanted something for electric this year and upright next year so I was advocating for the combo this year

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:smiley: @saintfan‌

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I did write to Professor Seaton, somewhat wary that I am writing for my son to a college, but I did it anyway. He did recommend electric bass camp this summer while starting both upright bass and piano now, so that the upright bass workshop can be attended in 2016.

We just spoke in person with our jazz bass instructor tonight. He said he has in mind an great instructor who could help with the classical part of upright bass, while our current instructor continues on with jazz on electric and upright. We have to start the sub-journey of obtaining the upright bass.

The instructor also gave an assessment of where S skills would be skillwise after a certain amount of time relative to students at a nearby program, but I guess this is where the shroud of mystery is best applied since I leaked out so much other context already.

BTW, thank you. This board is awesome. I related to this thread especially: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/490070-just-starting-out.html#latest

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@GoForth Best to you and your son!

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As a DCI vet of two years I’d like to give you some advice on how to maximize your experience with DCI. first off, I’d like to point out that since your son is a sophomore, he will most likely not make most top 12 World Class corps(especially the top 8), unless he has absolutely amazing talent and is better than most of the line, or has an extensive history with the corps. This is simply due to age, and maturity level. Also keep in mind that most world class corps start move-ins in May, several weeks before high school ends. Finally, what the instructors say about wanting a teachable person with a good personality is absolutely true. The thing is that world class corps need people who have a high level of chops and skill; and can learn a new technique. World class is all about breaking old habits and learning the line’s technique so you can be as clean as possible. They don’t have time to build chops. On the other hand, open class corps are willing to build chops since they have a small pool of potential members and lower (but still high) expectations.

I’m assuming that since you found corps that is at your son’s level (congratulations!) and you have a tentative schedule, you have handled and conflicts with the end of school and move-ins. I see you are talking about taking a week break in July for a summer camp. You don’t want to do that. DCI is a very unique thing, and one of the things that makes it so special is that it effectively “stops the world” for 2-3 months. To everybody in the corps, the rest of the world ceases to exist and the only thing you know is whats happening with the corps. Also, it has a very sense effect on the members sense of time. Things that happened that morning feel like they happened days ago, things that happened a week ago feel like they happened months ago. a week is a very long time in drum corps. On a practical level, 7 days of rehearsal with no shows means you miss out on about 75+ hours of rehearsal. Most corps, at least every one I heard of, rehearses 12-13 hours a day on a standard rehearsal day. On top of that, mid to late July is the time that most corps take a week or so off of shows and make all the changes and fix every thing for august and finals week. Finally, it is also common for corps to give the members a “Free day” around this time. Free days are really special bonding days for the members that are a really memorable part of the experience.

The mind set of participating in a corps to get better and move on to an other corps is one of the worst mind sets you can have. Participate in the corps because you want to have the experience of being a member of that corps. If afterward you decide to move to another corps that’s fine, but going through the experience with the mind set that it’s “just a stepping stone”, or “working your way up”, dampens the whole experience and frankly, makes it harder. Drum Corps is a very challenging thing both physically and mentally. In their rookie year everyone hits a “wall”. Each persons wall is different, but at that point they make the decision to either keep going, or to quit. Everybody I’ve seen with the “stepping stone” mind frame, either changes their mind frame, or quits. Make it drum corps a more enjoyable experience by changing that mind frame now. The fact that it’s DCI, regardless of group or level, should be exciting enough.

I hope your son has a fantastic experience; not only in DCI but with music as a whole.

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That was a great post Compmajor. I’d seriously think of dropping the DCI thing if you son is seriously thinking of major in the bass. Take that time and become a better bass player. If the drumming is going to be just a side instrument for fun, let it be. DCI is a serious commitment and maybe your child could spend that time in a more beneficial way improving and attending bass camps. If percussion is where he will major then I’ll definately have more advice for you. Good luck…