<p>Bigtwix - the meaning of the term "hispanic" in the college admissions world is defined by usage. Portuguese people from Portugal in no way fit that term. Therefore, not claiming it does nothing for your argument.</p>
<p>Another way to look at this issue is to consider statistics. Typically, the number of Native Americans who enroll in top colleges does not come close to the number of them that colleges would like to see. Because of this, candidates like jag would not really be taking a spot from someone else. Also, jag's presence in the numbers could provide a more accurate view of progress made in the Native American population's quest for greater participation in higher education.</p>
<p>I love how certain people keep replying to this thread, trying to be negative and judge me, hahaha. And I'm pretty sure it's NOT that big of a deal that I misspelled mediocre, I think college admissions officers will look past my one spelling error :)</p>
<p>as for everyone else who was been more than helpful, thanks! Especially ErlindaP! I visited Dartmouth's website and it looks like a great school with an amazing Native American program! You rock :)</p>
<p>Cherokees have no blood quantum requirement at least the one on Oklahoma. as long as your ancestor or ancestors were listed on the Dawes rolls in 1908 you are eligible. The Band in North Carolina requires 1/8. BTW, most people that claim Cherokee and are not enrolled are usually laughed at by real Indians.</p>
<p>My ggggg-grandmother was an Native American princess. Should I apply for a Scholarship designed for Native Americans. I know nothing about Cherokees and don't care to but hey if it will get me some money after all like Spidey Girl said,("Another way to look at this issue is to consider statistics. Typically, the number of Native Americans who enroll in top colleges does not come close to the number of them that colleges would like to see. Because of this, candidates like jag would not really be taking a spot from someone else. Also, jag's presence in the numbers could provide a more accurate view of progress made in the Native American population's quest for greater participation in higher education.) I'm taking Spideys advice and get me some Indian money!!</p>
<p>Sincele - while you did cut and paste my words, the context you used them in does not match my intention or the tone of my original message. I think each person needs to proceed through the admissions process respectfully, honestly, and with integrity, and let adcoms decide what they need in assembling a freshman class.</p>
<p>Here is one thing which is an absolute guarantee: A person who was an African-American, Hispanic, Native-American bassoonist, AND who was adopted by Bill and Melinda Gates, with a 4.0 and 2400, would still be REJECTED if adcoms sniffed out evidence of cultural insensitivity, poor character, and a snarky, sarcastic approach to real issues.</p>
<p>Despite statistics, EC's, and race or ethnicity, every college (and every employer) wants to admit a person with fantastic character and a high EQ.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is extremely committed to both enrolling Native Americans and its honor code (they will not hesitate to toss you out for violation of it including misrepresentation in the application process). </p>
<p>Dartmouth is also an exclusive user of the Common Application where if you check the Native American box- they require your date of enrollment and tribal affiliation. If you do not add these things, they will not count you in the native american pool of candidates.</p>
<p>my application is due today
and i plan on keeping my ethnic background as "white"
but, i don't know. I'm so torn! hopefully my essay will help my chances</p>
<p>p.s. if anyone wants to edit my essay for me, let me knowwwwwwww</p>
<p>I don't know anything about tribal affiliations. Coming across all of this as a newcomer, it seems strange that in order to be considered as a Native American, you need to be officially signed up with a particular tribe. Imagine other races and ethnic groups having to prove themselves on paper that way. It just seems very unusual. I am surprised that other paperwork (historical documentation) wouldn't suffice. I wonder if anyone has ever tried that. Isn't it possible that a person could be very Native American in their heritage, yet as a free person decide not to be signed up with a tribe? Just thinking out loud here...</p>
<p>I am Irish (among other things) - for real. But I am not in any way affiliated with Irish culture or with Ireland (and that doesn't make me any less Irish). I am very proud of my heritage and the history of my Irish ancestors. While I am not underprivileged in any way, or a victim of ethnic discrimination, the tremendous pain and suffering of my Irish ancestors bears an effect on my family to this day. If Irish Americans were underrepresented on college campuses, and if for some reason adcoms were recruiting them to diversify their incoming classes. I would feel very comforable declaring myself as Irish-American. If that helped me in some way, then great. The big picture would be that colleges would be getting thier needs met (not that I would be given a leg-up in admission).</p>
<p>Jag, get out your photographs of your Native American family members and learn everything you can about them. All that they were is a part of you today, whether or not you look Native American, and whatever traditions your family chooses to celebrate. All of their suffering, and all of their hope, is in you. Don't let anyone discourage you from owning that.</p>
<p>You can't believe how incredibly complicated and sad the story of some of these tribes are. After the mid 1800s when most of the open warfare with the Indians was over, there were two more big, nation wide land grabs that effected almost all Indians but effected different tribes in different ways. The first one was in the late 1800s when the federal government attempted to break up the reservations by dividing the land. which had been held in common, among individual families. First of all the total amount of land divided was less than the original reservation and the remainder was often sold by the government to white farmers. Second- individual familes sometimes lost their lands for various reasons, not the least of which was they had no concept of individual land ownership. Or land ownership was a very recent concept imposed by the Europeans.</p>
<p>Next-In 1956 a Bill was passed in congress to try to assimilate Indians into the general population. If a tribe was very sucessful financially they could be considered ready to stop being a tribe-whether they wanted to or not. This happened to the Klamath Indians here in Oregon and it took them until just a few years ago to sucessfully go through the courts to regain their tribal status. Other tribes lost their tribal status because they had too few members or no longer had a tribal government. I did a job for the Klamath Tribe and their treatment by the US government was totally unbelievable. How different tribes responded to these kinds of events- I think- has had a big impact on how different tribes determine who is a member and why some tribes don't require much native blood, while others do. The individual tribes are still sovereign nations and that status is hugely important to them for a whole gamet of reasons-not the least of which is that as sovereign nations they can still hold their treaty rights. That is why ending tribal status for some tribes was such a total farce and tragedy-it opened the door for the government and unscrulous individiuals to trample over both individuals and whole groups of people. This is really complicated stuff and I am probably making mistakes here, but there are reasons for the colleges to be a little careful about who they consider to be an Indian. The different tribes have very different histories and that is reflected in how they determine membership. I think you are still considered an Indian, even without membership if you have 1/4 Indian heritage. There is something about this on the BIA website. </p>
<p>AS far as being Irish or Italian or African-American. I consider myself Italian but my Italian cousins consider me American. I have an African American friend who spends a lot of time in Ghana and they consider him American. Obviously these parts of our heritage are tremendously important to us and Spidey is right about claiming that, but the folks who are still in the old country or who never drifted from the tribe sometimes don't see it the very same way as we do.</p>
<p>The common app lets you check more than one ethnic background. As long as the applicant is honest I don't see a big problem with checking white and Native American. You could also check "other" and in the box provided indicate you are 1/8 or 1/16 of whatever tribe your family members belonged to. Then you would be completely honest about your background. This way the applicant is giving all the information about his background and just letting the colleges decide how they want to treat it.</p>
<p>i talked to an admissions officer at georgetown about this. I am 1/2 spanish and check both white and hispanic on all federal documents. GT asks you to check just one.
I ask the officer what to do and he said this
It's not what box you check, but the "feel" he gets from the application. Any one can check anything its about jis preception of the applicant</p>
<p>Erlinda - I had the exact same experience with my cousins in Ireland when I visited there for the first time. I was talking about being Irish, and they corrected me and told me that I wasn't Irish - I was American. It was pretty weird (I'll never forget the look on their faces - they were dead serious, and had absolutely no inclination to consider anyone who left Ireland as still Irish). I guess in a way we Americans are stuck somewhere in the middle of things.</p>
<p>So my wife is 1/16 Cherokee and has a "certificate of indian blood" from the Cherokee Nation. I look more like a native american than she does, what with her pale complexion and blue eyes. Her cultural ties are limited beyond simple self-identification. Her grandfather is somewhat more involved with the tribe.</p>
<p>To the best of my knowledge, our kids are also eligible for tribal membership, and I guess we will obtain CIB's for them.</p>
<p>So they'll be 1/32 Indian... And be able to document it. Will checking "native american" be frowned upon? Will they be seen by college admissions officers as scammers, playing the system?</p>
<p>Like I said to Jag. You need to talk to the tribe. Earlier in this thread someone provided the information for what constitutes being an Indian without having tribal affiliation. Different tribes have different enrollment requirements. The colleges don't decide who is an Indian, the individual tribes do. If you have been to a Pow Wow lately you will see lots of people who look like your wife, who are enrolled members. The certificate of Indian blood and the grandfather's continuing envolvement with the Cherokee Nation are the starting point for investigating becoming enrolled members. If your wife and kids are enrolled members, they are Indians in the Tribe's eyes and for all other purposes.</p>
<p>Maybe one way to think about this is to think about who is considered a Jew-if you are Orthodox practically the only way to be a Jew is if your mother is a Jew. The Reform Jews are much more lenient in who they consider to be a Jew. The tribes are the same way and if you have less than a certain amount of native blood the only way to be an Indian, as far as any benefits or bumps in college applications or the like, is to be an enrolled member of a tribe. Unless the colleges are trying to inflate their URM enrollment numbers which I'm sure is possible. Personally I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of either the colleges or individuals gaming the system this way. I think JAG had a good response by very honestly describing his heritage and letting the admissions people decide whether to consider it. I think if you are not enrolled and the adcoms get even a whiff of trying to game the system it would work against you.</p>
<p>These tribal affiliations are to be cherished for how they can broaden your perspective on the world, whether or not they help you get into college. Why not get more involved, I'm sure it would make your wife's grandfather very happy and you would all learn a lot.</p>
<p>i don't buy into the whole registration thing. I'm half Native American and proudly so. My skin is somewhat dark, I've been in Native American clubs since I was 8, I've gone to and helped out at many pow-wows, I'd had long hair that went to my waist for most of my life (yes, I'm male), I know a lot about my heritage (my room is full of books on it), and I speak Cherokee (Tsalagi). I don't, however, have any official "enrollment" forms, and never felt the need to. Does that mean I'm not Cherokee? Or that I'm not allowed to put on my app "Native American?" That's just stupid. I don't think I'm going to put anything at all--colleges should be evaluating me on my merits, not my ethnicity anyway.</p>
<p>Seems odd to me that a Tsalagi-speaking, pow-wow-going guy like yourself would have no interest in tribal membership. I mean if you've been a member of "native american clubs," since you were 8, then why wouldn't you want to be a member of the tribe?</p>
<p>I agree with the sentiment that colleges should be judging us on our merits alone, but that's just not the reality of the situation. And I'm not suggesting that anyone misrepresent the facts.</p>
<p>To return to my original question -- would correctly asserting and documenting tribal membership and 1/32 blood quantum (and perhaps checking "native american" as well as "caucasian") in an otherwise "lily-white" looking and culturally "white" college applicant be a negative or a positive with respect to college admissions? (Assume Ivy league and equivalent tier schools.)</p>
<p>I still think as long as the applicant is honest and doesn't just check NA when he or she is only a small percentage NA is fine. I mean, THEY are asking the question about ethnicity. I personally would check "white" and "NA" and in the "other" box I would explain "1/32, ______ tribe." Then you are being completely honest in giving your true background and letting the college decide what they want to do with the information.</p>
<p>phantasmagoric- I certainly respect your way of thinking and apparent culture, but why not register? Certainly you are an adult, maybe not though? Im going to assume you are from somewhere in the southwest as well since 1/2 blood quantum would be extremely high elsewhere. But why not register? The benefits from your tribe (unless it is non-recognized) would be great. You would also be involved in a sense of community, organization, and culture with those who have the same RARE blood you have. If you have gone to native clubs, pow wows, etc, have they been inter-tribal? I am somewhat puzzled at your situation. </p>
<p>Soccer_Dad- I advise you to do the same thing other posters have recommended. Tell them you are 1/32, let them do what they want.</p>
<p>Phantasmagoric-I think if you are half Native and a Native language speaker and participating in the culture, you are an Indian by anybody's definition and should be checking that box. And by the government's definition you are an Indian. </p>
<p>Everybody on a college campus gains by getting to know all kinds of people and sharing different points of view. That is the essence of what the college experience is all about, and you have something important to contribute with your ability to speak another language and deep experiences in your culture. I think the colleges will want to know about all of that because it is so much a part of who you are and it would be a mistake not to tell them because you would be leaving out something important about what your upbringing has taught you, and what you can contribute.</p>
<p>Where this thread got started was with the question of how to treat Indian heritage that is pretty remote and from a person with not much connection to the culture. That's where enrollment comes in. Some East Coast tribes were driven so far underground and assimilated so much that they are really searching for every member they can gather together to bring the tribe back together and revive the traditions. In those cases someone with not much native blood connection could get involved with the life of the tribe a little more easily than with some of the Western tribes. I'm from Pennsylvania and when I was a kid in the '50s the Lenni Lenape were described as no longer existing in Pennsylvania. Now they are in the process of reconstituting themselves as a tribe. They had been there all along, at least in the memories of their children and grandchildren and great grand children. My Mom's boss's grandmother was Lenni Lenape and they had some old native things that she had handed down through the family. Other than that he was just another white guy with a blond wife and blond kids. At that time there was no tribe or group of people to belong to and I think he considered himself white. I don't know if he has done anything about his tribal enrollment, but my hunch is that the Lenni Lenape would welcome him with open arms. They were driven so deep underground that every member they can find is probably treasured. I think this is one area where the idea of enrollment and who is an Indian gets complicated.</p>
<p>An example of another side of this complexity was a government job I was working on for a public housing project. I was the lead artist for some public art being done there, the idea was for me to mentor some URM artists so that they could learn to tackle these bigger, more lucrative commissions on their own. (they all have gone on to do this) This is a hard field to break into for anyone and if you don't have training in how to work the system it can be nearly impossible no matter how talented you are. It's jusat incredibly complicated to get something built in the public arena. An artist in town that I knew well for years with no Native identity that I was ever aware of, pulled out the "my Cherokee Great Great Grandmother" card and convinced the city to make her a member of the team. She has had every advatage of training etc that we were trying to help URM artists compensate for missing out on, with this mentorship program. I'm sure she really did have a Cherokee ancestor but she had no connection to the culture and had never described herself as native before. Although she was a friend and she did an excellent job, I always felt upset about how that came together because there were other URM candidates that could have also done a great job-who missed out on an opportunity to break into a new field. The two other team members were URMS and I was not the person who did the hiring, but it still felt weird because the only time she was ever an Indian was when she could get a boost by being one. I just don't know how to feel about that. I guess I think if you are a 1/32 of anything and have always thought of yourself as white,you should at least be willing to do the work of finding out what condition your tribe is in and how they look at enrollment, before you check the NA box to try to get an admissions boost. At least in the process of trying to get enrolled you might learn something about how things are going for the tribe your ancestor belonged to, right now. Otherwise folks should just check white and describe the connection in the space provided.</p>
<p>Soccer_Dad- it's not that i don't have any interest in tribal membership. I just don't think it's right to say I'm not considered NA unless I'm an official member. All my life, I've considered myself a member, and then all of the sudden I'm not a member just yet, and so I'm not supposed to put on my application that I'm NA? that's bull. (btw, I have a few friends who are adults who are 100% Cherokee and do not have official affiliation, though many of them do.)</p>
<p>natew6338- I certainly could reigster. I am not an adult (i'm applying to colleges now). My registration would be "pending" if I were to do so now, anyway, which some say seems shady on the application. Some of the organizations/events have been inter-tribal, but a few are not (Cherokee only).</p>
<p>ErlindaP- thanks for that. I might just include it, but I'm not sure I want to go on not knowing whether I got in because of my ethnicity or because of my merits.</p>