<p>lkf725, I'd say at least around a 3.85 - although there is no magic gpa that will guarantee acceptance. More important are research experience and publications.. I'd have to say almost anyone that I know who has been accepted to these schools have published some relevant work specific to what they'd like to specialize in grad school.</p>
<p>To answer your second question, yes, the elite schools highly prefer their own graduates. I think you can probably find posts from people who've attended these schools on this subject. I have seen #s as high as 30-40% of grad attendees of these eng'g schools coming from the same school in ugrad, depending on the department.</p>
<p>Boomer, what's up? I actually went to Purdue too, but for grad eng'g. Just wanted to add a few cents to this already good thread.</p>
<p>The toughest part about getting an A is just coming to grips as to what the prof concentrates on in a class, and then making sure you understand the hell out of those things. The best way to do this is comb through the notes, handouts, quizzes, cross check them with hw problems that have been assigned, and read the relevant sections of the textbook. After having some idea of whats going on, you can then tackle extra problems in the textbook, etc. After doing ALL of this, you'll probably have more than a few questions; and that's when you go to a study group/Prof office hours. </p>
<p>Study groups for tests only help after you have a decent enough knowledge, and have accumulated some questions after taking time studying yourself. It's almost never a good idea to study in a group if you're starting from scratch, and don't know any of the test material. Be very picky about who you study with as well - make sure that they not only do well academically, but that they don't b.s. and socialize excessively during a study session. Also however, while its preferable to work with someone with great grades, make sure this individual doesn't intimidate you so much (or is such a snob) that you're afraid to ask questions. I'm sure you've considered some of this already, but I figured it might help to explicitly write it all out.</p>
<p>Thing about larger schools like Purdue is that you need to be highly responsible for your academic career. You're not going to get a lot of individualized attention from Profs/TAs etc, and in all honesty, the instructors are all mediocre at BEST (believe me, their first priority is to research), so you're going to have to go out of your way to understand the material, and if you don't, seek help wherever you can.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What is a reasonable GPA for such applications coming from a state undergraduate engineering school (ie, non-elite)? Do grad schools favor their own undergrads?
<p>I don't know where everyone's pulling all these GPA numbers from, but a 3.5 IS reasonable for engineering. Of course other credentials play important roles as well. If you look at the acceptee's average GPA at top engineering grad schools, they are all around 3.5. I personally had a 3.5 overall from a "non-elite" undergrad program, whose average graduating GPA is 3.17.</p>
<p>Where did you end up for grad, morfinx? I infer from Tiberius' post that nothing you do at a non-elite undergrad engineering program can ever be "good enough", but somehow I find that hard to believe.</p>
<p>Not too shabby, morfinx! I know some very successful engineers from Georgia Tech. I hope that my son is not wasting his time working for his 4.0 at Pitt. He got accepted to more elite schools, but we just couldn't afford them since we didn't qualify for much/any financial aid.</p>
<p>Not attending an elite undergrad program certainly isn't the end of the world, far from it. And it's always a good idea to get as high of a GPA as possible. But as other posters previously alluded to, GPA isn't the only factor, GRE and recommendations are also very important.</p>
<p>4 of the phd students at the lab I do research in at Berkeley came from University of Colorado, which is not really a top tier engineering institute. Clearly going to a top 10 eng school helps with admissions, but it's not at all impossible to get in from another school.</p>
<p>As an engineer you will usually be assigned a ton of problem sets in conjunction with difficult lab reports every week. DON'T PROCRASTINATE or you'll find yourself stressed out cramming for an exam or struggling to finish an assignment you weren't prepared for. I'm not saying you have to study 5 hours a day but take the time to review your notes and brush up on things that were fuzzy to you.</p>
<p>A few hours a day will save time for the weekend or stress during before an exam.</p>
<ol>
<li>Don't be afraid to ask questions </li>
</ol>
<p>Some students feel that asking questions during a lecture is a sign of weakness or takes time away from class; I say bull crap. You are in that class to learn and if something isn't to clear to you ask the professor, thats what they are there for. Also office hours/TA recitations are WONDERFUL resources for academic or general questions--you'd be suprised from 2 hours one on one with a professor can achieve .</p>
<ol>
<li>Avoid memorizing--learn the concepts</li>
</ol>
<p>One mistake that students make is that they memorize certain problems or rules and therefore get stumped when a variation occurs. Instead strive to learn the fundamental concepts and then manipulate it to solve the problems. Most class of problems have a general algorithm, such as a FBD and by avoiding memorizing "special questions" you won't be stumped in an exam and you can handle much difficult problems.</p>
<p>With that said--use the solutions manual only to check or supplement your studies--DO NOT rely on it to merely copy homework otherwise you'll find yourself clueless about the course material and screwed for an exam.</p>
<ol>
<li>Go to class
Sounds mundane but it works. Courses cover material quickly and skipping a day or two can put you helplessly behind.</li>
</ol>
<p>I completely agree with the above suggestions, especially the one about learning the concepts. I see it all too often where people want to just learn how to solve a specific problem instead of learning the fundamentals.</p>
<p>Time management is easily the #1 reason people do not get good grades in engineering. People do not put in the time required to master the material.</p>
<p>I'm a junior, and this is the first time that I've felt confident about my study habits for my engineering classes (and my grades are showing it...) so I'll add my two cents and reiterate a few points.</p>
<p>1) ask if you're unsure about something on an assignment...I have a class where the TAs write the labs and homeworks, and although the prof looks them over, he doesn't catch all the mistakes. We sometimes have had up to 5 major errors in the assignments that make the problems impossible. You can waste a lot of time on impossible problems.</p>
<p>2) Triage appropriately...I had a course where every assignment skipped lowered the grade by .03%...but doing poorly on an exam would lower a grade by 10% or more.. Since 10>>.03, studying for an exam or doing a major lab is more important sometimes than doing the everyday homework assignments.</p>
<p>3) Go over problems from assignments...if the prof assigns them for homework, there's likely to be something important about them, so make sure you know how to do them by exam time even if you don't get them right on the hw.</p>
<p>4) don't get complacent by working in groups...Groups are great resources, and it's often helpful to bounce ideas off of other people. Too often though, it's easy to sit back and let others give you answers or tell you how to do things. Instead, try to be the one leading the group and showing others how to do things. I have found I learn really well by explaining things to others.</p>
<p>5) don't be afraid of being "that annoying kid" to the TAs (be a little more careful with the profs though :-) ) This is the first semester that I've asked the TAs to check into things, rewrite answer keys that had errors (and recorrect assignments), etc. The TAs probably hate me, but in one of the classes, I'm the only student in the recitation that actually has an A (and the class is not even in my major!). Talking to profs when you're concerned about term projects or labs is a really good idea. Try to use a good chain of command though...ask a friend in the class and a TA if available before you bother the prof</p>
<p>I'd say at the larger schools like the Ivy and MIT/Stanford... for engineering, it is probably VERY insane.</p>
<p>I am at Princeton and I have never made anything but an A. When I received a C in physics, I was VERY happy. I am hoping to pull it up to a C+ or B- by the end of the semester, but that will be very tough.</p>
<p>I'd have to say that I work my butt off 24/7 and have relatively LITTLE downtime. What sucks is that 2.5 GPA for my midterm is basically a very complete effort... However, I know a TON about chem/math/physics, so the content is not hard to understand as much as applying what you know to VERY TOUGH problems. On top of that, office hours really don't help for some of my classes.</p>
<p>But, if I went to a state school I most certainly would have a higher GPA. i think the workload here is very intense, but that is why most people at Princeton steer clear of BSE.</p>
<p>I dunno, it helps to have a healthy outlook on grades and homework. I try not to get stressed out by homework. If I haven't finished something and I feel like going to bed I will just turn it in incomplete and work out the rest of the problems at a later time at my leisure. The way I see it, homework is supposed to aid you in your learning, not stress you out like it's the end of the world. I've also found that I learn better when I think more about what I'm doing and why I'm doing it instead of just rushing to get it complete. It's worked for me pretty well. Usually when I stay up all night, it's because I think it's fun.</p>
<p>
[quote]
To answer your second question, yes, the elite schools highly prefer their own graduates. I think you can probably find posts from people who've attended these schools on this subject. I have seen #s as high as 30-40% of grad attendees of these eng'g schools coming from the same school in ugrad, depending on the department.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have to disagree with this and say that it depends on the school and department. For example, the Chemical Engineering department at Berkeley actually BANS its undergrads from attending its grad school:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Q. My undergraduate degree is in chemical engineering from the University of California, Berkeley. I have such happy, fond memories of the department that I cannot bear the thought of pursuing graduate studies away from Cal. Can I go to Berkeley for graduate school, too? </p>
<p>A. Although nearly all of the best chemical engineers are Berkeley graduates, this department, like most other top chemical engineering departments, feels strongly that its' undergraduates are better served by pursuing graduate studies in a new and different environment. Thus, unless you have obtained a degree elsewhere or have substantial industrial experience since you graduated from Berkeley, we will not admit you to the department for graduate work.
<p>for grad admissions, the most important thing to do is get on a prof's research staff as an undergrad. </p>
<p>when people say "publish papers", that usually means that you join some prof's lab, do grunt work, and get your name on the paper. It doesn't mean invent some new theory when you are 19.</p>
<p>the single most important thing for grad admissions, though, is fellowship funding. If you have a NSF or Hertz Foundation fellowship (or many others), you can pretty much go anywhere. No exagguration! Professors definetely do not mind free workers!</p>
<p>also during summers, do REU programs.</p>
<p>another good research credential to aim for in u-grad is the Goldwater Scholarship, given to sophs and juniors..use google.</p>
<p>to re-iterate, to get into top schools:</p>
<p>-High GPA (> 3.5)
-Join a prof's lab..u-grad research..get your name on same papers
-REU Programs (!!!!!!)
-Goldwater Scholarship
-NSF Fellowship, Hertz Fellowship, DOE Fellowship, DHS Fellowship</p>
<p>I don't think your u-grad institution matters all that much in terms of name brand. Academia is alot more understanding (say, vs finance, where name brand is everything) of the fact that you could be a late bloomer or someone that is smart financially (state school vs ivy is a big difference). However, your u-grad selection should definetely have an active research program, so you can get reco's from known researchers and also get that precious undergraduate research experience.</p>