<p>any tips besides studying my a$s off?</p>
<p>It is always best to get a TUTOR...Im 100% sure this will help you out a great deal.</p>
<p>a tutor? at the campus?</p>
<p>I took biology this semester and got a "A" on it, and got a "B" on General Chemistry, what i did was i found a great tutor and also put most of my time on just these two classes. But i got a 3.5 GPA for the the whole semester. You got to know how to manage your time in these classes. I have a whole semester waiting for me again for Gen Chem, Bio so im still working with my tutor and i finished both text books on these classes. So just keep working on it. Didn't take Orgo though.</p>
<p>Make sure you do all the homework, do all the old tests, always come to class, read ahead of time and make sure that on every test you take you're always above the curve.</p>
<p>Make note cards for orgo....it helps.....alot when u have to memorize reactions and all that other BS</p>
<p>My best advice for Orgo is to study everyday and keep up with lecture! My initial mistake was thinking that I could use the same study techniques I used in general chem (study for a couple of nights before each exam to ace it), and this got me a 64 on the first exam. For the rest of them I made sure to know the material (at least read over it) before the professor lectured on it and probably the main thing is to do problems! And don't just look at the answer and think you know it, do them on your own first, then check your answer. Doing problems for hours at a time got me my A in this class. Good luck!</p>
<p>This won't work for everybody, but one 'trick' that has recently been brought to my attention about OChem is not to take it until you've already been admitted to med-school. Then, you can take it without pressure because you know you're already admitted.</p>
<p>Now, don't get me wrong. You still have to study OChem in order to score decently on the MCAT. So I recommend taking time during the summer or the winter break and studying for the MCAT, including the OChem part. It really isn't all THAT hard to learn the OChem you need to score decently on the MCAT, provided you're willing to put in the study time. This way, you don't have to worry about labs or grubbing for grades or doing homework. You just study exactly what you need to know to do well on the MCAT, nothing more, nothing less.</p>
<p>It is true that you usually need to have taken OChem before you matriculate to med-school. But nothing says that you have to have taken it before you APPLY to med-school. If your MCAT score is good and your grades in other science classes are good, there is no reason why you can't defer a notoriously difficult weeder class like Ochem until after you've already applied. That way, you don't risk showing a bad grade to the med-school adcoms. </p>
<p>Now don't get me wrong. Obviously this trick won't work for everybody. In particular, it won't work well for those people who need the structure of a class in order to learn a subject. This 'trick' works best for those people who learn more simply through self-study than through a class, and especially if your school's premed classes don't teach you well. The truth is a lot of premed classes are not only harshly graded, but are also poorly taught such that you don't really learn very much by taking them. If this is the case at your school, you may be better off just learning the material yourself and deferring the actual classes until after you've already applied.</p>
<p>I'm sure med school admission offices aren't stupid and will find it fishy that you put off orgo until senior year. I have read that it is strongly suggested that you leave no more than a lab class outstanding by the time you enter senior year, most usually this will be physics lab.</p>
<p>i thought medical schools consider grades in OChem...somewhat...important in the decision making process. wouldn't it be weird if the grade wasn't there? i'm not sure the typical medical school applicant would have an organic chemistry grade missing from their transcript?</p>
<p>correct me if I'm wrong. :)</p>
<p>Like I said, if you do well on your biological section of your MCAT (where the OChem questions are), then that proves that you do know OChem, so what's the problem?</p>
<p>I have to admit that I can't take credit for this idea. This idea was advanced by the premed advisors of Stanford. Read myths 8 and 9. In fact, you may want to read the entire document.</p>
<p>Now, look, what I will say is that if you think you can get an A in OChem, then go for it. However, what I'm saying is that a lot of people don't get A's. In fact, many people get quite bad grades in OChem. That's because OChem tends to be a harsh weeder with exceedingly bad grade deflation. It's better to not have taken Ochem at all (and deferred it until after your application0 than to have taken it and gotten a bad grade.</p>
<p>sakky, what sequence would you recommend taking the premed courses during the four years of undergrad? would it be a good idea to double in the sciences each year, especially if this has been done since high school? thanks</p>
<p>That depends on what the rest of your schedule looks like. In general, I do not recommend taking more than 1 difficult science course per semester. Of course if you are actually going to major in science, this is clearly impossible.</p>
<p>I would not recommend deferring organic chem till your senior year. The other three subjects can be self-taught but organic chem is the one subject I do not think you can learn on your own. If you plan on teaching yourself organic chem be prepared to spend a summer on that subject alone. No way you can study for the MCAT and teach yourself organic chem simultaneously in one summer.</p>
<p>Well, look, I'll put it to you this way. The truth is, at many universities, lots of classes, including the premed classes, are poorly taught. So when you take these classes, you are "basically" teaching yourself in the sense that you're not really learning much from the lecture itself. I recall my brother telling me that at Caltech, the lectures were often times so poor that many students felt that they were often times better off not going to class at all and just staying in their rooms reading the book. That's de-facto self-study. Nor have I found this to be a Caltech-only phenomenom. Plenty of other OChem classes in many schools are very poorly taught, such that the students who actually learn the material well are the ones who know how to teach themselves. </p>
<p>Hence, there are plenty of OChem students who may be taking formal classes but who are, for all effective purposes, self-studying. So then it's just one more step beyond that to truly self-study. Hey, if you don't learn much from lecture anyway, as many people don't, then why not self-study your way through?</p>
<p>thanks for the pdf, uber informative!</p>
<p>yeah thanks so much for the pdf - it has made me a little more optimistic about my premed prospects</p>
<p>some parts of that pdf are clearly oversimplified and very much downplayed. He goes on and on about this guy who didnt take any premed courses at all....well if i could jump right into physical chemistry without taking general chem or orgo and then do well in it i would gladly do that......but then again what this guy did is clearly impossible for 99.9% of people and he is clearly a genius, yet the author passes off "taking higher level classes instead" as an easier, more interresting alternative when it will simply serve to decrease most people's GPAs and would be no easier than taking the intro courses which are far easier than any more advanced courses. Not to mention that all three sciences (and even math) build on previous knowledge so i dont really understand how anyone can even pass "physics of nuclear weapons" without the ability and knowledge to ace the introductory physics course that he replaced. It seems like some parts of this pdf should be taken with a grain of salt while other parts may be more worthwhile.</p>
<p>
[quote]
well if i could jump right into physical chemistry without taking general chem or orgo and then do well in it i would gladly do that
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First off, yeah you probably could. The truth is, PChem really doesn't have that much to do with General Chem and REALLY doesn't have anything to do with OChem. PChem is usually a combination of quantum mechanics and thermodynamics/statistical mechanics. You're not dealing with stoichiometries, reactions, and that sort of thing that is prevalent in GChem, and has basically nothing to do with OChem.</p>
<p>Secondly, I don't see the relevance anyway. PChem is not part of the premed sequence. Only Gchem and OChem are. </p>
<p>
[quote]
He goes on and on about this guy who didnt take any premed courses at all
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Read the document again. He never says that the guy never took ANY premed courses. He says that the guy didn't take the complete premed track. He basically mixed and matched. He took some of the regular premed courses. He then also took some of the advanced courses. </p>
<p>
[quote]
"taking higher level classes instead" as an easier, more interresting alternative when it will simply serve to decrease most people's GPAs and would be no easier than taking the intro courses which are far easier than any more advanced courses.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But that's the point - those intro classes are NOT far easier, in terms of grading. One of the "tricks" that you learn in college is that grading often times tends to get EASIER as you move up. This is becaues the weeders tend to be concentrated in the lower division. </p>
<p>Look, there's a big difference between the difficulty of the curriculum of a class and the difficulty of the GRADING of the class. A class whose material is relatively easy can nonetheless be an absolute killer when it comes to the grading. For example, at Berkeley, far and away the most notoriously scary weeder in chemical engineering is the first chemical engineering class. All the chemical engineers look back on the material now and say that the material in that intro class is pretty easy, compared to all the extremely complex advanced stuff that they encounter later. The problem was the GRADING. This intro class was basically the gateway weeder class, where the purpose was to determine which students were tough enough to stay in chemical engineering and which one were going to be barred from continuing in the major. Hence, the grading of the class was simply medieval. Something like close to half of the class got a D or an F. Yeah, the curriculum was relatively easy (for a ChemE class), but the grading was ridiculous. </p>
<p>I also know another guy who, while as an undergrad, took an advanced graduate-level course in chemical engineering. He admitted that much of the time he had no idea what was going on in the class at all. But he got an A anyway. That's because while the curriculum was extremely difficult, the GRADING was easy. Curriculum becomes harder as you move up, but the grading actually gets easier, such that in sum, it is often times actually easier to get higher grades in upper division classes. It is certainly easier than getting a good grade in a weeder.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Not to mention that all three sciences (and even math) build on previous knowledge so i dont really understand how anyone can even pass "physics of nuclear weapons" without the ability and knowledge to ace the introductory physics course that he replaced.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I said it before, I'll say it again. I think a lot of people vastly discount the value of self-study. I think this might be a problem caused by the secondary school system that spoonfeeds teaching to its students. The truth is, you really can learn a lot just by getting the textbook and reading it yourself in your spare time. In fact, often times, you can actually learn it BETTER by studying it yourself rather than have your school teach it to you. Again, I would point to the example of my brother who went to Caltech who admitted that he and many of his colleagues found Caltech teaching to be quite mediocre such that it was oten times more productive for them to skip lecture and instead just stay in their rooms and read the book. </p>
<p>The point is, self-study is an important tool not just if you're a premed, but throughout life. In life, you're not always going to have a class available to teach you something you want to know. Sometimes you will just have to borrow some books from the library and teach something to yourself. It's simply wrong to think that you can only learn things from a class. Do not discount the power of teaching things to yourself in your spare time.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Read the document again. He never says that the guy never took ANY premed courses. He says that the guy didn't take the complete premed track.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well i dont know what all those numbers stand for at stanford but from what i gather he didnt take Gchem, orgo or bio....so he took physics.....great</p>
<p>
[quote]
One of the "tricks" that you learn in college is that grading often times tends to get EASIER as you move up. This is becaues the weeders tend to be concentrated in the lower division.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>no....thats not a "trick" and thats not even close to being right. The only thing "weeder" courses do is take out people who clearly do not have the desire to go through the premed course or become doctors and by your logic wouldnt the absence of those people who got "weeded out" in earlier courses make the curve WORST and make it HARDER to get a better grade because you are competing against individuals who did well in those earlier courses and you no longer have those people who are consistently pulling 30% on their tests? The answer is clearly yes from a logical standpoint and its definately true from my experience. Let me give you myself as an example... I am a biomed engineering major (and premed) ....i took the easiest engineering physics, basically knew nothing because i had no HS background at all did terribly on the midterms and finals and was pulling Bs since i was doing about average because the class had alot of people who had not been "weeded out" yet. Same thing with Gchem....first semester was an easy A since there were people who were getting 9/25 on the midterms....those people clearly did not end up in any of my higher level courses and as a result i did infinitely better in my thermodynamics course last semester than i ever did in physics yet got a B- since the class avg was a staggering 80% since you no longer had those people that generously helped out the curve. So all in all, no, you are wrong, it isnt easier to get an A in a higher level course.</p>
<p>Finally I dont know how your tirade about self study has anything to do with what i posted. But just like you are telling people not to underestimate self study i think you shouldn't underestimate other forms of study like going to class and taking notes. I personally learn alot better by hearing things and writing them down myself....so i go to class.....also i dont exactly always trust myself to sit and open a book and study on a regular basis so class gives me this structured way of keeping up with the material. I'm glad that only studying from books worked for you and your brother, but everyone learns differently....there are people at ever college who you only see in class three times: on the first day, on the day of the midterm and on the day of the final.....some of those people do well and some do poorly....on the otherhand there are the people who show up to every class, sit in the front row and take diligent notes....again some of those people do very well and some do quite poorly.....you really cant generalize or give out some set formula on how to study, it is a very individual matter.</p>