A college can be both highly collaborative and not handing out As like candies. At some colleges, for example, students are encouraged to work collaboratively on most psets and projects, and these collaborative works contribute to students’ grades. However, a substantial portion of their grades is also based on individual exams and/or individual projects. Students can learn from doing collaborative work but the results of their learning are evaluated individually to a significant degree.
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We had two school tours where we had student tour guides say something to the effect of “the adults talk a good game about collaboration but it’s really cutthroat competitive”. The one guide was very candid (we were on a private tour) and she said it’s not just grades, but research opportunities and clubs. After those comments, we looked more closely on how students looked and acted around each other. Both of those schools had the most unhappy and stressed out looking students. For my D, that could have been the top school for her major and she still would have taken it off the list.
I also agree with the poster who said that this doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with grade deflation. Purdue is known for that but has a very, very collaborative culture.
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The big finance firms, like the big law firms, have a pipeline issue. Since these firms hire mostly (sometimes almost exclusively) from Ivy+ schools, then it logically follows that most people who climb the corporate ladder there also come from those schools.
Not sure you can draw conclusions about college name and career success from a skewed data set.
I also think the perception that high achieving kids that go to non-elite schools are fighting over scraps and hence not collaborative is incorrect. Collaborative vs cut-throat depends on the school culture, IMO.
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Collaborative vs. cut-throat depends on the STUDENT more than anything else! A student can approach the world as a zero sum game- your win is my loss- or as an exercise in everybody getting something of value. That’s a personality trait.
There are some people who can turn the most benign activities into something competitive, and people who can see a situation of alleged scarcity and make it work for everyone. Most people know- by HS- which kind of kid they have.
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Princeton today is indeed notably different. While Princeton is still at the bottom of the average GPA ranking among all Ivy League schools in the latest tabulation, the pre-med atmosphere today isn’t anything like those quoted stories. My son graduated from Princeton this past May as a pre-med, and his experience portrays a very different story, namely, that of highly collaborative environment. From time to time he did worry about those far advanced science students messing up the curve, but he never described his pre-med experience as being cut-throat.
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Ding ding ding. That is why (also, choice of major…) judging schools by outcomes is dumb, imo: people choose their paths.
Now – the famous/rich private schools might make it a smidge easier to get the first job, but even then a kid has to show initiative and do the things necessary to get an interview. But regardless of where someone gets the degree, they’re going to have to go out and make it happen.
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Curious – did you mean that this was at an Ivy or similar?
Some schools (and some firms) tend to have higher concentration of people with Type A personalities because of their selection criteria (e.g. emphasis/overemphasis on leaderships and/or sports). When an organization (school or company) has a disproportionate number of Type A personalities for a long period of time, it naturally develops a culture of competitiveness, in the absence of conscious discouragement.
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Sports?? Team sports are nothing if not collaborative and supportive!! Can’t function without mutual support and help.
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Two of my kids are Type A and are the LEAST competitive co-workers a person can have. They strive to do their personal best- period, full stop. And neither had sports or leadership in HS btw… there are other things Type A’s like to do besides be president of a club…
I really don’t understand the point you are making. And I know plenty of “Type B” personalities who are extremely competitive. They will undercut, engage in passive aggressive behavior, undermine… they don’t fit the Type A stereotype of go-getter- their affect is more chill- but they view everyone else’s success as a loss to their own standing.
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Among my parent friends (mostly Ivy and MIT grads) only one child has gone to a top 50 school and none have gone to a T20. Most are going to the state flagship or moderately selective LACs. Maybe we are a laid back bunch, but I haven’t heard anyone kvetching about sending their kids to less impressive schools than they attended. I think most of us are well aware that admissions are far, far more difficult than they were when we were applying to college and have adjusted our expectations accordingly.
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I take your point. Athletes in team sports have both competitive and collaborative traits.
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There’s a full spectrum of personalities between Type A and Type B. Some lean one way or the other, but not necessarily fully Type A or B. At some places though, one type or the other predominates. For example, on a Wall Street trading floor, you’ll most likely find Type A personalities.
And on the Wall Street Quant desk, you’ll likely find B personalities. And they sit near each other.
I’m not sure your generalization holds up. Plenty of Type B’s are competitive; plenty of Type A’s are not. This is not a helpful way of looking at the world, particularly as it pertains to college and whether a campus is competitive or not!!!
The most competitive friend I had in college ended up … getting a Master’s in Education. Not a particularly competitive field. But slaying imaginary windmills I’m sure…
Were these two schools those where the secondary admission to major was more competitive than at Purdue?
This thread has been closed temporarily and my be reopened at a later time.
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