Again, while important, personal anecdotes are just that.
Here is another one
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19559114#Comment_19559114
Does there have to be a “winner” between Brown and UC? Perhaps the reality is that they are both great, elite, and challenging schools that bring out the best in specific students. Given how different the school atmospheres and approaches are they shouldn’t be competing for the same students. It is possible however that both produce great graduates.
The Brown kids are on drugs while UC kids are suicidal is hyperbolic, convenient and most important meaningless.
Both schools can win without the other loosing.
@Cue7 : When we did our research two years ago, we focused on “premed friendly” schools. I have to say that my kid is not the kind who wants to study more than necessary to achieve its goal. ( @JHS , you are so right about this) There are so much in life than taking courses. We did receive a long list of admissions last year and as you can see we have never bragged about the “better” school we did not choose. But the “better” school has better financial aid. That definitely help us a bit. Most kids/parents come here because they don’t have a clue about what premed is about. Premed is about going to medical school. My kid refused to apply to any BS/MD program because (1) they are not good enough (yes, include PLME :-/ ) (2) my kid refused to stay in the same campus for more than 4 years. (make new friends, experience new environments, etc.)
@ccdad99 's anecdote (http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19559114#Comment_19559114) on the surface is very positive. But comments like below is a huge turn-off for my kid…
You might have heard that residency could drive a normal person crazy. College is the best time to relax and enjoy life. Actually medical school only has two years of classroom courses. The third year is the most important one since that is when student’s future residency potential is being evaluated. Since my kid is interested in some specific specialties, matching time is the ultimate competition. Burnout the biggest problem for premeds/doctors. Physicians have one the highest suicide rate. So the rigor of UChicago might help some students, it might cause others to burn out. If UChicago dropped its core curriculum and started increased its GPA, it would no longer be UChicago. I have no doubt many people love UChicago’s environments. From the matching results of UChicago’s med school, I am not even sure my kid would be applying since most of its graduates are going to primary cares.
If you go to any school, you never hear the name of their dean of admissions (who cares), but UChicago is the only place the dean of the admissions is running the whole show. That is tail wagging the dog. How can this happen to a great institution like UChicago?
"(https://careeradvancement.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/docs/ucis/ucihp/curricular-guidelines.pdf) –
3 quarters of biology with lab
3 quarters of general chemistry with lab
3 quarters of organic chemistry with lab
3 quarters of physics with lab
To compare apple with apple, I pull out Dartmouth’s premed requirement (http://www.dartmouth.edu/prehealth/preparation/preparing/prereqcourses.html)
Biology= 2 terms w/labs (although 3 is recommended for the MCAT preparation)
General Chemistry= 2 terms w/labs
Organic Chemistry= 2 terms w/labs"
I think Chicago’s course list will better prepare a premed for med school admission. If you look at the WashU Med School’s prerequisite list. (https://mdadmissions.wustl.edu/how-to-apply/requirements/)
A minimum of one year or equivalent advanced placement in
Biology
General or inorganic chemistry
Organic chemistry*
Physics
Calculus through integral and differential equations**
So if a kid follows Dartmouth’s recommendation, the door will be closed for WashU.
If you go to any school, you tend to hear the name of their dean of admissions a lot. People who have recently gone through the admission process successfully tend to have warm feelings about the admissions dean. If you are on CC, admissions deans are rock stars. Search “Fitzsimmons”. You should have seen the oceans of pixels devoted to MIT’s Marilee Jones on CC.
Chicago’s admissions dean gets lots of attention because, as even his detractors would admit, he’s freaking awesome. But no one thinks that he’s wagging any dogs. He’s doing the job that President Zimmer handed him (and that the Board of Trustees handed to Zimmer), and doing it sensationally well. Perhaps too well for people who are ambivalent about making Chicago more like Yale. I have a warm spot for him because (a) I like Yale, and (b) I met him more than 14 years and two jobs ago (for both of us), and was bowled over by his charm and substance.
“UChicago is the only place the dean of admission is running the whole show”.
This is the most ridiculous statement I have heard for a while in this forum. I have created a whole thread to point out that U of C is more just The College. James Nondorf is no doubt powerful WITHIN The College but he has exactly zero influence in Booth, Law School, Pritzker, SSA and of course all the Graduate Divisions. Even within The College, Dean Boyer has been molding The College since 1992. The Core was changed even before Nondorf arrived. Dean Boyer has been the most dominant voice for The College for the last 30 years.
For a parent whose kid didn’t even apply to U of C, please stop spilling nonsense on a school that you have no clue. Just reading CC does not entitle you to any special insight of this great institution.
@cared4321 : To answer OP’s original question, it looks like your daughter has taken the fist new MCAT exam. (March 2015) Could you share her preparation strategy? I know courses in school can’t prepare kids for MCAT and the Orgo questions are so easy that a “C” student in Orgo can easily answer them correctly. (unfortunately they won’t get the chances)
I’d say UCIHP provides an excellent support for Chicago premeds and they offer various programs. There were 3 or 4 four years ago and not they have 6. (https://careeradvancement.uchicago.edu/health/programs). The “Clinical Excellence Scholars” program organizes seminars and helps to arrange shadowing the volunteer opportunities for the premeds. My daughter found her specialty interest during this shadowing process. This program only opens to the 1st year kids, so make sure take advantage of it and apply early.
Chicago has variety of funding sources for premeds. My daughter got research funding for all three summers in college, each from a different source. So just open eyes and look for it, and you will get the $$.
She took the MCAT in April 2016. She didn’t take any prep class, just bot bunch of reference books and did tons of practices. Not sure about the orgo questions, but she said there were quite bit of biochem questions that were challenging.
@nrtlax33 - yeah, I don’t know if anyone would describe Chicago as “pre-med friendly” (or, really, friendly anything). Brown has been - for a very long time - a noticeably better incubator for future docs. Also, the smaller top LACs are good too.
But, Chicago is getting noticeably better - probably as a result of rising grades and better, more focused incoming classes.
Somewhat unrelated, while Nondorf doesn’t “rule” the entire U, I don’t know many Us that have their admissions dean ALSO serve as their career placement czar. Nondorf oversees two big, important offices, and he’s amazingly good, somehow, at getting the numbers to glow. The incoming and exiting stats of Chicago students look better now, more than ever.
I don’t know why @nrtlax33 loves Brown so much his kid didn’t get in and is at a UC, might want to show some love there.
Unfortunately for UChicago’s students, they have been forced out of campus to avoid “bad PR”. Do you think a school which does not either release its admissions statistics will be telling the truth about what happens to its students?
Obviously, UChicago denied the report. Folks, if your kid is going to UChicago and develop mental health issue, this is another risk you can’t ignore. I have said it many times – you need to know what you are getting yourself (your kid) into.
@85bears46 : According to https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2014/02/18/communitys-role-in-supporting-survivors-of-suicide/
If at any random time, there are seven students from UChicago at a mental hospital, do you think this is indicative of the fact that a large number of students are having mental issues? How many would you like to see to indicate that the number is high enough for you to recognize this is a problem?? :-/ :-/ With your strong math skill, could you estimate the number for us?
@nrtlax33 So out of a student body of 15,371 with College population of 5,978 (source:
https://registrar.uchicago.edu/sites/registrar.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/Spring2018-EOQ.pdf)
there may be 7 students facing major mental issue. Does that correspond to your statement “A large number of students seem to have mental issues there.” ?
This is beyond stupid. If at any random time there are 7 Brown students smoking a joint in class, does that mean the entire student population is on drug? What does random mean?
Maroon has the reputation of sensational headlines and anti-Administration. We have been reading Maroon before your kid was even born. It has as much credibility as using National Enquirer to justify your master thesis…
I repeat for people with reading comprehension issue: #34
“No one says that U of C has no mental health issues concerning students. A rigorous academic program in a cold city is not necessarily the most enjoyable IF you are not the right type of students.”
Do we thouroyghy understand the depth of this derangement syndrome yet?
I certainly hope that someone who wants to know how well UChicago prepares one to take the MCAT can find his/her answer somewhere. It certainly isn’t this thread. The question wasn’t what school does the best job at preparing one for the MCAT. This thread has really turned into a one person (who cherry picks information) against UChicago smear campaign. If you want to start a thread on the UChicago board titled Why I hate the University of Chicago, I’m sure we will still debate. But, the OP really isn’t getting any information that will help with their question.
This is a lie: “If at any random time, there are seven students from UChicago at a mental hospital, do you think this is indicative of the fact that a large number of students are having mental issues? How many would you like to see to indicate that the number is high enough for you to recognize this is a problem?? With your strong math skill, could you estimate the number for us?”
There are 7 students from UChicago at a mental hospital, exactly one time. Not “at any random time”. The first one proves inconclusiveness, the second one - the lie peddled by someone who has racist ideas about asians - pretends that this is conclusive because it happens all the time.
@CU123 It is really, isn’t it? He blatantly and intersperses a few words to twist facts into lies, and has no qualms about doing it.
(I am pretty sure he knows that we can spot those lies, since we are from UChicago, but he probably does not care)
“According to the National College Health Assessment, nearly 10% of [college] students reported serious thoughts of suicide in the past year and 1.6% reported a past-year suicide attempt.” http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/mandatory-leave-absence-college-students-suicidal-behaviors-real-story [with citation to report]
Interesting thing I learned from this same article by the psychiatrist quoted in the NBC piece: “Other[ colleges], such as Yale, require students who take a leave of absence to reapply to the college.”
This is a really serious issue. Selective colleges do tend to attract and admit students who may be harder on themselves, including in potentially destructive ways. I don’t know if Chicago has more of these, or if its environment makes things worse for such students. I don’t think @nrtlax33 (who has no connection to the University of Chicago, please note) knows either.
@BrianBoiler : I am one of the few posters here who actually gave out valuable information regarding PreMed and MCAT.
I recently read a thread started by a parent who asked how her former UChicago student who was out of school for several years due to mental issues can return to school. (you can easily find it) If my postings can avoid even just one of this kind of tragedy from happening, it is well worth it…
@85bears46 : According to https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2014/02/18/communitys-role-in-supporting-survivors-of-suicide/
You can’t accidentally expect to see 7 students from UChicago in a mental hospital at any time. This is not a TV drama. Northwestern has a lot more undergrads but only one was there. (don’t tell me Northwestern uses another hospital) Assuming they stay in the hospital for two weeks and then being expelled (as being reported), you have 26*7 = 182 per year (3% of undergrad). This is just tip of the iceberg. As someone already points out that before school shut down “Secret” on Facebook, there were 1500 “Like”. Are those kids bored enough to post everyday there complaining about their sufferings? If they seek help, they might be sent to mental hospital and then be expelled. What can they do?
If someone goes to an airport and being told that the flight run by UChicago Airways has a 3% chance of crashing, do you want to board the plane? I will switch to another airline.