How will music ECs look for HYPSM?

Applying to College
1

Basically, I have lots of music ECs, as well as non music ECs.

Here is my profile, would doing lots of music stuff kind of be hard for AOs at HYPSM to remember me if I list Electrical Engineering/CS/Stats as my interested majors for CS?

I guess it depends a lot on the AO, but then again you got a music dude applying for engineering/CS.

If you don’t want to read, to summarize i’m drum major, the top leader of the 200+ member marching band, and was top 3 on instrument in the all state band. I’m also involved with CS/Engineering stuff like programming lead in FTC, and volunteering at a CS org that reaches 10k people around the world.

Demographics (Very Anti-Hooked): Asian, Male, CS, Bay Area, Competitve Public High School, High Income (400k+)

Academics:

4.0 UW GPA, 4.57 Weighted (no rank but around top 1-2%)

AP CS A (5)

AP Chinese (5)

AP Calculus BC (5)

AP Physics 1 (5)

AP Physics 2 (5)

AP U.S History (5)

AP Statistics (5)

(senior year, not taken yet)

AP English Language

AP Government

AP Physics C E&M

AP Physics C Mechanics

1570 SAT (760 E, 800 M)

Extracurriculars:

Marching Band (Drum Major of 200+ member band 9-12) - (20 hrs / week - 18 weeks / year)

FTC Robotics (Programming Lead - 2nd at regionals, 9-12) - (7 hrs / week - 35 weeks / year)

Varsity Sports - (12 hrs / week - 12 weeks / year, 9-12), top ranked on team

Wind Band - (Principal Player, Section Leader, 9-12) - (2 hrs / week - 40 weeks / year) - time is for practicing, as its a school class

School Orchestra (Principal Player, Section Leader, 10-12) - (4 hrs / week - 20 weeks / year)

Jazz Ensemble (Principal Player, 11-12) - (2 hrs / week - 40 weeks / year) - time is for practicing, as its a school class

Volunteer at CS Organization (9-12, PVSA Gold Award, 250 hours) - helped grow org to reach 10k+ people around the world

Science Club (President, 9-12) - (2 hrs / week - 40 weeks / year) - grew club from 5 → 25 members, organized event with 60+ attendees

CS Club (President, 9-12) - (2 hrs / week - 40 weeks / year) - grew club from 10 → 20+ active members

Tech Internship (worked for software startup company, 12) - worked on backend

Awards:

California All State Band - was top 3 in instrument in state in all state band, selected out of 2200+ auditions

County Honor Band (selected out of 350+ players in county who auditioned, 1st part, which is the highest)

TSA TEAMs Engineering Competition Nationals Qualifier

PVSA Gold Award (250+ hours)

FTC 3rd at State Championships (160+ teams in region) - served as programming lead

Google Kickstart (Top 15% Internationally)

Google Code Jam (R1 Qualifier, finished at top 20% internationally)

2

Your music EC will be considered an EC that you are passionate about. It won’t be held against you that you like both music and electrical engineering. Nor do I think it’s that unusual, as math and music talent often happens together. For example, the music clubs at MIT are very active.

Looking over your profile, you appear to be in the large pool of qualified but unhooked applicants that apply to the HYPSMs. The odds of acceptance for unhooked applicants is considerably lower than the published acceptance rate, perhaps 40% lower.

My point in stating that is not to stop you from applying to the HYPSM level. Go ahead and apply, but also make sure you apply to a set of safety and match schools that you would be happy to attend. What schools do you have in mind at those levels?

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Your profile looks very strong, but as you point out there is a strong element of an anti-hook. The music related ECs are also strong. But if you get accepted to HYPSM it won’t be because of the music. None of these schools recruit students solely for music performance.

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You should submit a music supplement with a recording/video: it should be a solo performance preferably. As well as a music resume which includes the info you have posted here. And a letter or two of recommendation related to music (teacher, director).

Do you take lessons? Do you do any music consistently outside of school? Summer programs?

It doesn’t matter what your intended major is. These schools do not have BM degrees and music is an extracurricular. You don’t even have to plan on doing extracurricular music because music at the high school level involves hard work and discipline, attributes that are desirable.

I will caution you that many who submit a music supplement have been studying with a teacher for years, may attend conservatory prep, may have done summer programs, and won awards.

Congrats on all your achievements. Make sure you apply to a wide range of schools!

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I believe some music related recruitment does happen at HYPSM type schools if the school has an orchestra and the student fills holes that come up in the orchestra as previous members of the orchestra graduate and leave the school. But this is on an instrument by instrument basis, and therefore vary year by year, and hard to predict for any particular university unless you have deep inside knowledge of who will opening for the coming year. You need to apply EA to be considered seriously. For example, if you are a contra bassoonist on the national youth orchestra, you may have a place on an HYPSM orchestra.

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They don’t “recruit.” But high level music can definitely help with admissions.

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Not recruited. Musicians are just not recruited. But if needed and strong, music related ECs can help with admissions at some colleges.

However, having said that, there are a LOT of very strong musicians applying to HYPSM.

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8

What is your instrument? Top all state in California for an unusual instrument would probably be more of a boost than a common one in a state that has less instrumentalists.

9

I guess you are right about this. There is no explicit reaching out by the school. But I heard the music department does give names of candidates (based on who is on the NYO etc) to the ad com asking them not to miss these people if they apply. And after making offers, I heard people at the university personally follow up with the candidates that they are interested in. It is a hybrid situation.

10

Admissions will be pleased with your high achievement in marching band drum, in addition to your high academic achievement, academic ECs, and varsity sports, plus wind band, plus orchestra, plus jazz band. Honestly, how did you DO this?

You do have a shot at HYPSM. The music ECs look great, if they think that you’re going to participate in band and orchestra. Since you’re not a recruited athlete, and since your high academic achievement speaks for itself, I think that your music is could tip the scales for you. If you feel that it would help, you could submit two music supplements - one for each instrument.

I’m assuming that you’re going to apply to the UCs, to other T20s, and to slightly less selective schools that match your interests. Make sure that you choose your match and safety schools carefully, because despite your extraordinary and wide-ranging achievement, there’s a significant chance that you would not get into any T20 school, not because of anything that you could have done differently. Best of luck to you.

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I don’t think they do this very often. So many talented applicants.

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12

It depends on whether they care about that instrument or not. They don’t call for a violinist. They call for less popular instruments. I have heard of a small handful of cases.

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The fact that OP has pursued music shows passion. It is an EC, strong one, and that is about it.
Now if you want to be a serious musician then that’s a different matter altogether. AOs at top schools see way too many “double” majors in music and (add STEM). Exceptions are not the rule.
But if you truly stand out, like best in category at Essentially Ellington for jazz and or invited to play with a renowned musician after attending a summer intensive, then it is a different matter altogether.

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Strongly suggest posting on the music major forum if you have more questions.

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You have a pretty impressive profile, and have some great accomplishments - congratulations!

However, let me be pretty honest with you. You are a wealthy applicant from the Bay Area who is not a legacy or the kid of a potential mega-donor. HYPSM receive at least 30,000 or unhooked or low-level hooked (URM) applications from CA a year, and of these, maybe 600 will be accepted. Around half the applications (but fewer than half of the admissions) come from the Bay Area. Of these, maybe Without having a serious hook (athlete, legacy, or kid of donor), or having national recognition in something, your chances are already abysmal. Add to that the fact that a very large proportion of the unhooked applicants will be Asian.

In short, your chances at HYPSM are extremely low.

Now let’s talk about the fact that you want to study CS. That means that, whatever anybody tells you, Harvard and Yale are not top schools for CS, and Princeton in only good if you are interested in CS theory. So those three colleges should not even be on your radar. The only Ivy which is worth looking at for CS is Cornell.

In fact, I recommend that you go back and strategically plan you applications.

First question you should be asking yourself is not “will my family and friends be impressed by my acceptances?”, but “will this college provide me with what I need to succeed during and after college?”.

“HYPSM” is nothing more than an acronym for the colleges which are the most sought-after status symbols in the USA. “Applying to HYPSM” as an admissions strategy is like buying a car with the strategy of “what car will impress my neighbors?”, when you need a vehicle that take your family safely through heavy snowfall, or need a car that is reliable for city driving.

You are looking to study CS, which means that you should be focusing on college which are know for their CS programs. Then you need to see which colleges provide the type of educational experience which is the best for you - large vibrant colleges, small, more intimate colleges, or something in between.

You need to be looking at places like your own in-State Berkeley and UCLA, which are both better at undergraduate CS than Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. Look at CMU, look at GTech, at UIUC, at U Washington. Again, Princeton is good for CS theory, if that interests you, but Cornell is the best Ivy for CS. Look at Purdue, look at U Michigan, look at UT Austin. Forget about Harvard and Yale.

For smaller colleges, look at Caltech or Harvey Mudd.

Remember, though, that acceptance rates are extremely low for all of these, and even students with profiles like your can be rejected from all of these colleges. So find great colleges for CS with higher acceptance rates, at which you will be happy, since there is a very good chance that you will be attending one of them.

Your goal should not be “Admission to HYPSM”. Your goal should be “studying CS at a college which will provide be with what I need to succeed in college, and to help my career”.

You need to be focused on where you will be when you graduate college and start you life as an adult, not on the one moment when you are accepted to a college.

Here is another bit of honesty - no matter what college you attend, you will almost certainly do very well in life. You are smart, talented, and, based on your profile, incredibly hard working, and focused. That is a recipe for success in life, especially in your choice of field.

Good luck!!

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16

Brown CS is pretty good. Generally state universities have good CS, with competitive admissions.

In-school music and all state are wonderful and will help admissions but as I wrote before, you need to understand the level of talent and accomplishment of other applicants at those top schools.

We are not clear on your intended major or if you want double major, dual degree, major/minor, or CS with extracurricular music.

There are many different paths. And sooo many great schools. Try to find the best fit, not the best prestige, as everyone often puts it here.

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The marching band at Princeton does play quite an active role on campus and participation is by audition (quite fierce, I heard); I don’t know if your music EC might yield a bonus point for your or not there. Cast your net wider for potential major(s), for example, Operations Research and Financial Engineering (ORFE), one of the most popular undergraduate majors at Princeton might overlap with your interest in Computer Science. Essays are of utmost importance as most of your competitors will have lists of achievements similar to yours.

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Sample of one…class Val, excellent SAT scores, drum major of large high school band….also excellent instrumental musician, ECs were also outstanding. This was in 2002. Student was not accepted to any Ivies…but did receive a great scholarship to an OOS flagship university.

Yes, you have some terrific accomplishments. Please don’t think I’m say that isn’t the case. But fact is…many others applying to these schools will be equally accomplished.

Just make sure you have a well balanced application list…not all top elite colleges.

My younger kid was TOP (not top 3….kid was number 1) on an “endangered orchestra instrument”. Kid got accepted to the schools of choice…and also had had trial lessons on this instrument as well as correspondences with the orchestra director and music department chair. They were helpful…and I would suggest you reach out at your colleges as well. At the end…they were very clear that they had absolutely NO impact on admissions…and the school needed an instrumentalist on this instrument.

So…like I said…please please don’t have just a top heavy list of schools.

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my worry is that i’ll seem unfocused. after reading the former stanford ao’s AMA here, it seems like you gotta show that you’re a great scholar and tel through your activities why you want to major in something.

for safety schools, i’m doing all 9 UCs, as well as a few CSUs + less selective privates + some OOS publics

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yeah my main question isn’t about music recruitment. its whether or not its not optimal spending so much time on something not related to EE/CS. i don’t want to come off as unfocused. and i also heard that you have to tell a compelling story why you’re majoring in something with your ECs