How's my Strategy?

College Search & Selection
21

Would you guys suggest something like this for me?:
7 dreams
3 reaches

Then 3 reaches and 2 safeties in Canada? Keep in mind that I would likely be more happy at the schools in Canada than in the states. I could always go to graduate school, like someone else mentioned.

Just to clarify, I am not applying to these schools simply for prestige or because they are the tippy tops. There are multiple reasons for this, which I think I mentioned in my first thread but will repeat here:

  1. I could find the schools that many of you are mentioning in Canada. It makes more sense to go to UBC, Waterloo, Queens, and others than something like Lehigh or Villanova or Northeastern.
  2. It's roughly five times more expensive to go to school in the states. Is it worth it for schools I don't love? I don't know, but I don't think so.
  3. These schools I plan on applying to have the best of the best programs and resources for me. I wouldn't even go to Princeton if I got excepted because it's not a good school for me and what I want to do.
  4. I would have to move countries, adjust to life in another country, and would have to see my family and friends only a few times a year-- and I would have to spend thousands of dollars and tens of hours just to get back home.

Considering all of these, I’m still doubtful that going to a school like Lehigh, Bucknell, Villanova, or UDub is going to be worth it for me. Especially considering I can get something very similar at home.

22

Honestly for you I think the single most important thing you could do is identify two true safeties. I do not know enough about Canadian colleges to know if those truly are safeties for you but based on your lack of understanding regarding American colleges, have some doubts on your level of optimism. If you only do one thing to help yourself, please get decent advice on which Canadian colleges are safeties for you based on your real, achieved stats (not projected, hoped for or future stats.)

Do you have a resource for where you can get help determining which two Canadian colleges would be solid, true safeties for you? What is that resource and how reliable is it?

23

Well, you’re not going to get “excepted” into any school. And it’s highly unlikely that you will get “accepted” into any of your reach schools in the US. You make it sound like it would be a slam dunk for you to go to Villanova, Bucknell, Lehigh etc when in fact those would all be very high reaches for you as well. I’m hoping you me Canadian options are actual true matches or safeties because you seem to have a very skewed image of your accomplishments. Good luck!

Just out of curiousity, how did you visit all these schools if you are from a remote village in Canada where it takes tens of hours to get to schools in the states? And especially if you have no one supporting you in this journey? Did you make all these trips on your own? How did you travel from school to school as you are too young to rent a car or book a hotel room.

24

Northeastern is as big a reach as the others imho based on your story.

Which is fascinating and worthy of being told.

However a story without the nearly flawless academic backdrop will unfortunately go unheard.

You are competing not against the US best. You are fighting for sliver of the stated percentages in the international pool. It’s a daunting prospect even for those with clearly and easily understood academic prowess. Also, the Indian student with no resources and the hour long bike ride to school each day is a pretty interesting story as well.

Babson as I mentioned previously may be your best shot. If you can demonstrate entrepreneurial energy and not a story of woe. Poor little rich kid is pretty out of step with the focus areas within admissions ethos these days.

If you are incredibly wealthy that would perhaps move the dial, if your family’s ”family office” reaches out to development. Maybe the NU.in or a spring admit. Perhaps Babson would give you a full read.

That’s my best advice. If you were me (and you’re not of course). I would do all that I could to try and make the grade at UT or Magill. But that may prove to be incredibly difficult. @TomSrOfBoston could advise you on CA options outside of your guaranteed provincial option.

25

How do you know what other online students are doing? I think you’re making assumptions that aren’t true. Being self-directed as a homeschooler is the norm. If you lead with the assumption that they aren’t or are incapable of following through in an attempt to make yourself look good I think it will backfire on you.

26

I think you have a decent chance at Babson and Notre Dame. The rest are likely unrealistic given the profile you shared.

27

“Honestly for you I think the single most important thing you could do is identify two true safeties. I do not know enough about Canadian colleges to know if those truly are safeties for you but based on your lack of understanding regarding American colleges, have some doubts on your level of optimism. If you only do one thing to help yourself, please get decent advice on which Canadian colleges are safeties for you based on your real, achieved stats (not projected, hoped for or future stats.)”

Guaranteed admission in home province. Home province with 80 acceptance rate, and some others with north of 70% acceptance rate where I am far and above the stats required. I’d be fine at these schools.

“because you seem to have a very skewed image of your accomplishments”

I’ve been getting that a lot lately but I still don’t really know why. I can’t even count the amount of times that i’ve said “my chances are extremely small” and “i don’t mind if it’s a 1% chance.”

" “excepted” into any school. And it’s highly unlikely that you will get “accepted” "

aha it’s been a long day.

“Just out of curiousity, how did you visit all these schools if you are from a remote village in Canada where it takes tens of hours to get to schools in the states? And especially if you have no one supporting you in this journey? Did you make all these trips on your own? How did you travel from school to school as you are too young to rent a car or book a hotel room.”

By plane and car transportation. I never said I had no financial support. I wouldn’t be in school without financial support. I meant to say that I have nobody with any knowledge at all about any of this, not that my parents didn’t want me to succeed. Poor wording on my part.

“ould do all that I could to try and make the grade at UT or Magill. But that may prove to be incredibly difficult. @TomSrOfBoston could advise you on CA options outside of your guaranteed provincial option.”
I appreciate the suggestion but I’m pretty set when it comes to my schools in Canada. I think I have a good range and there are some awesome programs here. I truly expect to be here come next fall, but I want to try because I absolutely love some of these schools.

“If you can demonstrate entrepreneurial energy and not a story of woe”

Gotcha. I definitely don’t want to talk about any woes (this was brought up from an old thread of mine where I was trying to explain my situation, I never intended to make my application about my weak ‘hardship’)

If I didn’t quote something you said, I assure you that I read it. I just don’t have anything to say about it right now.

28

As long as you have your safeties lined up apply where you want. Just try to have a realistic view of your chances. If you truly feel you’ll regret the last 6 years if you don’t get in to a super reach in the US maybe you should talk to a counselor.

29

I just deleted seven paragraphs because I realized that I’m just wasting people’s time at this point.

I’m sorry I couldn’t make this easier. I assure you, my expectations are below the floor when it comes to the schools in the states. But I’ll be danged if I don’t give it a shot. Using Brown as an example: There is nothing I’ve ever wanted more in my life. The courses I can take, the unique behavioral decision sciences major, the open curriculum, the entrepreneurial focus, the people whom I think I would become best friends with, the location, everything. I feel a similar (not to the same extent, though) way about most of the schools I originally listed. I want to try. That’s all. I won’t qualify it anymore, because whenever I try to justify why I am doing something, it turns out to be a bad reason.

30

OP- I get it, honestly I do. I went to Brown, and I loved it. But I was accepted at a time when admissions rates were much higher, so I fully accept that my stats wouldn’t get me in there today. I think I’m still pretty special-- so my “back story” hasn’t changed but sad to say- Brown is primarily an educational institution, and so the stats are pretty important in screening out the thousands of applicants with tremendous personal stories. I have met some incredible young people during my Brown interviewing, and I am always so crushed to learn which awesome kids didn’t get accepted. And when I’m on campus (which I am frequently) I sometimes meet current students and think “You’re not so special”.

But guess what? The kids who get rejected don’t get rejected from Brown and end up at their local hair styling school (not that there’s anything wrong with that if you are interested in hair as a career). They end up at some equally fine places- perhaps with better admissions odds, sometimes further from home and sometimes closer; they end up majoring in something cool and fabulous, maybe with a different name but covering the same content.

Brown is and was a great place. And I am an active alum and am on campus frequently for various meetings and conferences and events. But I honestly could not tell you that there is a single program which you could not replicate somewhere else. Not a single one. Sometimes it’s a little easier at Brown because with a stroke of a key (or a pen back in my day) the administration can help you do something that requires a little more legwork at a bigger university. Sometimes the nomenclature is nicer at Brown (they do have catchy names for some of the interdisciplinary programs). But truly- you want to major in psychology/cog sci with a strong dose of applied math, econ and big data? I don’t know a single research university in the US where you cannot do that. You want to major in linguistics with a heavy emphasis on brain development and decision making and how language develops in different cultures and at different times? That’s a skootch harder because not every university has a linguistics faculty up to the challenge- but trust me, there are at least 100 universities in the US where you can do that. And about 90 of them are easier to get into than Brown, and the programs are every bit as rigorous and challenging and fun.

The PLME med program is somewhat unique- but that’s not of interest to you, and I can tell you that the stats required to get into that program are off the charts. The only way to make sure that a 18 year old kid is going to make it through to become an MD (which is a very labor intensive and expensive education) is to cull the pile and select the kids whose ambition and ability to stick to a plan and excel was evident by the 8th grade. No joke. This is not a program for a late bloomer, however talented and smart.

What’s my point? Your education is a marathon, not a sprint. Don’t burn out too early by picking “the one”, so that anything else feels like sloppy seconds. No matter where you end up, you’re going to have a bad day in late October of Freshman year and feel like you made a mistake (everyone does). It will be rainy and cold, and your favorite professor is going out on medical leave, leaving a colleague who isn’t nearly as fun and witty to take over the class, and you just got a C on a paper you slaved over and you are wondering “what am I doing here?”.

This is life. There is no perfect college. You like your Canadian backups, your parents can afford to have you fling a few “what if” applications out into the universe, spend this year enjoying being at home because I suspect you won’t be spending much time there for the next ten years or so.

31

oh I can quote now, I forgot!

This is just based on my experience of talking to teachers and other students. I believe the only assumption I made there was that many fall behind and buy extensions, which is true at my school. I should have been more specific. Regardless, I think that online school has an undeserved, really bad rep.

The sad part is I don’t really have anyone to talk to about this. My counselor isn’t too much help with this stuff. I know my chances (not denying anything anyone is saying regarding that), but I also know that I don’t feel any excitement about American schools other than what’s on that list (and some like Chapman, but not worth the cost, hence why all those schools are really good).

I really appreciate the response. Super helpful!

I just have a few questions/thoughts, but I promise you I’ve saved this response and will take it seriously to heart.

I found the BDS major to be unique as it fits within the Brown curriculum. What I mean by that is I can major in something where I can better understand human behavior (specifically decisions) and relate that to a variety of different fields that I would also be studying. For example, I could do BDS with a double track in Psych and Econ while also taking a ton of courses relating to different fields of interest, such as sports, investing, management, product design, etc. Additionally, since I want to go into a specific field (don’t really want to mention it here, just because I’ve mentioned so much already), I could take every course I need to essentially gain expertise in the field I want to go into. I’ve looked around and found some that come close to the academic experience at Brown, but none have beat out that core curriculum paired with the major and entrepreneurship focus. Even if they did, I have a feeling I would have to sacrifice one of the many things I love with Brown. But anyway, I feel like I’m getting off-topic with a Brown love speech, so let me move forward :wink:

I’ll be sure to enjoy my time with my family. We’re really close so I’m sure it’ll be a good last year here. Though they would gladly send me anywhere to school, I don’t feel like spending all that money for a college experience that I can get in my home country for a quarter of the price is right of me.

I guess I can summarize my response by saying that I will put everything I can into (not literally) into my app and pray for the best. I’ll be in utter shock if I get an acceptance letter, but it’d be the best news of my life. I would be happy going to a safety school in my home province. The reality is, my life is great and I can’t complain if I don’t get more out of it. Continuing my time with my family and friends would be amazing :wink: I just can’t help but try my best at getting into a place where I would cry if I got accepted.

Honestly. Thank you, so much.

32

@DWM1967 “I think you have a decent chance at Babson and Notre Dame”

What do you base this on given that Notre Dame’s most recent class has mid ACTs of 33-35, only 7% international, has a very strong EC and community service culture (44% captains of a varsity sport and 25% Headed a Major HS student organization), and ND explicitly suggests 3-4 years of a foreign language?

Most importantly they also advise home school students of the following:
“In addition to our standard application requirements, we recommend that applicants who are enrolled in a home-school curriculum submit SAT Subject Test scores. Tests in the areas of history, foreign language, and science can be particularly helpful.”

All of these “recommendations” aren’t really just suggestions at schools like Notre Dame unless there are extenuating circumstances.

OP has neither taken AP exams or subject tests, nor does he have any notable ECs, and is an international student with a 32 ACT and only 2 years of sign language. Not sure I understand your optimism for ND please elaborate…

33

I don’t get what the brouhaha here is. OP’s plan makes perfect sense to me and mirrors a lot of student’ except his matches and safeties are Canadian schools.

If he gets into certain schools that he has deemed worthy of the ~$75k price tag , then he’ll go. Otherwise, he stays in his much less expensive home country options. Exactly what many US kids do with their state schools being where they go if their lottery ticket schools don’t pan out, which is most of the time when said school have such low acceptance rates.

Many a parent has drawn such lines on for what they are willing to pay the big bucks. Not at all unusual to gladly shell out Ivy money but not for Patriot League schools, for example, going for instate options.

My kid’s friend, had the choices of the SUNYs, Cooper Union, commuting to NYU or Fordham or Ivy’s full freight or other schools with merit that brought the cost down to about $60k and that included the student paying $10k with loans and work, and saved 529 funds. The parents were willing to borrow or break into their retirement money for certain name schools and not others. That the OP’s main schools are the Canadian public’s instead of the US ones, doesn’t make a huge difference in terms of strategy. It’s the same basic idea

34

I think the problem with your strategy is that odds are high you won’t get into any US school. You’ll get into the Canadian schools - and you’re right, there are a lot of them which are excellent and a great value for you - but everyone will ask how things turned out with the US schools. In addition, don’t underestimate how awful it is to get rejection after rejection from colleges you find ideal for you. For these two reasons, I’d advise you apply to 2 US universities you are pretty sure you’ll get into, preferably one with rolling admissions. NOT because you’ll attend but because it’ll help answering the questions from random people (most of whom won’t know whether, say, Chapman is truly of interest or not) and in softening the ultimate plain of getting rejected. To be clear: you’d apply just to get in, not because you’d be going.
I’ve seen your strategy a lot from bright international students and adding these two universities makes a lot of difference.
You apply to UDub and Chapman. Hopefully you get into one of them or even both of them. It cushions the blows and helps socially. (Even if no one can help you, trust me, suddenly it’ll be everybody’s business that you applied to the US and got in or didn’t.)

35

I disagree. Apply to them all, and if you come up empty, you still have good options. Learning to deal with rejection is an important skill for this generation, and this is not a bad place to start. I don’t think we do kids any favors by sheltering them from rejection-They will likely face far more in the competition for internships, jobs, etc, and it is good to learn to take it in stride and persevere. Don’t waste money applying to places you won’t attend.

36

I believe Wayne Gretzky once said “you miss 100% of shots that you don’t take.”

37

@sushiritto "I believe Wayne Gretzky once said “you miss 100% of shots that you don’t take.”

That philosophy is appropriate when your Wayne Gretzky. Unfortunately that approach by lesser players has produced more Tim Hortons cashiers throughout Canada than NHL players ?

As it applies to the OP I fear he may inadvertently self select (declined at all US reaches) solely to wind up with Canadian options and at a later date regret not having pursued some more attainable but great options in the US. Again the OP is blessed with the financial flexibility and academic record to have options. Hate to see a door closed prematurely.

38

I’m firm believer in the philosophy. Used it all my life and passed it along to my kids. I did OK. All these universities can do is say no.

I had to look up who Tim Horton was, since I’m not a big hockey fan. Twenty-four seasons in the NHL. That ain’t too bad. Horton must have taken a fews shots in his career. :smile:

39

These colleges don’t care one whit what’s best for you. They don’t choose admits based on that. They care about what’s best for THEM. And that’s the proven ability to match their expectations in academics and ECs, and thinking.

This “thinking” I refer to is not the quality of writing or topic. It’s the rationale that shows- in ways, the very opposite of dreaming.

40

@cptofthehouse
I have to say, I kind of agree. I’ve had tens of people tell me that applying to schools in the US isn’t worth it at all because of the cost that could instead be put to something like a house or graduate school. I’m having trouble figuring out why that advice seems to have changed so much. Is it because the perception of my family wealth has changed? This cost isn’t cheap for any family. I’m not living in some mansion :wink:

Also, to clarify something, they can pay and have offered. I just know the financials and don’t think it’s right of me to take 400k from them for an education I can get for <100k. It doesn’t make sense.

@sushiritto
In Canada, we have a food chain called Tim Hortons. It’s pretty much on every corner, like Dunkin Donuts for Canada. Stereotypically enough, it was named after a hockey player, whom you are referring to. NoCreativity was talking about someone working at the restaurant.

Regardless, I am a firm believer in this quote. If I didn’t believe in that, I wouldn’t be on this forum today because I would have dropped out of high school.

@MYOS1634
That sounds like an excellent strategy. Thank you for the suggestion. I never thought about that-- I would pretty much have to tell my entire family and friends that I didn’t get into any school in the states. Chapman and UDub are still difficult to get into, so I might throw in a UofMinnesota or something of the sorts.

@roycroftmom
I appreciate that. I think I’ll apply to two or three schools that I should get into. I have the money to apply to as many schools as I want, and I do love some of these schools. Also, I never know when a family business venture will take off or something like that-- paying tuition in a year from now might be a lot different than paying for it now, so there is still a chance I go to one of these schools.