HS Senior Year Rigor, How Important?

Parents Forum
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D18 is putting together her senior year class schedule right now. She’s not planning on applying to elite colleges like the Ivys, UChicago, etc. Her current favorite is USC (Southern Cal). Technically, she only needs US History and Literature to graduate. Her HS lets seniors leave up to two hours earlier than other students and many/most do that. She has taken four AP classes (AP Bio, AP Calc AB, AP CS Principles, and AP Chem) and has an overall unweighted GPA of 4.0. She’s doing great even though she hasn’t been terribly happy in HS.

D18’s concerned about maintaining rigor in her senior year schedule. She thinks she needs to take at least three AP classes to look good on her college app (to give her seven total APs in HS). The thing is, she’s already going to take a couple of fairly rigorous and special, but non-AP, classes. I guess she’s also concerned about getting her weighted GPA higher with extra APs. Anyway, here’s her definitely-going-to-take class list so far:

  1. US History (required, taking it online)
  2. AP Lit (required, taking it in school)
  3. Scientific Research II (lab aide plus more, very spiky in terms of workload)
  4. Biotech IV (basically, a class for her HS iGEM team)

The last two are the special classes. They aren’t AP but they definitely aren’t trivial (you have to apply to get admitted). We’ve heard that the iGEM team is a significant workload in the Fall semester, to the point that her friend, who’s an excellent student, had trouble keeping her grades up in other classes this Fall.

D18 wants to add AP Calc BC (just BC, she’s in AP Calc AB right now) and another AP.

She is a probable NMSF (SI:223), ACT 33, SAT 1480, so she has great stats. We think that’s enough. She doesn’t.

How important are the number of AP classes in a senior year and overall for college applications? She’d have five total AP classes for HS if she only took one AP class as a senior. Sounds like a low number compared to some stats I’ve read here and even for our StateU. But what about the special classes?

Would colleges discount her “special” classes? The iGEM team is a big deal and a lot of work. They go to the main competition in Boston/MIT during Halloween.

I expect serious senioritis next year. I don’t want a stressed out kid but I also don’t want her to be denied admission to her target colleges because she didn’t have enough rigor her senior year and overall.

Thanks

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Have her ask her HS GC what her current rigor would be considered and how that might change based on different classes. I personally think the special classes (if they are listed/explained in the HS profile) will be considered rigorous.

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@“Erin’s Dad” – unfortunately, she goes to a large public HS (3000+ kids). The GCs aren’t terribly helpful. They’re overloaded and basically always say, “more rigor, more rigor”.

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I think your daughter’s instincts are right. To keep all options open, keep the rigor in the curriculum at least through Fall semester. In Spring a lot of kids – no matter how academically committed they normally are – take at least a small breather in their academics. Let that be in the course selection, and not in the quality of work (grades).

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She can’t take AP US History? That was pretty standard fare in our high school.

On the other hand given that she looks like a STEM type kid I agree with her that Calc BC is obvious. It shouldn’t be that hard since many schools offer Calc BC directly from pre-Calc instead having you do a year of AB. Calc BC covers one semester of college calc over an entire year.

The number of APs that rigorous enough is generally looked at within the context of the school. In our school STEM type kids aiming for the top schools would have at least 2 science APs, Calc BC (often 3 because there used to be a one year physics option without calculus). My oldest also took AP Comp Sci. Most would have at least one AP English course, APUSH and AP Econ or Gov. Many would have an AP language course. The more history English kids would do three years of AP history (World, US, Euro) along with 2 English APs and often an AP language. AP Psych, AP Environment were also popular. Anyway 7 or 8 APs was common, even with some post AP courses.

Fall senior year schedule should be rigorous.

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Have your daughter talk to teachers and former students of these programs to learn what kinds of course loads are typical for students at her level and what the outcomes are.

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I think it depends on what schools you are are targeting and whether you want to be considered for merit at schools that don’t give automatic merit for NMF status. For the tippy tops, you need top rigor. For the very selective, you still need top rigor. For merit at very good schools, you need top rigor.

If you plan on a STEM major, Calc BC should be taken. Somebody may see Calc AB on the transcript Junior year and wonder why the student didn’t continue on with Calc BC.

We went through this same issue last year when our D was a Junior. At the time I didn’t know about Senior year course rigor. Luckily, we attended a seminar given by Peter Van Buskirk and he advised this as something to be sure we paid close attention to (and recommended taking the most rigorous load that made sense for our D).

My D ended up taking an even tougher course load senior year than she had Junior year (5 APs and one Science Research Seminar). She managed to keep her straight As in her first semester senior year and is planning the same for second semester as well.

For top students, I think lots of APs are expected.

I’m sure you’ll get differing views from others, but this is my personal opinion: If you think your D can handle it, (it sounds like she can) take the toughest course load your school offers and do very well in them.

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@droppedit, is she planning the rigorous course load because she WANTS to or because she thinks she HAS to? The student’s own drive and motivation make a huge difference. My S18 is taking six APs this year because he wanted to, and although it’s a lot of work he is doing fine. He’s also planning to take at least five APs next year to “challenge his brain” as he says. Like your D, he’s also likely NMF and also not likely to apply to elites. His current top choice is UT Dallas which has a fantastic NMF package and honors program, and he definitely doesn’t need five or six more APs to get in there. He just really really wants to challenge himself, plus all his friends will be taking a similar course load. I think he also wants to keep his options open in case he does decide to apply to MIT or Caltech or other elites. I understand your concern about senioritis and not wanting your D to get too stressed; I feel the same way about my S. I’d say really try to understand your D’s motivations for her planned courses; if she knows what she’s getting into and wants to do it, she’s much more likely to succeed than if she’s feeling forced to take a more rigorous schedule than she wants. On the other hand if she’s feeling external pressure instead of internal drive, you might try talking her down from the most rigorous schedule.

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I do alumni interviews…I saw a student think they were getting somewhere by taking Dual Enrollment classes (like Psychology, Sociology) and thinking “Hey! College classes! That is impressive” but they were not taking rigorous math and science classes so did not get in the private STEM oriented college I interview for.

I would suggest focusing on what she wants to major in.

So if it is STEM, consider how rigorous English and History to take. Maybe take AP Lit but just Honors History.
I would take Calc BC for sure.
Then I would see if she has taken Bio, Chem and Physics. If so, has she taken at least one of them AP?
If not take one. All the other STEM kids will have. If so, then maybe take another AP class that is easier like AP Psych or Economics. She should be able to get college credit for those easily.

If it is more lab science (Bio, Chem), then see if Calc 2 is a required class at colleges of interest. If not, take an AP science.

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@traveler98 – she definitely wants to take the four classes I listed (loves the AP Lit teacher), especially the Lab Aide and Biotech/iGEM. She also wants to take the AP Calc BC because she likes calc and her AP Calc AB teacher. It’s the other AP classes that are more of a “has to take” (for her resume) rather than true desire. She doesn’t want to take AP History and other non-science AP classes because she’s heard they’re filled with “busy work” rather than interesting stuff. She’s enough of a procrastinator as is, being disgruntled about a class would only make things worse. Like your son, I think she wants to keep her college options open (though she’d drop everything and go to USC right now if she had a chance).

@bopper – her current choice for a major is Cognitive Science. She took AP Bio in 10th grade and is taking AP Chem, AP Calc AB, and AP CS Principles right now. It looks like AP Psych might work considering her desired major. She brought up AP Physics (the ones with calculus). I think AP Calc BC is a done deal, so that’s two APs.

Thanks for the replies

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The best case for continuing to take a rigorous set of senior classes is for herself, not her applications. She wants to keep stimulating her mind and not suffer from boredom (anymore than she may already be doing). She wants to keep up her study habits and enhance her knowledge base for a rigorous college experience (again, to keep herself from being bored there). Encourage her to enjoy academic learning. I’m sure she does not struggle with theses classes and needs them to prevent boredom. Even if some AP classes are not stellar they may be better than her other choices.

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At my kids school you could either take AP Calc AB or BC but not both (BC incorporates the content of AB so the HS didn’t give double credit for repeating material). She may need to check on that.

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I would make sure she has taken some level of Physics for sure.

But I agree you need to balance Rigor vs. time needed for college applications process and senioritis.

So go as rigorous as you can in your major type classes and go easier in the others.

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Senior year is also the time to indulge in classes one may never take in college. Perhaps there’s an art, music or other class she wants to experience without worrying about her gpa. Strong students do not need to lighten their load to manage college applications.

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@blossom – that’s what I thought as well (you either take AB or BC, not both). Just going by what D18 says she heard from her teacher. I’ll look into it some more and reply back.

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@droppedit, I don’t know about every school of course, but in my S’s school it’s quite common (maybe fifty students per class out of ~750 total) for students to take both AB and BC calc. In fact very few students are advised to go from pre-calc to AP Calc BC. As it was explained to me, they feel they’re making sure the students are extra-prepared for advanced college math if they take both instead of just BC. I’m not saying that is my opinion, just what I was told. If your D was told by her math teacher that this is an acceptable progression it’s probably correct info.

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@blossom @traveler98 – Ok, at D18’s school there is AP Calc AB and AP Calc AB/BC. The AB class is one hour a day. The AB/BC class is two hours a day (a “block” class). Basically, it’s AB the first semester and BC the second semester. Next year they’re going add a full year, one-hour-a-day BC class. D18 says that the people she knows in AB/BC this year are struggling.

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We just went to an information session at UVa. (I don’t know how UVa compares to USC regarding selectivity.) They said that academic rigor senior year was very important. In fact, the type of classes students take can edge out GPA as the most important factor for consideration, as admissions officers know that students can get straight As with an easy load, while other students who take more rigorous courses and get a couple of Bs might be better prepared for college work. Also, your daughter’s guidance counselor will submit a form with a check/x-mark by the statement that most accurately reflects the rigor of classes she’s taking senior year. (A version is on the Common App.) It’s an easy way for admissions staff to evaluate quickly one’s GPA against the selected course work within that particular high school.

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@droppedit, so she’s considering taking the new one-hour-per-day BC course? If she likes math it might be a very good choice for her. Fall semester will be a bit of AB review and not a time suck while she’s doing college applications, and then spring semester should be new material. If she’s thinking of AP credit, many colleges do award more math credits for BC than for AB, for example a college might award 101 credit for AB but 101 AND 102 credit for BC. So it’s not a waste to take BC after AB. As I mentioned S’s school generally does that for the high level math students and I’ve never heard seniors or their parents complaining about being bored in BC. I think they’re grateful for the breathing room during fall semester actually, and all the AB concepts get really reinforced.

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@traveler98 – yes, she wants to take the new one-hour-per-day BC class. About liking math, she hadn’t liked math since MS and then a few months into AB she suddenly stated she liked math again (specifically, calculus, even though she’s barely maintaining an A average). I was like, “who are you and what have you done with my disgruntled daughter?”. After reading your latest reply I think I’ll get onboard with BC next year. She loves her PreCalc/AB teacher and that teacher will do the BC class, so the fit couldn’t be better.

I guess I need to give up on my anti-rigor jihad.