<p>Thanks for pointing out that corporate relationship!</p>
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<p>I understand the point you’re making here. Would the Telluride people not accept a copy of the PSAT score from the student, especially since I believe they acquire the list of the high scoring PSAT directly from the The College Board?</p>
<p>Okay maybe TASP is not the example to use here since they purchase the scores/contact info from TCB, but what about other elite summer programs that are not by invitation from a CB mailing list? </p>
<p>My bigger point is that self-reports are not viewed as quite so trustworthy. There are always those rare reports about kids who faked some piece of their application to get admitted somewhere…</p>
<p>Proxy, again I understand your point. Also I wasn’t trying to be cute with the TASP example. In my family, the experience has been that scholarship organizations have been very liberal in accepting what … existed and often operated entirely on trust. While forgeries are always possible, it would require a pretty extensive effort to build an entire portfolio of documents that are believable. I know it is possible for a brilliant student to bomb the PSAT and have stellar scores, but the chance that this would not be flagged through the other parts of the application, especially through LORs is rather small. </p>
<p>This said, I gladly admit that my focus was almost exclusively on … college applications.</p>
<p>Bay - no FERPA waiver - not at either high school - public or private. At both schools, the kids and their parents sign transcript release forms, but they sign absolutely nothing in regards to Naviance - I’ve really never thought about that before. But again, at least with the 2 hs I am familiar with - Naviance is used primarily as a tool for the kids themselves and their parents to aid in the college process and secondarily, for the hs to generate a matriculation list and some average test score info. I still don’t see the big deal, but you have raised an interesting issue re there being nothing in writing as to how the Naviance info will be used.</p>
<p>My son did not sign anything for use of Naviance. As for the SAT scores on the transcripts, they are only there if you send them there. You fill out the high school info when you take the SAT. The fact of the matter is that most high school kids do not think about this one way or the other and don’t care enough to take steps to stop the info from going to the high school. Not a big priority item. That is the way it is done, and I don’t think it is wrong. That is your opinion. Now the PSAT score, I don’ t like that it is reported only to the high school. That, to me, is a problem. Why the heck are you so hot about the SAT score going to the high school and not the PSAT score? You don’ t even have a choice as whether that one goes to the school or not whereas you do with the SATs. If you have them sent to your hs, or to colleges, yes, they will enter the institutions’ data base, and they usually go on the official complete transcript of the student because that is where all test info goes on the student. I don’t see why you are saying this is wrong.</p>
<p>As I said several times on this thread, I don’t support compulsory release of test or personal information. But I do advocate student voluntarily releasing inf when it comes to Naviance type of info to the high school. Before I get all hot about where the hs puts that info that students VOLUNTARILY release to the hs, I would be more concerned about other things like the PSAT scores that do not go to the student and some CAtholic School tests that are also reported the same way. The SAT scores are used to compile stats about the school for appraisal, rating, and profile. If too many kids did not report the score, it would be to the detriment of those the students in the long run because the numbers on the profile and elsewhere would be too small of a sample to do anything with the figures. It’s difficult enough for those kids who go to most public high schools that are not well known to select colleges to get the adcom’s attention. With even less info, it could be even more of an issue. </p>
<p>I can tell you that those private schools that do so well with their kids going to select college give a lot of info to colleges during the admissions process. Often they already know who is accepted before the letter goes out, so close is the relationship. So such schools do get back the benefit of giving more info. Not the only, or the prime reason for their placement records, but it does make a difference in borderline cases. Too many kids stingy with their info is not going to make it easier for those kids from that highschool to get college info, the GC having accurate and enough data to help, and the colleges able to have a reliable school profile. It’s the higher performing students with a shot at the most selective schools that will be affected.</p>
<p>My HS does this, but for college scholarships instead of acceptances. We have to report the amount of merit aid given to us by every college we were accepted to, regardless of whether or not we’re going.
It could understand if it was used to gauge whether or not a particular student will get merit aid from a certain college, but no. They just want to add up all the numbers so they can post
“Our seniors got 11 bajillion dollars in scholarship money. :'DDDDDD” everywhere.</p>
<p>Jamaree, what if you do not report it? Do they check up on it? Do they make you sign a release allowing them to verify your claims? They may want the info and phrase their request as a demand, but I doubt that they can force every single kid to let the school know who offered them what. The college that started this whole thread had to back down on just getting the names of the colleges that accepted their kids.</p>
<p>My son’s school is also big on the “bajillion dollars in merit money” announcements and brags, and, yes, they do post that info as well as have it in their records. It is very helpful for the next crop of kids as they can see where classmates before them scored some decent scholarhip money. It does have value to have this info other than as a brag sheet item. </p>
<p>And I doubt all kids report the info. I know my son’s good friend who got into a number of schools with a number of merit awards did not report his info. I didn’t see several striking offers show up at all in the lists. All he told them was where he was going to go to college. And that was his prerogative to NOT to report the info. A shame because he got a generous award from the school of business of a school rarely seen on kids’ lists up here, Stetson U in FL, and I think that info could have really opened some possibilities for some kids. But it was his choice.</p>
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<p>Assuming your post is directed at me, allow me to clear up a misconception. Since the PSAT has a separate registration system and is handled by the schools, not much can be done to change the score reporting system. The issue is not that the school receives the individual results but that they INCLUDE them in the transcript. As you know, the school also receives a number of reports with the PSAT, and those are useful for the guidance officers. Now, onto the transcript issue. When it comes to the SAT, no problem should exist IF every GC in the nation would ONLY disclose the scores AFTER receiving a written consent from the student. In your opinion, is that what happens in our high schools? Not quite! Not only are the people in charge visibly caring very little about the individual privacyrights, they are also known to NOT respect direct requests for NOT attaching SAT scores onto transcripts. They do this because they think no parent would waste their time challenging them, or because they simply do not HAVE to pay much attention to parental requests … because the parents might need them down the road!</p>
<p>Hence, rather than fighting a uphill battle with uncaring administrators, why not go to the source? A simple step is to NOT mark the high school. A second simple step is to send a letter to The College Board requesting that NOT include your HS on the distribution list AND to put the high school on notice that the student EXPLICITLY refuse any disclosure of test scores. </p>
<p>So, here you have it! The issue is not that the school obtains the scores. As we know, most students and their parents do NOT have a problem with the school KNOWING the scores or even using them for GENERAL statistical purposes. The problem starts when the school decides to disclose information that is not theirs in the first place. Simply stated, that is NOT a choice they can make for a college applicant. College applications are the SOLE responsibility of the student (and their parents or guardians.)</p>
<p>I cannot be more clear: high schools should NOT be permitted to add a SINGLE test score to the transcripts, unless a SPECIFIC request is made by the student. And this is NOT a decision that “they” can make for the student!</p>
<p>The high schools have a vested interest in these scores. They keep track of them. For years. They include them in the school profile sent to colleges. If you are adept enough as an individual parent or student to find out this information (if not publicly available), you can actually obtain the averages for SAT/ACT scores school wide, statewide and even nationwide.</p>
<p>It should be protected information, but it is just another commodity that helps increase the school profile (pun, intended.)</p>
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<p>No. It is to illustrate that there are some student bodies, and student body families, that do engage amicably in the sharing of information, and also to illustrate (since I believe I had quoted rockvillemom) that there are a variety of different practices with regard to transcripts and scores, some being atypical, vs. what she reported.</p>
<p>Everyone at our school understands that generally, scores on the backs of transcripts have no official value to them. Ditto for the self-reported scores which most colleges ask the student to list anyway on their apps. (Ivies, U.C., probably Common App) And since we never heard about a single student sending transcripts (or asking transcripts to be sent) anywhere except to colleges to which they were applying (and which would be receiving the actual score reports), I’m not sure what they great horror and outrage is all about on this thread.</p>
<p>I’m with xiggi in that the SAT scores should not be on the student transcript (unless the student wants them to be). Yes, high schools need to get these test scores. I have NO NO NO problem with that. I want them to have the scores. Before score choice, I wouldn’t mind if these were on the transcript since the colleges will see them anyway (unless, I suppose if the student applies to a test optional college). But particularly with score choice, I don’t think the high school has the right to divulge all the scores when the student doesn’t intend to send score reports from every sitting to their colleges. </p>
<p>I think that every student should check their transcripts before they get sent to colleges. My kids did so and in fact, there were some errors that needed to be fixed on their transcripts (not to do with tests). As well, their transcripts had the test scores (though we did not mind as there was no score choice back then) but they had included the scores from 7th and 8th grade when they took the SAT for the Johns Hopkins Talent Search and we asked that those be removed from the transcripts that got sent to colleges and the school complied with that request. Middle school SAT scores were never meant for college admissions.</p>
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<p>Really? Are we still living in the time of the Bright Well-Rounded Kids and the omnipotent guidance counselors? Are the high-octane high schools of yesterday still delivering the “goods” because Mrs. GoodConnections is still there after forty years? </p>
<p>Or are the results traceable to the superior performance of the well-grromed children who did not face many hardships and received a superior education since they started walking? Andm by the way, are the high-octane schools with the great GCs still dominating the admission cycles? Haven’t the buzzwords in admissions in this century shifted to greater transparency and greater diversity, be it racially, economically, and … geographically. Do you really believe that the great GC of yesterday is still THAT powerful, and is not challenged by today’s computerized searches and organizations such as Questbridge? OR should we wonder where most of the dreaded deferred and waitlist letters are sent to? </p>
<p>While it IS undeniable that there are EXCEPTIONAL guidance counselors, the qualifier could not more apt … they are truly the exceptions. For every one of those amazing individuals, there are THOUSANDS of overworked and poorly supported and prepared counselors. At many schools, college applications is NOT the main job of a GC --keeping kids in school or alive is! </p>
<p>When it comes to college admissions, there are indeed parallel worlds only linked by occasional anecdotes. You do have the world of the best 20 to 100 high school in the country, and this next to the tens of thousands that are … simply there. Then you do have THIS world … the College Confidential world. Do parents come here because they have received all the answers they need at their latest college night? We know the answer to that. </p>
<p>Steinberg, Toor, Hughes, Hernandez … they all offered us clear glimpses of the relation between the high-powered GC and the admission officers. The old guard might still be present but their numbers are rapidly dwindling. Today’s world of admission is one of information … and little of this information is high school centric as EC, outside activities, summer classes, sports, art, individual research, etc., EASILY trump the high school transcripts. We no longer live in the 20th century! Students (and the magical elves known as loving parents) ARE reporting this information and manage their applications. Students who have to rely on their GC don’t fare all that well!</p>
<p>As far as GC’s finding out before the students, that SURELY did not happen in our house! Oh well, everyone is entitled to believe what they like to hear. It is, however, a fascinating tale.</p>
<p>It seems like it would be pretty easy for the SAT/ACT people to send scores to designated high schools without the student names attached. Then the schools would get what they want without compromising students’ privacy.</p>
<p>Bay, an obvious problem is that the SAT is no longer the sole domain of HS seniors. Many students are dealing with the TCB and ACT for most of their four years of HS. The typical HS would not have the resources to properly manage test scores from multiple years and classes.</p>
<p>Post 372:</p>
<p>Yes. I erred. The “era” I was referencing was the pre-score-choice era.</p>
<p>The interesting thing is that TCB does offer a summary report of PSAT scores to HSs, so they can see the range and the summary stats about each class that took it (as you know some schools offer the PSAT to sophomores too). I have no idea what HSs do with this report (ours probably recycles it). BUT if TCB can do this report for PSATs, I’m sure (for a price) they’d happily come up with a way to crunch those same stats for SATs. Who knows, maybe Naviance beat them to it or underpriced them on this service? And it could be provided without any individual student identifying information, to avoid the individual privacy concerns, yet give the HS what they need for their various reports. </p>
<p>But, back to score choice and HSs–it does bother me that CB reports all scores to the HS for every test-taking session–they should institute score choice for HS reports too. I don’t mind the HS seeing the higher scores (ours does NOT put scores on transcripts), mainly because kids’ grades all look the same (Lake Wobegon effect) and the HS admin/Guidance office does not necessarily know who the highly academically talented kids are (their choices for various opportunities and awards bears this out), so high scores might give them more of a clue (and maybe something more specific to write about in recommendation letters), but…I wish HSs would remove the lower ones from their files. My experience is that they try to keep every score they can in student records. Regardless, HSs only use the highest subscores on the SAT 1 on Naviance. They don’t use the AP or SAT 2 scores at all on Naviance. </p>
<p>Another practice in our HS is to require test scores, GPA, college matriculation, FAFSA, and merit/need award letter from the matriculating college for consideration for local merit and need-based scholarships. If student doesn’t provide this, they won’t be considered. It is optional, and many don’t submit anything, so don’t get anything. I question the need for FAFSA for merit awards. I believe many families don’t submit over privacy concerns. But this is how the HS gathers some data on the millions in total scholarships they like to brag about. They do NOT use this information to advise families looking for merit scholarships, although that would be a very helpful thing for some families. </p>
<p>And although they brag about the total in scholarships from colleges, they don’t distinguish between need-based vs. merit-based awards; they just add it all together, so their total is meaningless public relations fodder.</p>
<p>Oh, and, the aggregate SAT data, percentage of grads going to 2- and 4-year colleges, and other outcome data is required by some states’ DOEs as they use these to assess the quality of public school districts, and establish some kind of accountability on the part of districts. Somehow the HSs must obtain all of those stats–maybe they do get them from CB.</p>
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<p>Again, it seems that this info can easily be collected from students themselves, without student names attached.</p>