huge booty list of schools (narrow)

Parents Forum
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<p><strong><em>I posted this in the college search but I thought some of you might be able to provide me with useful info since some of your kids go to these places.</em></strong>*</p>

<p>I'm in need of some words of advice.</p>

<p>I have a huge booty list of schools (some I have not included) and I'm having dreat trouble narrowing them down. I have done research on the majority of them but I was just interesed in the opinions of the general public.</p>

<p>--Which of the following schools do you believe have a great science AND math program (the math program does not have to be extraordinary but it has to be good).
--Also in a COUPLE (I don't want extensice details at the moment) of words describe the social athmosphere at each school and and in A COUPLE more words the overall physical athmosphere.
--Thanks a buncho.</p>

<p>U of Rochester
Emory
Duke
U of North Carolina
HOpkins
Boston University
Occidental
Vassar
Swarthmore
Harvey Mudd
Vassar
Rice
Macalester</p>

<p>Thanks
"University of Chicago: If it were easy, it would be your mom."</p>

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<p>Interesting list. I can think of things to like about all of those schools. BU is the only one that doesn't really rock my boat, but that's only because it lacks the self-contained campus that I would tend to favor.</p>

<p>The most "academically-oriented" schools on your list are:</p>

<p>Mudd
Swarthmore
Rice
Hopkins</p>

<p>By that, I do not mean that the other schools aren't excellent, but that these four are places where professors push hard and the students expect it. I wouldn't consider any of the four unless you expect to work hard in college. </p>

<p>These are also the four schools that are most math/science oriented, at least in terms of math/science PhDs. Mudd, a pure math/science tech school, is obviously very lop-sided. Rice leans heavily math/science in terms of PhD production. It's hard to peg Swarthmore as leaning any particular direction -- it's very strong in social sciences, but also has a lot of emphasis on hard sciences and engineering.</p>

<p>Duke and Emory are the most pre-professional of the schools on your list, but are very different. Both produce more lawyers and MBAs than PhDs. Emory, to me, is synonomous with Atlanta. Booming sunbelt on a very fast growth curve. Maybe a little too "preppy, designer handbag" but a very positive campus atmosphere, a lot of diversity, and a wonderful location tightly integrated into the Atlanta community (business, CDC, etc.). </p>

<p>UNC-CH is, IMO, the quintessential public state university. Something for pretty much everybody. Has great collegiate atmostphere. I really liked it a lot. </p>

<p>I think the least "enjoyable" college experiences would probably be at Rochester and Hopkins. Poor Rochester, it's not the school's fault. It just happens to be in a place that is hell during the winter. Hopkins is notoriously not a "warm, fuzzy" place. </p>

<p>Rice and Swarthmore both generate lots of love from their students. They have the two highest per student endowments of the schools on your list and are extremely pleasant, comfy places. Of course, Houston and suburban Philly are quite different.</p>

<p>Vassar is pretty similar to Swarthmore in terms of its campus, but with an "artsier" tilt and without the hard-core academics. </p>

<p>I don't know Occidental, but it is incredibly diverse and has a great track record academically. I've heard nothing but good things about Macalaster, but just don't know it well enough to comment.</p>

<p>For your short descriptions, I can handle Swarthmore:</p>

<p>Socially: Academic/geeky, unpretentious style, very diverse with interaction among groups, uncommon sense of community, friendly. Strong social conscience traditions.</p>

<p>Physical: "Country-club" idyllic setting, surrounded by gardens and foliage. The campus is stunning. Small campus feel. Located in an old, tree-lined suburb, inside the beltway -- half a mile from a mall, 11 miles by train from campus to downtown Philly.</p>

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<p>Duke has a very strong math program. Some math superstars have attended, including Melanie Wood, IMO gold medalist. Two of my S's math chums are currently there.</p>

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<p>Marite:</p>

<p>Duke's math department must be relatively small compared to other departments or math majors must go into other fields, then. </p>

<p>Both Rice and Harvard produce 4 times more math PhDs per 1000 graduates. Harvey Mudd, as you would expect from a school where everyone majors in math/science, produces 10 times more math PhDs per 1000 grads.</p>

<p>Swarthmore would be fourth on his list, producing a little more the double the rate of math PhDs. </p>

<p>Hopkins, fifth, just slightly more than Duke and Vassar, which are tied, producing 3 math PhDs per 1000 graduates over the most recent ten year period.</p>

<p>If you look at the percentage of grads getting math/science/engineering PhDs combined, the order from his list would be:</p>

<p>Mudd 23.5% (second only to CalTech, more than MIT)
Rice 8.6%
Swarthmore 8.3%
Hopkins 6.0%
Rochester 4.3%
Duke 4.1%</p>

<p>Overall, Duke's pre-professional student body would be expected to get fewer PhDs. But, in math and sciences, that's a pretty common career track.</p>

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<p>Oxy has lovely campus, but check if they have enough math/physics corses to satisfy you.</p>

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<p>Again, PhD production does not prove proficiency or excellence in a field of study.</p>

<p>The Putnam Competition in Math may be a good way way to evaluate the quality of a school's math department and the quality of the math students that are attracted to a particular school. Some school's have consistently done very well.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.math.harvard.edu/putnam/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.math.harvard.edu/putnam/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Visited Macalester this summer.
Good science and math, engineer husband was not that impressed with science facilities.
Social atmostphere - if you're a minority or international, you're in good shape to get in with high scores/grades.
Physical atmosphere - academic and residential life seemed good. Just a bit chilly weather-wise.
Not sure of your interests/background. Daughter determined quickly it was not for her. Son had same vibe also. But that's just for them.</p>

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<p>Team competitions are fun and interesting, but may not be that informative when it comes to selecting a college. </p>

<p>For example, the North Carolina Tar Heels have a tradition of basketball excellence and won the national championship last year. That tells us that they recruit great basketball players and invest effort in a team competition. </p>

<p>It doesn't tell us much about the free-throw shooting abilities of the average Tar Heel student or whether there is a great deal of interest in free-throw shooting or careers in free-throw shooting among the student body as a whole.</p>

<p>I'm sure that Duke has excellent academic departments across the board, including math and science. However, of the schools the poster asked about, Duke doesn't stand out in terms of percentage of the overall student body pursuing terminal degree research/academic careers in those fields. The Duke grads who do pursue those kinds of careers are excellent; many are notable in their fields. There just aren't as many of them percentagewise.</p>

<p>Conversely, I'm sure that Harvey Mudd has turned out some fantastic corporate lawyers. But, percentagewise, they don't turn them out at as high a rate.</p>

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<p>Interesteddad:</p>

<p>The Putnam competition is in fact a good gauge of the excellence of a math department. Last year, Duke's team came in third (and Harvard was out of the top 5) thanks to some of its superstars.As important as top faculty are fellow students. Duke has been able to attract top math students thanks to generous scholarships. And I can vouch for the two I've met that they are as good as any I met through my S (currently at Caltech, Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Chicago, Harvey Mudd, Yale).
Most math majors do not go on to Ph.D.s in math. There are no academic jobs available in math. A lot of them go into actuarial careers. One former math major I know is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in linguistics.</p>

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<p>Yeah, but all those math people are crazy and they get the AB Duke Scholoarships.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the info. It was quite helpful.</p>

<p>I just wish to clarify that I like math but its not the thing that I want to go into. I like it enough that I wish to minor or major in it. That's why I asked regarding the this field.</p>