Huge EFC

Paying for College
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<p>BigKev, your story doesn’t really make sense. If your parents arrived with NOTHING, then they must have had about 30 years at the most to make that $90k EFC. So either, they have made a very good salary for most of those years and managed to save every penny OR they make an income, combined, of > $160k, which would, indeed, put them in the top 5% category. </p>

<p>And just because people seem to be doing much better than you, doesn’t mean they are. Different people have different priorities. We are NOT a one size fits all country.</p>

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<p>Very often, the answer is that the colleges give nothing. That was the case with my son’s top choice private college. They promised to meet full need for <em>most</em> of their students, but not all. They told my son they were out of money and offered to put him on a “wait list” for financial aid; my son opted for a far more generous 2nd choice college. </p>

<p>Again, the EFC is all about qualifying for federal aid, and the maximum federal aid in grants + student loans + work study would not be enough to allow any student, no matter how poor, to attend any private college. In many states, all that aid together isn’t even enough to meet the COA of the in-state publics. </p>

<p>Private colleges often use their endowment to fill the gap, but those that promise to “meet full need” NEVER mean that they will meet the FAFSA EFC – they mean that they will provide a combination of grants, loans, and/or work study to meet whatever they unilaterally decide the student “needs”, after they’ve had a good look at all the financial information that is left off the FAFSA – home equity, what a single mom’s ex-husband earns, what type of writeoffs a self-employed person has claimed on their taxes, etc.</p>

<p>I think the whole meeting-full-need / need-blind thing is b.s. anyway, because somehow those colleges manage to always spend roughly the same amount on financial aid from year to year, and have roughly the same percentage of students getting financial aid. No matter what they say about being need-blind, it’s relatively easy to guess what a student’s economic situation is from the other information in their application – the school they attended, their EC’s, etc. They use binding ED programs to fill a substantial percentage of their class with full pay students, and when they are considering applications they are probably not going to do any admissions favors for kids who obviously would need a lot of financial aid. Sure they will be happy to admit and subsidize a poor applicant who has some amazing accomplishments in academics or athletics to bring to the table – but again, its hard for students with limited financial means to develop the strongest credentials. So the admission policies themselves pretty much keep the overall number of needy students down. </p>

<p>In other words – Harvard is very generous with financial aid, but it’s tough to get into Harvard, and its easier for rich students to pay for the things that will enhance chances (years of music lessons, summers spent at academic enrichment camps, attendance at top high schools, private tutoring, etc.). </p>

<p>I think the one thing that all of us knowledgeable, financial-aid qualifying parents have in common is that we insisted that our kids apply to affordable colleges, usually in-state publics, even if we also allowed them to try their luck at private colleges. And that’s all it is – trying their luck – because a low EFC means that they might qualify for more aid, not that they will get it. But then again, a high GPA or test scores also means they might qualify for more aid, and my experience with my National Merit finalist son was that the merit thing was often more certain. I know for a fact that my son could have gone to CSU Long Beach free of charge, and they would have thrown in priority registration and free parking on top of that – they sent him a letter and told him that. I know for a fact that my son could have gone to Barrett Honors College at Arizona State with a full ride and a stipend of several thousand dollars on top of that. Unfortunately for me, my son didn’t want to attend those schools – but the point is that his hard work and achievements definitely had a clear cut payoff that didn’t require any sort of income qualifier. </p>

<p>Newfaith, you actually are in a pretty good position, since you seem to value religion over prestige in college selection (which I think is a good thing). Many Catholic universities that US News rankings would ignore or relegate to a lower “tier” have excellent reputations, and most offer varying degrees of merit-based aid to entering students. So your kids may very well end up in a wonderful college with a generous scholarship, one that happens to be based on their GPA instead of their EFC. But GPA is a lot easier to understand and control… I would have had a lot less stress over the years that my kids were in school if instead of fretting over submitting tax returns, explanatory letters, and at least 2 full sets of financial application documents every year, I could have known there was a set amount of money guaranteed with a specific GPA.</p>

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<p>combined, of > $160k, which would, indeed, put them in the top 5% category</p>

<p>Or above
BigKev has parents who make upwards of $250K, his parents just bought a second home in Florida ( they live in Wisconsin- I’d want someplace warmer too!), he drives a Lexus luxury suv- and colleges are not going to be giving hime need based finaid.
He will get an unsubsidized Stafford loan though.</p>

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<p>Whoa, how did you find out all that about me?</p>

<p>It’s like I have my own personal stalker. To be honest, I’m more honored than terrified, although it’s close.</p>

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<p>I am a college advisor it is my job. ;)</p>

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You forgot the part where he claims date rape is a scam brought up by feminists. </p>

<p>Perhaps BigKev will eventually have a home someplace warmer too :).</p>

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<p>Calmom- I went to Cal Long Beach and loved it. I have a brother in-law in Cypress who has offered D1 to come live with his family so she could go to either Long Beach or Fulerton(sp?). I also have a brother who lives in San Francisco with the same offer. If she chose San Francisco state she wouldn’t need a car since its only one half hour bus ride away. Both DH and I are natives of California but now live in MN after 11yrs in Texas. When I tell darling 14yr old of these wonderful offers she says “No way do I want to live in California, its too weird out there”. I just laugh because the girl is too young to realize what a great offer both these Uncles are making. Right now she is thinks she wants to go U of Minn at the Twin Cities but I want her to look around because I think that there are some other really good choices with a smaller population. Someone mentioned U of Minn at Morris and we will visit there sometime in the next 18months. We did visit U of Minn at Duluth and I loved it but daughter did not like Duluth. To be honest shes a bit young and speaking to her teachers needs a couple years before she’ll really start thinking of college. In the meantime I really push the GPA and making good choices socially. She keeps busy with sports and volunteer work. I had cancer 10yrs ago so everyday I’m healthy and my family is healthy is a blessing. While college is important its not the begining and end of everything.</p>

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<p>You forgot the part where he claims date rape is a scam brought up by feminists.</p>

<p>yes I saw that- but it didn’t apply to finaid- however I expect that attitude will come through in his applications.</p>

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<p>Yeah, emeraldkity that would make for a fascinating essay, eh? </p>

<p>Op, you say yourself that D is young - she’s only a freshman. Why such a push on the college thing? You have visited schools, picked a major… From here it seems like you are putting her under tremendous pressure. Is the fact that you are a cancer survivor maybe driving you to try to get everything set up for your children’s futures just in case? If so, that’s totally understandable, but for her sake you need to take a deep breath and chill. Visits can be made during her junior year, or in the summer before senior year when you are finalizing a college list. Applications are not done until fall senior year, after all.</p>

<p>I understand stressing the GPA and showing her what the possible rewards can be in terms of a future school - our sophomore DD has had the benefit of this lesson by virtue of DS’ college search. But other than pointing out that if she really thinks she wants to go OOS to UNC-Chapel Hill (her current pick), she has to have great grades, and encouraging her to explore a variety of subjects, we are not pushing anything beyond that. Hell, we have our hands full with DS and his plans!</p>

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<p>College financial aid is capitalism at its best.</p>

<p>Private donors make contributions, for which they receive tax deductions. The colleges then use the money to subsidize desireable students’ tuitions.</p>

<p>There is no government hand out (which the exception of Pell grants, which are very small in relation to private school tuition).</p>

<p>As George HW Bush said:
“I have spoken of a thousand points of light, of all the community organizations that are spread like stars throughout the Nation, doing good. We will work hand in hand, encouraging, sometimes leading, sometimes being led, rewarding.”</p>

<p>Anyone who compares the endowment/college grant system to “welfare” is uninformed.</p>

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<p>newfaith, 8.5 year survivor here. I hear you. My overarching goal since diagnosis has been to see my kids successfully launched. Your kids were clearly a lot younger than mine were (10 & 11) when you were ill. While it is early for her to be making a college list, it’s not too soon for you and your H to think about how to pay for it, and how generous that your family has offered to take her in for some of the CA schools!</p>

<p>What she’s interested in now and what kind of school she wants may be TOTALLY differnt by senior year. Heck, there are lots of kids here on CC who want a small school in the fall of senior year and a big flagship by the following year (or vice versa). I can’t tell you how many of S2’s friends have already changed their majors, and the first semester of college isn’t even finished yet!</p>

<p>Be well!</p>

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<p>newfaith:</p>

<p>I’m in MN, too.</p>

<p>PSEO classes can be an excellent way to reduce college costs, especially if your students eventually attend MN or WI public schools, which will give full credit for them. However be mindful that not all schools, especially out-of-state private ones, will extend credit for these courses (but will usually look favorably on them for admissions and placement considerations.) AP exams are more apt to be respected by these latter schools.</p>

<p>And don’t forget MN has reciprocity agreements with WI, ND, SD, and Manitoba. Some of their schools might either be a better fit or more financially viable than in-state schools.</p>

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<p>Newfaith…</p>

<p>I’m a Southern Cal native. I grew up about 10 minutes from Cal State Fullerton and my family still lives there. I went to UCI. If your D has a choice between UMinn-Twin Cities and a CSU, she should go with UMinn. </p>

<p>While CSUF and CSULB are considered the better CSUs, they do not provide the full campus experience that UMinn would. Both of those schools are still largely commuter/suitcase schools, which could be an issue for an OOS kid.</p>

<p>For the amount of money you’d pay for OOS rates, if your D has good stats, she could go elsewhere with merit.</p>

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<p>^I was wondering if OP was thinking her student would get instate rates if living with uncle.</p>

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<p>Newfaith… because of serious financial issues in California, the tuition at the CSU’s for in-staters keeps getting raised. So whatever offer is being made by your d’s uncles, you may find that it isn’t the bargain it once was – especially since the tuition increases are also accompanied by cut backs in the various college offerings. (Laying off faculty, eliminating departments, etc.). </p>

<p>Also, my son did not go to the CSU directly from high school – he transferred in later, and I remember he was required to submit paperwork to document residency. That was no problem – he had attended school for 2 years in NY, but he had lived and worked for 3 years after than in Calif, so clearly he was a state resident – but I’m thinking that your d. would need to do more than merely provide an current local address.</p>

<p>I really think that what you should do with your d. is sit down and tell her how much you think you will be able to contribute to college, when the time comes; let her know that you don’t think your family will qualify for need-based aid, so if the amount you contribute falls short, your d. will have to look for other options for financing, and you can discuss with her what some of those may be. I agree with others that it is too early to put too much focus on the details – I think the only thing important at this point is that she have a sense of what she will be able to expect from her parents, especially as she is attending a private high school and may simply assume that if you can fund that, you’ll be able to pay for any college she wants. (Keep in mind that youngsters tend not to pay much attention to their parent’s finances – unless you tell them, most kids have no clue what the parents’ monthly expenses are for mortgage payments or rent, insurance, utilities, food costs, etc. – and they may not have any idea what the tuition for their high school is or what colleges now cost or are likely to cost a few years down the line. I mean – they are kids, they’ve grown up with their parents simply providing for all the basics for them, so they can be pretty clueless about finances.)</p>

<p>As I’ve said, there may be plenty of excellent options for your d as long as she doesn’t get caught up in the whole prestige/ranking thing-- and certainly there are a variety of ways to help with funding. My son was very fortunate that when he transferred to his CSU, he was able to find a half time position with Americorps in the same community – the job helped him support himself in college, and entitled him to half the usual Americorps educational benefit – so that was a way to pick up a little more towards his college costs. </p>

<p>One advantage that students who are NOT receiving need based aid have is that they don’t run into the problem that their earnings undermine their financial aid. That’s what happened with my son – I was paying for him to attend a private college, with need-based aid-- when he told me after 2 years that he wanted to take a year off, I realized immediately that if he worked during that gap year, earning + saving money, we would take a huge hit in financial aid. Its a real flaw in the financial aid system and a catch-22 for young people, especially those age 23 and under who must still be counted as their parent’s dependents for financial aid purposes. A paying job is a really good way for a young person to help supplement their college fund. :)</p>

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<p>Shrinkrap- no D1 would not be considered a resident. I don’t think going to Calif is a good idea but I like D to know that she does have relatives that are thinking of her.</p>

<p>CalMom thanks again for the advice. I do have to be careful on pushing too much but on the other hand I want D1 to realize the value of setting goals and striving for them. At this point in the game I want her to realize how important her GPA is and not wait till shes a junior to put in her best effort. As far as her major, she has always dreamed of writing. English is by far her strongest class although this year as they concentrate less on creative writing she is not as in love with it. When she gets to college who knows if she’ll stay in an English major or change. I’m just trying to get her to see what is out there for her.</p>

<p>Our D2 daughter’s dream is to play pro-basketball. LOL Our son has wanted to be a Marine since he was about 4yrs old (hes 10 now). You never know what will happen but I believe in planning ahead and then if they fall thru going with the flow. This site is very helpful and hope to get more great ideas as the years go by.</p>

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<p>newfaith,</p>

<p>I think over the course of several days, I have read all the posts, but I haven’t seen MN-Morris mentioned. I think it would be worth looking into.</p>

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<p>The FAFSA calculations are ********, my EFC is more than the actual cost of almost any college. It does not take into account the region in which you are living. 200k household income in Santa Barbara is not rich, in Detroit or Colorado maybe, but not in Santa Barbara.</p>

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<p>^ The median household income for Santa Barbara is somewhere between $50-60K. You are in the top 5% of income earning families in the US. Even Yale and Harvard, the most lenient schools for need, don’t give any benes in that income range. You have nothing to complain about. Even someone with a 0 EFC will only get a max of ~ $10K in loans and grants. You have access to much more funding than that.</p>

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<p>200k household income in Santa Barbara is not rich, in Detroit or Colorado maybe, but not in Santa Barbara.</p>

<p>$200K may not " feel" well off in Santa Barbara but that is like saying, I live next door to Bill Gates & boy does my house feel small when I come home from one of his parties.</p>

<p>People whose income is 3x or 4x the national median, have more flexibility in location, than they like to admit.
Its fine to say that you are willing to pay more for housing & living expenses than you would to live in say, Albany, Mo., but don’t expect to get financial aid for college because of it.</p>